noojb Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Hi guys, i've been working on my walking bass lines and i've been playing lots more standards recently. When playing these tunes i find that i'm usually ok when i have a chart in front of me, but i find it really difficult if the charts taken away to memorise the chords and think about playing interesting walking lines at the same time. I find when playing functions if i'm playing funk tunes or rock or pop tunes i'm fine memorising hours and hours worth of material because i'm thinking about the grooves and the lines that i'm playing. When it comes to thinking about what chord comes next and walking at the same time i get lost. Have any of you guys got any techniques that you use for memorising these tunes? and i was wondering when you play these tunes if your thinking about all the chords all the time or if your playing more by ear and following melodies rather than thinking about each individual chord. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noojb Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 just realised theres a similar topic on here already, but about memorising lines not chords. I guess this is kind of the opposite problem so it will be interesting to get peoples views. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blademan_98 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) I find it easier to memorise chord progressions than lines! Usually the chords progress in some order (II V IV) etc for example. If you know the key you can usually work out whats next. I don't play Jazz so lets see what Bilbo has to say...... Edited January 11, 2012 by Blademan_98 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noojb Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 I find i'm ok with the simpler standards and most 12 bar progressions but when they start to get more complex with multiple chords per bar and key changes it gets very tricky to keep up without a chart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blademan_98 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Ah, that's probably why I don't play Jazz then I had forgotten that they change keys etc. It is from listening and playing those changes that you create that groove. I will bow out of your thread and leave it to those that know what they are talking about! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 People have different methods. I have to say I am the last person to advise you as I can spend all day on a tune and then forget it tomorrow! Actually, what you need is David Bakers 3 books on How To Play Bebop. Vol 3 has a chapter (Chapter 2) on how to memorise tunes. Baker's books are great learning tools and this one covers your needs. You can get it as a sownload for Kindle but I woudl recommend the hard copy as the musical examples don't look good on a Kindle (altnough they aren't so bad on a PC). The are 20 odd steps so I can't type them all out here (no time) so I recommenmd the book. step 1, for example, is 'Sing the melody over and over until it is correctly implanted. Listen to recordings, check fake books, sheet music etc'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noojb Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 that sounds really useful i'll have to give it a go. thanks a lot! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lobematt Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 There's a free e-book you can download from www.jazzadvice.com which is all about visualization. Talks about being able to visualize single chords at first, then the min/maj or whatever comes after it moving up to progressions like ii V I etc. I can't really vouch for it as its pretty hefty and I haven't really gotten stuck into it but it looks the business! And it's free so probably worth a bash anyway! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blademan_98 Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 [quote name='lobematt' timestamp='1326463872' post='1497564'] There's a free e-book you can download from www.jazzadvice.com which is all about visualization. Talks about being able to visualize single chords at first, then the min/maj or whatever comes after it moving up to progressions like ii V I etc. I can't really vouch for it as its pretty hefty and I haven't really gotten stuck into it but it looks the business! And it's free so probably worth a bash anyway! [/quote] Thanks for that link. Although I don't play Jazz on my Jazz bass I do like the approach for learning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wylie Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 [quote name='noojb' timestamp='1326306499' post='1495276'] just realised theres a similar topic on here already, but about memorising lines not chords. I guess this is kind of the opposite problem so it will be interesting to get peoples views. [/quote] I find that with a song like Blue Bossa, which has two ii-V-I movements, not a lot of memorization is really required to move through them. Once you're oriented to the ii-V-I and you've found different ways to play it, that group of chords (and the other group as well) kind of become one thing. Like lots of people, I'm sure, I've found that seeing the chords as related groups, and not as single chords, works best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakenewmanbass Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) My advice would be try to learn the song rather than the sequence (which alone is dry), try to get to the point where note choice is instinctive because you know what will work with the song, that way you are more open to hearing where to go in solos... if you get lost... who cares! get the sellotape out, work together... Edited January 17, 2012 by jakenewmanbass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliverBlackman Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 [quote name='tedgilley' timestamp='1326759800' post='1501739'] I find that with a song like Blue Bossa, which has two ii-V-I movements, not a lot of memorization is really required to move through them. Once you're oriented to the ii-V-I and you've found different ways to play it, that group of chords (and the other group as well) kind of become one thing. Like lots of people, I'm sure, I've found that seeing the chords as related groups, and not as single chords, works best. [/quote] blue bossa is just two keys though which makes it far easier than most tunes i've come across. A technique im trying to help learn the tunes is to play a solo bass style arrangement of playing the melody on top of the chord tones. Its not a quick process for me yet as im having to think about positioning a lot, and also you will miss some of the chords out but as previously stated you can sometimes piece together a jazz tune by listening out for common progressions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faithless Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 Most of jazz standards are made of II V I's, so you might wanna think in these chunks, rather than separate chords. Lets say, first 8 bars of Autumn Leaves, there are 5 individual chords, but you can think of them in this way (lets say, tune is in Gmaj): major II V I (in Gmaj) IV chord (Cmaj) minor II V I (in Em) The B Section of the tune is pretty much the same thing, there is one 'additional' chromatic section, which can be converted to short II V patterns, that still work on the basic changes of first 8 bars. Laimis Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wylie Posted January 17, 2012 Share Posted January 17, 2012 [quote name='blackmn90' timestamp='1326798129' post='1501991'] blue bossa is just two keys though which makes it far easier than most tunes i've come across. A technique im trying to help learn the tunes is to play a solo bass style arrangement of playing the melody on top of the chord tones. Its not a quick process for me yet as im having to think about positioning a lot, and also you will miss some of the chords out but as previously stated you can sometimes piece together a jazz tune by listening out for common progressions [/quote] This may be true, but if the tune is composed of two or more ii-V-I progressions, all the more reason to see them as units, or changes of key, if you look at it that way. Doing so helps me see a lot more variety--what to do with the dominant seventh, when to use a tritone or other substitution--than I would see going chord to chord. That said, I haven't tried your technique of playing solo over a melody, which I am sure is a good one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Hubbard Bass Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Hi Noojb The solution is simple- you have to understand Harmony. Many musicians do not understand that Western music is based on a Major and Minor system. Those who do tend to be totally in the dark about the Minor Harmony part and its applications. The sad thing is that there are a lot of teachers out there that don't have a clue about this either. By understanding how Major and Minor Harmony work interdependently will provide you the cornerstone to understanding more advanced concepts and enable you to weave a common thread through those progressions that you are finding difficult to memorize. The mind doesn't work at memorizing thousands of different things; you have to have a system that organizes these concepts into broader chunks. Best- Joe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.