christhammer666 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 hi guys i love playing bass but most theory goes way over my head.4ths 5ths ect leaves my bamboozled. my question is do you really need a vast knowledge of theory to enjoy music my band has a cd out althought not ground breaking i have always just played by ear and play what sounds good to me. I wouldnt know if i was playing bass chords or just playing with myself. i suppose im just insecure in the fact that if i dont know every bit of theory going ill never make it as a decent bass player my 2 favourite bassists are john myung who knows the bass inside out and the other is steve harris who even though is an absolute monster on the bass would admit to not having much knowledge of theory id love to here some of your opinions jamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RhysP Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Improving your knowledge of theory can't do you any harm. You might not neccesarily use it in the context you play in at the moment, but it's always useful to have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 [quote name='christhammer666' timestamp='1326312074' post='1495398'] hi guys i love playing bass but most theory goes way over my head.4ths 5ths ect leaves my bamboozled. my question is do you really need a vast knowledge of theory to enjoy music my band has a cd out althought not ground breaking i have always just played by ear and play what sounds good to me. I wouldnt know if i was playing bass chords or just playing with myself. i suppose im just insecure in the fact that if i dont know every bit of theory going ill never make it as a decent bass player my 2 favourite bassists are john myung who knows the bass inside out and the other is steve harris who even though is an absolute monster on the bass would admit to not having much knowledge of theory id love to here some of your opinions jamie [/quote] You don't 'need' music theory to enjoy music or to play bass but having some music theory can do you absolutely no harm, so it is a no-brainer not to! To say that Steve Harris hasn't much knowledge of music theory is probably doing him a MASSIVE disservice, I bet he knows a damn sight more than you think. As to learning basic stuff like what 4th and 5ths are, it is literally a 15 minute lesson... so long as you had the 15 minute lesson before that one explaining what major and minor scales were! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blademan_98 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 To answer the question, no you don't need it to enjoy music. I have expanded as a player (IMHO) since learning about the theory. If you don't enjoy the journey there is no point just enjoy playing what sounds good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Hi To be the first to enter the no doubt an inevitable fray of differing opinions, I would say a fluent working knowledge of the scales is more important for many players. It means that your fingers instinctively know which notes are going to work and which are not - wherever you are on the fretboard and whatever key the number is in. All the great jazz players and all the great blues players know their scales, regardless of whether just by ear or written down on a stave. Just my own view, you understand... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 [quote name='Andyjr1515' timestamp='1326312685' post='1495412'] Hi To be the first to enter the no doubt an inevitable fray of differing opinions, [/quote] While writing this, the fray already started - so I wasn't first after all :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christhammer666 Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 i know a few scales stuff like that and i do love the learning part it just fries my brain lol and to reply to what warwickhunt said im sure i read somewhere once in an interview once where steve harris said he didnt know hardly any theory i would never put the man down he is the master Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iconic Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 For me playing a bass and theory is a bit like moving to Spain, sure you can enjoy yaself without learning the lingo, many expats dont speak a word, but learning the language makes things a lot easier and even more fun in every possible way! For example you would be surprised how many really good bass lines are just scales......good times, rasputin, dance to the beat and so on. I'm still learning modes, I actually find it all interesting now I can relate these to songs, bass book for dummies covers it very simply, good book in general. I find the best way of learning theory is in the bath or on the throne....or in bed at the moment laid up with man cold! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 [quote name='christhammer666' timestamp='1326313489' post='1495426'] i know a few scales stuff like that and i do love the learning part it just fries my brain lol [/quote] If you like learning, then learning theory will open many new horizons, not only for playing but for listening too. Real fluency in scales - real unconscious fluency - will do almost nothing for your listening enjoyment, but will transform your playing. Sounds to me that you may wish to do both :-D If so,then watch out, Harris, there's competition on the way :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_S Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I believe you don't need theory if you have a good musical ear. I did the whole lessons, classical training and music theory bit on violin all through school, and it was always the theory (and having to play sheets of dots) that killed the joy of playing the instrument for me and eventually saw me give it up (at grade 7-8ish) and move to guitar and bass. As it stands, I have no idea which note I'm playing at any given point or what key anything is in etc. but I have a good ear for what's right (helped by years of playing in orchestras, I don't deny) and know where to play to get the notes I want to hear - I see notes as being relative to each other, so all I need for each song I play is to hear the first note and I'm sorted from there; if it gets a capo on the guitars or transposed etc. it makes no difference to me whatsoever. If what you do works for you like what I do works for me and it doesn't involve theory, I say keep at it and don't feel forced to change just because something else works for somebody else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iconic Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 For me playing a bass and theory is a bit like moving to Spain, sure you can enjoy yaself without learning the lingo, many expats dont speak a word, but learning the language makes things a lot easier and even more fun in every possible way! For example you would be surprised how many really good bass lines are just scales......good times, rasputin, dance to the beat and so on. I'm still learning modes, I actually find it all interesting now I can relate these to songs, bass book for dummies covers it very simply, good book in general. I find the best way of learning theory is in the bath or on the throne....or in bed at the moment laid up with man cold! