discreet Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 [b]How Did You Train Your Drummer?[/b] OK... A 'friend' of mine is in a 'band', and their 'drummer' is a lovely chap, turns up on time, learns the material, is technically proficient and has a very nice expensive new kit and transport. But he can't keep time. Not even for eight consecutive bars. He's all over the shop. Now the 'band' my 'friend' is in cannot afford the services of a pro drummer and would not want to go down this road particularly, but they are beginning to realise that they can't do their jobs to the best of their ability or even enjoy what they are doing if the drummer is unable to perform the most basic function that is required of him. The bass player in particular is sick of having to play the role of timekeeper and being made to look like a **** at gigs, when as is known, a halfway decent drummer makes all the difference. My friend's question is this: Have you had this problem, and what did you do about it? Can you train a drummer like you can train dogs, kids and spouses, i.e. by using a reward system? Or what? Thank you for reading... my 'friend' and his 'band' are very grateful to you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorick Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Click track......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 [quote name='yorick' timestamp='1326291021' post='1494976'] Click track......... [/quote] +1 or further, programme a drum machine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sixdegrees Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Find him a strict Catholic nymphomaniac girlfriend, who has a psychopathic over-protective father. That'll soon teach him a sense of rhythm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigAlonBass Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 It takes a little bit of work, and a receptive Drummer, but a Mechanical Metronome clipped to the front of the kit does the trick. We used this when we got a damn good Drummer (when the Band was playing) but if he had to start anything himself or do intricate fills, he was all over the place. The mechanical metronome was best, because he could see the arm movements, no matter how loud the Band was. We wrote out the B.P.M. on a bit of paper, which he had at the side of his kit, and all he had to do was lean forward and change the position of the weight for the relevant song. Six weeks later, he 'got it'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdwardHimself Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 He's got to want to learn really. I had a similar problem with a guitar player who couldn't keep in time very well. I told him he needed to work on it but he never ended up doing it. Maybe they should just say to him to work on his timing and if he doesn't start putting some practice in on that front then time to get a new one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike257 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1326290778' post='1494971'] is technically proficient ........But he can't keep time. [/quote] Your drummer is an oxymoron! Does he practice much away from your rehearsals? If something as basic as keeping steady time is evading him, then he needs to put some time in outside of your band activities to correct it really. Unfortunately being a drummer he's probably stuffed for practice time unless he has no neighbours, access to a rehearsal room, or an eleccy kit/practice pads. Metronome work as suggested would be good, and getting tempos together for your set and having him play to a click in rehearsals will also focus his attention on the timing. I guess the single most important thing is this - does he recognise that his timekeeping is poor? Unless he acknowledges and accepts it and is prepared to try and improve, you're on a hiding to nothing and I'd get the 'drummer wanted' posters up quick! EDIT: Eddy made the same point much more succinctly while I was rambling! Edited January 11, 2012 by mike257 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Low End Bee Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) Make sure he can hear you. Point your cab at his lug 'oles and make sure it's turned up. Emphasise the first beat of a bar by playing it a bit louder for him and nod and/or dip your headstock in his eye line at the same time. Don't follow him. Make him follow you. When he's done well give him a chocoloate drop and ruffle his hair whilst telling him hes a "Good boy"..... Edited January 11, 2012 by Low End Bee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomE Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Remove most of his drums and go back to basics. Snare, hi-hat, bass drum and couple of cymbals - its all you need to lay a groove. I think a click will only train him/her to play with a click. Also get him/her off the drums and just do some clapping to slow stuff. Really helps to develop a sense of timing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I'm not sure I'd spend time teaching a drummer how to keep time. it's something they should just 'know'. If they can't feel it, then... meh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezbass Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 All fine suggestions and if the tub thumber is receptive to 1) hearing that he's actually not doing his job & 2) willing to learn then all will bo sorted hopefully. However, the best solution is get another drummer who can actually play in time. Harsh but effective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monckyman Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Click.Or metronome. He must be aware of this as any recording will show it up. Make sure he realises that you are prepared to work for his benefit when it would be easier to get another more proficient player. Won`t take long to find out if he can improve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I'm on the other side of the fence here, he fits all the other stuff great so a bit of "training" would go down well and hopefully bring them all closer together Eye contact helps (had to do this with the singer recently) and being pedantic as hell about it, although what we found works even better is one on one practices. Bass and drums. None of the other crap, then he'll hopefully realise he's a bit out and tell you each time and ask to do it again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 A click might not work. IME when drummers change tempo it's because they played a note out of time and they've adjusted to that time - usually it's playing a note too late and then slowing down as a result. The drummers who speed up are very rare. With a click they'll still make the same mistakes but then they'll have to catch back up to the click so it just compounds the problem, leading to a bar or two of weird timing instead of just one event. Try to spot what it is that's throwing your drummer off. It'll probably be certain fills he plays - either get him to practise those more or play something different. Of course if he is just up and down all over the place with tempo and there's nothing in the music that is causing it, maybe he shouldn't be a drummer. I've never met any drummer that simply couldn't keep time at all though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor J Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1326290778' post='1494971'] [b]How Did You Train Your Drummer?