BEAD on a 33'' - how heavy strings?

[Jamesemt]

So I've decide to string my 4 string basses BEAD instead, but wondering if I can get away with it on a Shuker 33''? How heavy would the B have to go?

[Grand Wazoo]

It can be done but once you do it you will be faced with another issue, gauge wise, you need to appreciate that the heavier the string the flappier, a 33" scale is not that far away from a standard 34" scale so that would not be much of an issue, I would suggest you experiment with a 65/85/100/125 gauge. I have seen it done before, and 10 out of 10 blokes love the low end but 9 out of 10 hate the fact that the 1st G is missing and end up going back to normal, which is the issue I was referring when I started to reply.To be entirely honest if you want a low B your best bet is a 5 strings bass because to most of us missing that G string is like missing a limb.

Edited January 14, 2012 by Grand Wazoo

[chrismuzz]

Normally I need a 35" scale and a .130 for the B to sound right.. But ive just acquired a 34" 5 string with what I think is a .130 on it and it feels/sounds perfect! The angle of the headstock, and whether it's strung through the body or the bridge have a part to play in it I think

Personally on a 33"er I'd get a .135 B string but you could get away with less

[Paul_C]

I'm sure it'll depend on your preference for strings - mine (3) are all tuned BEAD and strung with 50-110s as I used to like 30-90s in std. tuning.

[Count Bassy]

[quote name='Grand Wazoo' timestamp='1326555831' post='1498800']
It can be done but once you do it you will be faced with another issue, gauge wise, you need to appreciate that the heavier the string the flappier,
[/quote]

Surely, all other things being equal, the heavier the string string the higher the tension required to achieve the same note?

[Gwilym]

[quote name='Count Bassy' timestamp='1326568734' post='1499048']
Surely, all other things being equal, the heavier the string string the higher the tension required to achieve the same note?
[/quote]

exactly. (EDIT: if you wanted to be pedantic, the frequency of vibration is related to the length and mass of the string so not necessarily related to string gauge at all)

my experience with a B also suggest that having a thicker B string doesn't necessarily give a better tone on the B string (they get too thick/stiff at the bridge and nut, and IMO prevent the string from vibrating freely). I personally wouldn't go heavier than a 125 now, but that is on a 35" scale, and if I did go for a heavier gauge it would have to be taper wound. I have DR loriders 45 to 125 on a 34" scale bass, and they are quite tight. I'm sure they'd be fine on a 33" inch scale, and they've given me a consistent B tone on a number of basses, where other strings have sounded a bit wooly.

Edited January 15, 2012 by Gwilym

[JTUK]

hmm..not sure about this.

There is an argument that 35" is the required scale..but I have 34" that are great with a low B. But..those basses took some finding.
Not because of the scale so much, but from the definition of the B itself.

Note: I don't subscribe to the thinking that a neck thru and/or 35" scale is the default best start off point for 5ers.

This is certainly trial and error territory as I don't think you will know if that bass works with a B or not. IME, this is no given.

You could detune whatever is on there just to get an idea of the sound and whether it is going to be good enough. If the sound is rounded and indistinct
and unbalanced from the rest of the strings...you may be at the start of a problem here.
Forget the tension at this stage. You could go down in steps. a tone at a time, to see how it goes.

If you are doing stuff which requires low tuning...as I was..then time to get a 5 string. But, again...5 srings on a bass does
not make a 5 str, if you get my drift.

The low B defines a 5 st..and not every bass works in this area. I'd say most..IME..do not.

Also... clean strings are a must..as nothing you do, wants to wooley (sic) up that B..IMO.!!!

[Gareth Hughes]

The scale length argument, to me, is poppycock, based on my own experiences. I had a 36" 6 string and a 36" 5 string, and both of their B's were not as focused in sound or tight in feel as the current 34" 5 string I have now. Regarding tension - I've found that the same gauge of string will have less tension if it's strung through the bridge and more tension if it's strung through the body. No scientific reasoning for this, just experience.

[Count Bassy]

[quote name='Gwilym' timestamp='1326633568' post='1499699']
exactly. (EDIT: if you wanted to be pedantic, the frequency of vibration is related to the length and mass of the string so not necessarily related to string gauge at all)
[/quote]

.. and the elasticity of the core material

If you want to pedantic then I actually used the word heavier, which suggests a relationship to mass rather than gauge!!

[chrismuzz]

[quote name='Count Bassy' timestamp='1326568734' post='1499048']
Surely, all other things being equal, the heavier the string string the higher the tension required to achieve the same note?
[/quote]

Yes. Which is why on my bass tuned to A I have a .152 gauge, i prefer it to feel nice and tight

[quote name='Gareth Hughes' timestamp='1326639375' post='1499786']
I've found that the same gauge of string will have less tension if it's strung through the bridge and more tension if it's strung through the body. No scientific reasoning for this, just experience.
[/quote]

Definitely. All of my basses have the option to string through the body or the bridge so I can 100% confirm this. It's to do with the break angle of the string being much more extreme when through body stringing. As I mentioned above, the angle of the headstock can play a part too. As can using those string tree thingies you get on Fenders

[Gwilym]

[quote name='Count Bassy' timestamp='1326657709' post='1500124']
.. and the elasticity of the core material

If you want to pedantic then I actually used the word heavier, which suggests a relationship to mass rather than gauge!!
[/quote]

yeah, my reference was't particularly to your quote, but that frequently people will use gauge & "heavyness/lightness" interchangeably, but they are not necessarily equivalent.

also the elasticity/stiffness of the string makes no differences to the pitch, only to the perceived tension of the string when playing.

[chrismuzz]

[quote name='Gwilym' timestamp='1326658967' post='1500161']
also the elasticity/stiffness of the string makes no differences to the pitch, only to the perceived tension of the string when playing.
[/quote]

Yep, it's purely a comfort thing, however for the fussiest of us that's vital

[Count Bassy]

Must be careful what we mean by tension and stiffness here. You could replace an E string with a 0.1" solid steel rod with a zero tension, but it wouldn't half be stiff!