thisnameistaken Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Back story: I've had tendon problems in both wrists for the last couple of years but since I finished my last bass guitar gig in July last year and have only played double bass since then my wrists have gradually recovered and I haven't had any pain/scratchiness from either wrist for a couple of months. Last night I had a jam with some new musicians I'm trying to shoe-horn into a band, and I played my Thumb bass for about three hours. Woke up this morning and my left wrist is not feeling too great. So I'm thinking I may have to shift my beloved Thumb bass and look for something more comfortable to play. I would rather not go with a short-scale bass if I can avoid it, but apart from that obviously my primary concern is a bass I can actually play on a daily basis. I'm a little bit worried that I was often playing a Jazz during the period I started with wrist problems but perhaps with a strap adjustment I can get a Fender working OK. Any suggestions? I'm also tempted to look at fives, but that's probably a silly idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoombung Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 The double bass hand position places no stress on the wrist whatsoever. A conventional bass does, however - that's why you're experiencing some discomfort. I don't know much about the Thumb bass but I think you should look for a bass that pivots on a more upright angle - pick something with a long horn that goes past the 12th fret. That should help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 HAve you tried a radical strap adjustment so you are always playing with straight wrists? I don't know how you carry the bass so I don't know if I am talking sh*te. Another thought is that I had wrist problems years ago and couldn't seem to get the aches and pains to stop but I had an Microsoft Natural ergonomic keyboard 4000 v.1 fitted in work and the discomfort gradually fell away and has never returned. I am typing on it as we speak and its keeps me wrists straight all of the time. Its not always the bass; it can be the PC/typing aggravating the bass issues or jsut preventing recovery!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Can't find the original Arlo Gordin article, but this may interest you: [url="http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f30/all-concerning-bass-players-7708/"]http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f30/all-concerning-bass-players-7708/[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoombung Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 I experience wrist pain when I switch between different basses with different neck dimensions. It's often the [i]adjustment [/i]that causes the problem for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fiatcoupe432 Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 I had this problem 2 years ago, i went for 6 session of acupuncture and since then i never had problem anymore. after its actually weird that this happen only when you play the thumb, i was thinking that on double bass you actually stretch more and need to do more pressure with fingers?!maybe thats wrong but the acupuncture actually helped me as i ve stopped for 6 months before start to play again always worth trying ciao antonio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
essexbasscat Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Have an assessment with a BAPAM practiioner. They can analyse what's going on and advise accordingly. Also, as Bilbo says, watch out for other daily activities that can give rise to wrist tendonitis. A google search will throw up lists of usual suspects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_5 Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 I had this a few years back too, acupuncture sorted it out and it hasn't returned since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted January 19, 2012 Author Share Posted January 19, 2012 (edited) I don't think a strap adjustment will fix it on the Thumb, just because the neck is thrust out to the left further than most basses due to the short top horn, the lower positions are always going to be further away. With my little girly wrists it's never going to work I don't think. Really gutted because I always wanted a Thumb and I love the sound and feel and everything about it. I am aware that simple over-use can cause tendonitis, but I write software for a living so I have to use a computer for most of the day. I'm pretty good about keeping my wrists straight and typing correctly though. And occam's razor suggests that it's mostly the bass guitar which is doing me the mischief. Discreet: Thanks for that link I'll read it over at lunch. Edited January 19, 2012 by thisnameistaken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Caplan Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 it might be worth looking at the root cause of the discomfort in your wrists, and thinking about a solution from that point of view. have you discussed it with your doctor? things like carpel tunnel can be treated. they might be able to suggest some physio for you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted January 19, 2012 Author Share Posted January 19, 2012 The doctor has advised me to try to manage it because it had been improving. The treatment options are steroid injections or surgery, but my doc doesn't think my condition is bad enough to recommend either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassBunny Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Had the same problem recently, (and still get the odd twinge in both wrist and elbow loint). Went to physio who explained what the problem was and gave me a series of excercises to strengthen the muscles. That appears to have done the trick as it now happens pretty infrequently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 [quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1326968219' post='1504338'] ....HAve you tried a radical strap adjustment so you are always playing with straight wrists?.... [/quote] +1 [size=4]After playing for half an hour I was experiencing some elbow pain so I lengthened the strap. This let me tip the bass up a little more which straightened out my wrist and opened up my elbow joint. It was only an inch, not exactly radical, but it changed the way I held the bass and sorted me out. [/size] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmccombe7 Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 [quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1326967282' post='1504312'] Back story: I've had tendon problems in both wrists for the last couple of years but since I finished my last bass guitar gig in July last year and have only played double bass since then my wrists have gradually recovered and I haven't had any pain/scratchiness from either wrist for a couple of months. Last night I had a jam with some new musicians I'm trying to shoe-horn into a band, and I played my Thumb bass for about three hours. Woke up this morning and my left wrist is not feeling too great. So I'm thinking I may have to shift my beloved Thumb bass and look for something more comfortable to play. I would rather not go with a short-scale bass if I can avoid it, but apart from that obviously my primary concern is a bass I can actually play on a daily basis. I'm a little bit worried that I was often playing a Jazz during the period I started with wrist problems but perhaps with a strap adjustment I can get a Fender working OK. Any suggestions? I'm also tempted to look at fives, but that's probably a silly idea. [/quote] I also have Thumb bass and find that my wrist aches a bit if using for long periods. I've always put it down to the length of the neck in relation to body and how that sits on the strap. If i bring the body further back and