BottomE Posted January 18, 2012 Author Share Posted January 18, 2012 [quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1326890173' post='1503236'] Looking at the punters, and talking to them (I was in the crowd too, after all), it was pretty clear that they weren't actually listening to the band ... they were listening to the original song being replayed in their heads. I've noticed this phenomenon many times before, but last Friday was about the most extreme example I can recall. [/quote] Glad you mentioned that phenomenom. Sometimes i have laughed at some of the songs suggested to cover (from the drummer normally). 15 piece bands with brass and strings etc. To me it seems an insane choice. When we have tried them its like the audience are filling in the blanks - the bits that are missing don't seem to matter. Even parts that you would think are integral to the song. As long as the melody is there most people don't care if there is a clav or synth drum part missing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmccombe7 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 I joined a classic rock covers band end last year and their approach was to learn basics of 2-3 songs over either 1-2 weeks. Attend a fortnightly rehearsal which has gone from a 3 hr to 6 hr slot to ensure we can run through setlist to date. We then work on the detail and timing of the individual songs and iron out any queries the band may have. Each time we picked a few new songs to learn for the next rehearsal. I've always liked to add my version of how to play a song which this particular band don't always agree and has been discussed in other threads on BC raised by myself. They are all ex-pros and have a reasonable amount of experience (more than myself) playing live especially drummer who continues to play every weekend with other bands. Their whole idea was that they wanted to finally play the songs and music they have all liked over the years rather than continue to play club / wedding covers just for the sake of playing. We have no intention of jamming a song at a gig and they want everything ironed out at rehearsals before gigging to the point they are hiring a hall to do a full PA & Lighting test. All sounds a bit OTT i know but at the end of the day I'm having a blast at the moment and i guess if we are enjoying it, it will come across live and hopefully the audience (if any ) will pick up on that vibe and enjoy too. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomE Posted January 18, 2012 Author Share Posted January 18, 2012 [quote name='dmccombe7' timestamp='1326892516' post='1503278'] We have no intention of jamming a song at a gig and they want everything ironed out at rehearsals before gigging to the point they are hiring a hall to do a full PA & Lighting test. All sounds a bit OTT i know but at the end of the day I'm having a blast at the moment and i guess if we are enjoying it, it will come across live and hopefully the audience (if any ) will pick up on that vibe and enjoy too. Dave [/quote] Like you i don't like jamming a new (cover) song in front of the paying public. Especially if all the other tunes are quite polished. I don't mind in other music projects but not for the covers band. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1326889512' post='1503215'] [size=4][color=#222222][font=Arial]Spoken like a true musician.[/font][/color][/size] [size=4][color=#222222][font=Arial]Do the punters really care about "little extras"? Unfortunately they don't! It only has to be a song they know and one they like. Preferably played well, but judging by some of the bands I've seen even ability doesn't seem to matter that much to an audience. [/font][/color][/size] [size=4][color=#222222][font=Arial]I keep the covers band simple, effective and mainly as per the record. And no, we don't rehearse. I save the cleaver stuff and my creativity for the other bands where it's needed and appreciated.[/font][/color][/size] [/quote] True... I make the effort to make it interesting for the band and make it a different gig from the others that we all do... It may be disheartening and/or frustrating, but it would kill it for me, it we just reverted to standard fare. Even our pick-up blues bands can really get hold of a song and do something with it..IMO..and some pubs/audiences really appreciate that...but others,...jeez..!! Some pub and punters are very open and have a very wide musical taste..and others want the same set every night from the same set of bands. It is a difficult thing to get right....and again..it all comes down to getting yourselves about and wearing the buggers down..ha ha !! Edited January 18, 2012 by JTUK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leftyhook Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) I treat every audience with the respect that I would expect if I was in the audience.After all they are in attendance expecting to be entertained, whether they know the songs they are listening to or not. They may not notice the odd change to a song, but they can certainly tell if the performer is disinterested and would rather be somewhere else. I am always happy to be playing my bass on stage, even though acoustics,through the night travelling etc can be a challenge. That is not a follow on from any of the previous posts, just my [i]attitude of gratitude[/i]. Edited January 18, 2012 by leftyhook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris2112 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 This is crux of the matter with cover tunes; if you want to make them something 'different' you're going