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christhammer666 Posted January 11, 2012 Author Share Posted January 11, 2012 thanks for all your comments Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iconic Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Look in the theory post section, I just posted a very helpful cheat sheet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 [quote name='christhammer666' timestamp='1326312074' post='1495398']I wouldnt know if i was playing bass chords or just playing with myself. [/quote] Really?!?! I know very little theory. A few years ago I had a few lessons with a well respected local bass teacher. He was amazed at what I could play without knowing what the hell I was doing! That's not to say that I wouldn't [i]like[/i] to know some more theory, but I have a busy life and just can't dedicate the time to it that it would require. I have a basic working knowledge of the difference between major and minor scales and thirds, fifths, etc - but that's it. I don't say this because I am proud of it - but just to add to the discussion. It is possible to become a reasonable player with very little theoretical knowledge, but having it certainly won't do you any harm! I don't subscribe to the reverse-snobbery ideology of refusing to learn theory. That's just silly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 [quote name='iconic' timestamp='1326314435' post='1495443'] For me playing a bass and theory is a bit like moving to Spain, sure you can enjoy yaself without learning the lingo, many expats dont speak a word, but learning the language makes things a lot easier and even more fun in every possible way![/quote] That's a brilliant analogy!! Love it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 [quote name='christhammer666' timestamp='1326312074' post='1495398'] my 2 favourite bassists are john myung who knows the bass inside out and the other is steve harris who even though is an absolute monster on the bass would admit to not having much knowledge of theory [/quote] Interesting point. From a personal point of view though, I'd far rather listen to Harris than Myung! Again, not from a reverse-snobbery point of view - just because I think SH has a more interesting style and tone. Horses for courses I guess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkypenguin Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) Its not critical to have theory in order to play bass as an instrument, you need it to understand music. Plenty of bassists dont have a thorough grasp of theory and get by using their ears (every bit as important to have good ears IMO). However, if you're looking to go deeper into bass playing (i.e. really dismantling what/how other bass players are doing what they do), deeper into the music and really push yourself as a bassist, i would say theory is a major component, if not essential. Basics like scales, arpeggios, chords, chord tones etc. are all really really important to your playing Edited January 11, 2012 by funkypenguin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveK Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 [quote][size=5]do i need theory[/size][/quote] Depends what you want to do. If you only want to get together with your mates and play for fun every now and then, then just carry on having fun. If however, you want to go further (as I suspect that you do) then, at the very least an understanding of basic theory will be invaluable. Understanding the [i]principle[/i] of intervals (4ths and 5ths etc) and modes is a 5 minute lesson - to get them to effortlessly roll off your fingers in a creative fashion is another matter. There's some really good stuff in the theory section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grassie Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 I've been playing for 18 years and have never had a lesson. And I believe that had I had theory lessons, I would be a much better player than I am now. So I say go for it, and learn as much as you can. I'm not saying it's too late for me (at 36 I hope not) but I've always had the same problem with music theory. That is, it has the same effect on my brain as maths did at school. I get so far, and then I switch off. I have made some decisions for myself this new year ( I hate the term "New Years Resolutions") and have already started to make some progress (I have started painting again - not decorating but the artistic variety) and one of my decisions is to knuckle down and at least learn some basics relating to the bass guitar. I'm sure I will benefit from it, and you will too if you do the same. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
machinehead Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 This is only my opinion but not knowing any theory is like stumbling around in the dark. You can do it and get to where you want to go but with a little knowledge of theory, the light comes on. It doesn't mean you have to get a degree in music, but a basic understanding will be of enormous benefit to your playing. Frank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 I'll second everyone who has said it can't hurt. I'm no theory genius, but I know my chords, scales and modes (the "grammar", if you like, of music) and it informs me of the context of what I play. The way I learned scales and modes was to learn them by their sound - it's useful if you want to add a particular "mood" to a bass part. Knowing that applying a Phrygian or Locrian mode to a bass part will make it sound a little bit sad or depressing, for example - you'll know the type of scale you have to play to achieve that mood without having to actually sit down and work out the notes that create that sound. I found it makes learning the theory stuff a bit more interesting. Combine that knowledge with a good ear, a good sense of time and feel, and workable technique and you'll be able to play in most kinds of musical situations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russ Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Here's a little analogy... say you joined a cover band as the singer, and they did a cover of, for example, "Du Hast" by Rammstein. You could learn the words by their sounds, but you're not going to be able to understand them properly and actually sing them sincerely without learning to speak German. Same with music. You can make the right sounds, but you'll only understand what they mean if you learn theory. Music is a language too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeBrownBass Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 The question is, do you want to understand what your playing. If you don't, no you don't need to understand theory, if you do, you do. Music is a language, you learn by mimicking (hearing what your playing) but you learn to write & and understand a language by studying it. Its up to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_S Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 [quote name='Russ' timestamp='1326329386' post='1495696'] You can make the right sounds, but you'll only understand what they mean if you learn theory. [/quote] I respectfully disagree. I think music speaks to everybody on a personal level, and to try and dictate what it'll mean to another individual by metrics alone is to greatly lessen it. To put it another way, if you've ever seen a film called Dead Poets Society, theory is to music what the writing of Dr. J. Evans Pritchard, Ph.D. is to poetry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scalpy Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Knowledge is Power! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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