[/b] OK... A 'friend' of mine is in a 'band', and their 'drummer' is a lovely chap, turns up on time, learns the material, is technically proficient and has a very nice expensive new kit and transport. But he can't keep time. Not even for eight consecutive bars. He's all over the shop. Now the 'band' my 'friend' is in cannot afford the services of a pro drummer and would not want to go down this road particularly, but they are beginning to realise that they can't do their jobs to the best of their ability or even enjoy what they are doing if the drummer is unable to perform the most basic function that is required of him. The bass player in particular is sick of having to play the role of timekeeper and being made to look like a **** at gigs, when as is known, a halfway decent drummer makes all the difference. My friend's question is this: Have you had this problem, and what did you do about it? Can you train a drummer like you can train dogs, kids and spouses, i.e. by using a reward system? Or what? Thank you for reading... my 'friend' and his 'band' are very grateful to you! [/quote]Take it to drumchat. We don't talk about other instruments here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezbass Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 [quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1326295487' post='1495063'] The drummers who speed up are very rare. [/quote]You're kidding right? Hence the joke "How do you when there's a drummer at the door - the knocking speeds up." I've never known a drummer that slows down (or any other instruments for that matter). Maybe I've just been unlucky/lucky (delete as appropriate). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor J Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 [quote name='BottomE' timestamp='1326294368' post='1495047'] Remove most of his drums and go back to basics. Snare, hi-hat, bass drum and couple of cymbals - its all you need to lay a groove. [/quote] Imagine your guitarist told you all you needed was one string to lay a groove The big question is does the 'drummer' recognise it's a problem? If not, you need to have a chat. My last drummer always used to speed up and just shrugged it off as one of those things that happens with adrenaline puming and so we always sped up, every song. I would suggest finding a decent drum teacher, if the 'drummer' is willing to work on it, someone with experience in training someone to play steadily to a tempo. Playing to a metronome is diffferent for a drummer in that they're in time if they generally can't hear the click, which is something which takes a while to get used to. Hearing tips and tricks from another drummer might be easier to take in than it coming from a bassist or guitarist. But your drummer has to be open to tackling it. If not, find another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrenochrome Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 A 'friend' of mine usually finds himself being the main timekeeper and tempo-setter in all his bands over the years - might not be as rare as people might think... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risingson Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 A bad drummer pulls a band down, no question. Unless there are tuning issues with guitars and such, the drummer's lack of rhythmical sensibilities will be the first thing people notice if they came to see you live. It all depends on what you want from your band. If you're gigging regularly then unfortunately there isn't much point in keeping the guy on as you owe your audience the best show you can afford them, and that includes no straying from tempo. A bit heartless maybe... but just my 2p. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JellyKnees Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Finding a good drummer is like trying to find a thin lass with no kids in Birkenhead.... We use pre-recorded loops, samples etc which circumvents the problem, but it does somehow miss that live feel... We ARE currently trying to find a good drummer, so i guess that proves that it's not the ideal solution. Still, I'd rather use pre-recorded drums than have a horribly out of time real drummer. I think part of the problem for me is being so use to recording with a perfectly in-time track, that I find it very hard to play with someone whose timing is not very good... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_S Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Yeah, drummers who can't keep time have to be politely shown out. We've just been auditioning for a new one (ours left to join another band) so I know it's a major pain, but better that than going ahead with a bad one. We decided we'd go acoustic and do without drums for as long as it took to get somebody who fitted in and could play... took 6 months, but that's just how it goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risingson Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 [quote name='JellyKnees' timestamp='1326297300' post='1495093'] Finding a good drummer is like trying to find a thin lass with no kids in Birkenhead.... [/quote] Ouch! Hahaha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 [quote name='Doctor J' timestamp='1326296256' post='1495076'] Imagine your guitarist told you all you needed was one string to lay a groove [/quote] Do you actually need more? [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHE6hZU72A4"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHE6hZU72A4[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shizznit Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I have worked with a few pro drummers that use click tracks in their ear monitors because they are hung up about keeping perfect time. That then avoids all arguements that the song is out of time or too quick/slow. It's a skill and does take some getting used to, but does yield a lot of other benefits such as being able to delay and modulations effects to the same BPM or timing samples. Tama make a really cool device for live click track monitoring (can't remember what it's called off the top of my head), but I have seen a few drummers use them. Introducing this technology to a drummer that is nagged because of sloppy timing is a sensitive topic and might cause offense, so be tactile! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodyratm Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 How to train your drummer? With a water pistol and food. If he plays in time he gets a snack - if not he gets a spritz in the face. they have to learn somehow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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