to need to dedicate as much time to it as if you were writing your own songs. Take those Dirty Loopz guys. Okay, so their music is awful and sounds as nice as a couple of tramps playing a rusty trombone. But they clearly didn't throw those awful tunes together in five minutes, because as dire as they are they are fairly polished performances. So if you're wanting to do something different, it will take some time and effort to make it credible. Ask yourself though, how good are 'fettled' cover tunes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomE Posted January 18, 2012 Author Share Posted January 18, 2012 [quote name='leftyhook' timestamp='1326902699' post='1503481'] I treat every audience with the respect that I would expect if I was in the audience.After all they are in attendance expecting to be entertained, whether they know the songs they are listening to or not. [/quote] Thats a really great perspective. Its easy to get blasé when you are gigging a lot. [quote name='Chris2112' timestamp='1326903705' post='1503500'] This is crux of the matter with cover tunes; if you want to make them something 'different' you're going to need to dedicate as much time to it as if you were writing your own songs. Take those Dirty Loopz guys. Okay, so their music is awful and sounds as nice as a couple of tramps playing a rusty trombone. But they clearly didn't throw those awful tunes together in five minutes, because as dire as they are they are fairly polished performances. So if you're wanting to do something different, it will take some time and effort to make it credible. Ask yourself though, how good are 'fettled' cover tunes? [/quote] You hit it on the head. Is it worth putting in the effort? Maybe we'd have as much impact if we bought some new lights or stage clothes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjay69 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 [quote]Putting a few songs that lead straight into the next is a good one - people have often remarked to my covers band that they like the way we do that, without the predictable pause between every song whilst a guitar is (audibly) tuned. Another is good one is, if you play a few songs by one band, and they`re all well-known faves, bunch them together. A band I go to see to that, and for me, it really works having three Jam songs played in a row[/quote] At last someone who understands my thinking... I've been banging on about this to all my band members since one of my first cover bands when i was a teen (some time ago now yes). Linking songs together is such a simple and effective way to "keep the flow" going. There's nothing worse than that dead spot in between songs, worse if guitarists decide to tune up or have a general fiddle If you got them (crowd) going or half interested most of them will take any possible oppo to wander off and get a drink, go outside or sit down again, link a few songs together and they might just stick around. In one of our earliest covers bands when we were all enthusiastic, we'd spend ages and ages working out endings that banged straight into the intro on the next song. I try to liken it to something thats been going on for a very long time, DJ's ! when was the last time you heard a dj stop in between songs while he roots around looking for the next track ! there was a damn good reason for 2 decks back in the old days, to keep the music flowing and the people on the dancefloor ! Same thing with bands it just looks a lot better when your slick. phew.. and breathe Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leftyhook Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) Songs linked together = medley It works, but have some gaps to make contact with the audience. I am speaking from vast experience. If you just run through without stopping you can lose the audience just as easily as stopping after every song. Oh, sometimes things go wrong, snapped strings etc. You just have to make contact with the audience to cover up. Asking them if they are having a good time etc. Your front person just needs to be confident and have a bit of cover up patter. A very interesting thread this has turned into. Edited January 18, 2012 by leftyhook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjay69 Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 [quote] Songs linked together = medley It works, but have some gaps to make contact with the audience. [/quote] oh Of course, im not suggesting to link the whole set together, that would be just silly Stars on 45 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacqueslemac Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 [quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1326890173' post='1503236'] Looking at the punters, and talking to them (I was in the crowd too, after all), it was pretty clear that they weren't actually listening to the band ... they were listening to the original song being replayed in their heads.[/quote] Couldn't agree more. Our approach is that if you want to play them exactly the same as on the record, join a tribute band. We do covers of songs by Britney Spears and Christine Aguilera as well as Foo Fighters, Pearl Jam and so on, but we play our own "interpretation" of them. I remember the advice "play covers like they're your own and play your own like they're covers", which I think we do (well, the first part anyway). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 [size=4][color=#222222][font=Arial]Running numbers together, segue, is an old trick. [/font][/color][/size][color=#222222][font=Arial][size=1][/size][/font][/color] [size=4][color=#222222][font=Arial] [/font][/color][/size][color=#222222][font=Arial][size=1][/size][/font][/color] [size=4][color=#222222][font=Arial]For some reason audiences always try to sit down within 2 seconds of the last chord. Segue several together and you keep them dancing.[/font][/color][/size] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 (edited) It all depends on your and your band's ability. Copyright only extends to lyrics and melody. If the punters can hear the wrods and the tune then really it doesn't matter what the drums, bass et al are playing. Unless of course the bass has the melody or a very important harmony. If you're just banging out the chords you can pretty much put any rhythm in and "make it your own" no one will notice as someone else said (in not so many words) they're listening to the tune in their heads and remembering getting of with some bird in their teens. Mainly its all about attitude, confidence and being tight sell the band. Not the tunes or musicianship. Unfortunately Endings and starts confident and tight, don't get lost or miss verses or choruses. Occasionally it happens by accident but I've found its a waste of time missing out bits to make the song shorter or playing extra verses because you really like the tune. Eventually you'll hate it anyway and when you get deps in you'll confuse the hell out of them. Once you've been playing together for 6 months you get a feel for what songs will and won't work on first play through. Afetr several years you won;t even need to play them just listening will give you an idea. We learn them from MP3 - same key, same format, close as possible to original then simplify/elaborate to fit our line up. Edited January 18, 2012 by TimR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomE Posted January 18, 2012 Author Share Posted January 18, 2012 I like the idea of linking the songs and creating more of a show but can you practice this? What can sometimes happen is that we arrive with a set list but say on the 4th song someone in the band (not me) decides to play another song for a host of reasons. This drives me nuts cos it means that you get 5 people on stage saying "What was that? What are we playing next?". It must look terrible to punters Can you build flexibility into the set and keep it flowing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 You all need to be on the ball and have one person 'stage managing' your show. Usually the singer or keys. When they yell what song is next during the outro of the song you're playing everyone just has to play it. Once you're on the stage the band is no longer a democracy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Jimmy Saville invented the segue. A segue is two tunes played back to back without the drums stopping. The simplest ones we do, the band hold the last chord of the song while the drummer counts in the next tune. A medley is a bunch of tunes shortened to their best parts and stitched together musically. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1326922356' post='1503923'] Jimmy Saville invented the segue. [/quote] I read that, read it again, and then said ... Hmmmmmm. Am I the only person who did that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 No I did as I wrote it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomE Posted January 18, 2012 Author Share Posted January 18, 2012 Next rehearsal i'll say i got a great idea from Jimmy Saville - see how that goes down Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted January 18, 2012 Share Posted January 18, 2012 Google jimmy Saville twin decks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 [size=4]Now then, now then. Didn't Jimmy Saville invent the term Disco as well? [/size] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 I remember "disco" as being an abbreviation of the cool & groovy French word "discotheque", one of the rare occasions in modern times that English has borrowed from French. If my memories of being a teenager are to be trusted, in the late 60's people still talked about "going to a dance tonight" or maybe "going to a nightclub" rather than "going to a disco". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krysh Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 in my band we mostly play originals. we also play two covers, but arranged, harmonized and performed with "our" sound and style. I never liked to play "copies" in any way. for me playing music has always been more an entertaining art than craftmanship or provided service Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmccombe7 Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Joining first 2-3 songs without a break always worked for me. After the 3rd song interact with the audience and by that point you will have a basic feel for the audience and whether they will react positively or negatively. Also agree with democracy stops when the band starts and someone needs to lead usually the singer IME but not always. Having a set list written can work if already tried and tested over several gigs. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brensabre79 Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Jimmy Saville may be responsible for twin decks being used to play two records back to back at some point in time. As for inventing the Segue (which is an Italian word by the way, like most classical music terms - that should give you a clue...) perhaps you should not trust everything you read on Google or Wikipedia... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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