the headstock gets drawn closer to my body then it makes the bass easier to play. I don't experience this with my other standard Fender style basses. Have you tried different positions, heights maybe that might help. Would be a shame to get rid of a bass you like. Cheers Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Rich Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 It may have more to do with where you're placing your thumb on the back of the neck. I saw someone demonstrating this on youtube, basically if you have your thumb in the natural relaxed position when your hand is open and waggle your fingers they feel nice and free and relaxed. Now if you move your thumb into the position taught by most guitar teachers so that it acts as a pivot behind your second finger, now waggle your fingers and the back of your hand will feel tight and less free. Combine that with gripping a clubby old neck like the one Warwick seem to favour and it's a recipe for disaster. If instead of placing your thumb like a pivot but move it so it points up the neck towards the headstock you should feel more relaxed plus it'll tend to bring your wrist upwards and ease the angle of your hand in relation to your arm. You might need to adjust your finger positions a little on the board but it should result in a more relaxed left hand. Hope that makes some kind of sense! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted January 19, 2012 Author Share Posted January 19, 2012 That does make sense but it seems like it might just cause different problems? I don't know. Wouldn't imagine this would be practical on a bass with a volute on the heel joint but fortunately my old Thumb with its SLIM AND COMFORTABLE NECK () doesn't have a volute. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Rich Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 The only different problem it sometimes causes is on passages that need strictly 1 finger per fret low down the neck, sometimes it puts your fingers at a slightly wonky angle. I just bring my thumb up the neck for the pivot as required and then slide it up towards the headstock again at the first opportunity. Basically it's all about getting your fretting hand as relaxed as possible and straightening your wrist out if you can. It definitely helped me along, I rarely get any twinges although I'm not playing as much as I did. Worth a try I reckon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted January 19, 2012 Author Share Posted January 19, 2012 Yeah I guess. Problem with the Thumb though is in the lowest position my hand is going to be at an angle to my wrist regardless of how I hold the neck (if I want to use more than one finger anyway!) and it's that particular position of the wrist that bothers my tendons the most. That's why I was thinking that the best solution may be to move the nut closer to me, so my wrist can be straight when playing down there. Unfortunately this would mean buying another bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johngh Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 [quote name='paul_5' timestamp='1326970025' post='1504375'] I had this a few years back too, acupuncture sorted it out and it hasn't returned since. [/quote] When playing I've had both wrists lock up within a minute of each other at one gig, I think this was just chronic cramp though. I've also had pains in both wrists and fingers I know acupuncture works because I've had this done myself. I'm lucky though, my wife is qualified in clinical acupuncture, she is also qualified in KORE Therapy. KORE Therapy aids recovery through its integrative medicine techniques. It uses a unique combination of Western diagnostic & assessments, Eastern release techniques, with a mixture of psychologies & philosophies to help clients with the most chronic conditions make a break through to recovery and good health. It's been incredible seeing the recovery results of some of the people she's treated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaypup Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 If you hadn't played football for 6months and then played a 3 hour game last night, you'd be aching all over today! Give your wrists time to get used to electric bass again by going in to it slowly, and make sure you warm up too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheddatom Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 can't you move the strap button around and attach the strap to the headstock like with an acoustic guitar? That might move the nut closer to you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted January 19, 2012 Author Share Posted January 19, 2012 [quote name='cheddatom' timestamp='1326984826' post='1504722'] can't you move the strap button around and attach the strap to the headstock like with an acoustic guitar? That might move the nut closer to you [/quote] Have you ever done that with a solidbody? One false move and the whole thing slips - headstock into your shoulder and bass body into your knee. My Thumb is a heavy bass too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 It seems logical (to me anyway) that the combination of the unnatural angle that the left wrist assumes in the lower positions plus the sheer distance to the Thumb's nut (due to its unusual body vs neck gemoetry) must be exacerbating matters and that to find a playing position or bass which brings your left wrist closer to your body can only be beneficial. I doubt anything you do with the Thumb (eg, strap button placement, different strap) could change that fact in any meaningful way, sadly. Probably does mean a new bass if you are keen to go electric in a serious way. A bass where the body sits easily across you and where - contrary to some suggestions - there is a thicker neck may mean an easier grip. I still get pains from my broken left hand and find I get less cramp with a thicker neck than a skinnier neck, I assume because there is less tension in the hands as you curl your fingers into the ball shape. You might consider it a dull bass by comparison but have you thought of borrowing a good old Fender P from someone (as opposed to skinnier necked Jazz)? The body hangs very naturally, can be moved a little laterally to your right so you can pluck nearer the neck with a straight-ish right wrist and in so doing brings the nut towards you? Just a thought. And then there is also a short scale, not all of which look like kid's learner basses! Warwick are going to be making some short scale basses according to a post by Throwoff today, which might be your ideal half-way house? Good luck mate in getting this sorted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longtimefred Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 i had a similar problem a few years ago where the doctors told me that my wrist joint has started wearing out due to my bass playing style. Luckily i caught it in time and i lifted my bass higher than it was (down by my bloody knees!!) and made sure my wrist angle was a lot straighter. I was gonna say it but looks like you already have, the main thing is to get the nut closer to you, my old Spector seemed a mile away to the first fret so i changed to my MM Stingray which is a lot closer and i never had a problem since. I just have to keep following those rules really. Hope you get something sorted. Will Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martthebass Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 I've had this problem on and off for the last few years. What I've found works for me: 1. A shallow profile at the nut 2. P bass not J bass 3. Not neck heavy (so I don't have to support the neck) I guess none of this bodes well for the a thumb bass (I had one for a year, loved the sound but my wrist hated it). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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