Mic For Bass Amp

[Jag_Bassist]

Hi guys im looking to mic up my bass amp for home studio use as i heard it sounds better for distorted tones compared to DI.

set up is Jaguar bass > pedalboard > tc electronic RH450 > 4x12 cab > "MIC" > Apogee ONE > Macbook Pro

Any Ideas?

price range kinda up to 150 but might go over

[Jimmyp28]

I would say the go to in my experiance limited as though it is would be a
[b] [size=5]AKG [b]D112[/b][/size][/b]

[skej21]

[quote name='Jag_Bassist' timestamp='1327015201' post='1505407']
Hi guys im looking to mic up my bass amp for home studio use as i heard it sounds better for distorted tones compared to a D.I.
[/quote]

In my opinion, you should never rely on one source for your sound. Ideally, you should record a signal from a microphone AND a D.I. and then mix the two together. This will also give you more options in terms of processing after you've recorded.

You'll also find that if you use a dynamic mic to record your cab sound (like an AKG D112) you will lose some definition because of the lack of sensitivity in dynamic mic diaphragms, so having the option to mix in a more defined signal (the D.I. signal) then you have more flexibility.

The sound you want has to be good quality at the input stage. As the saying goes; 'you can't polish a turd'

[Ed_S]

I like my sennheiser e602 mk2, so can recommend that as a good alternative to the AKG.

[Jimmyp28]

[quote name='skej21' timestamp='1327048852' post='1505545']
In my opinion, you should never rely on one source for your sound. Ideally, you should record a signal from a microphone AND a D.I. and then mix the two together. This will also give you more options in terms of processing after you've recorded.

You'll also find that if you use a dynamic mic to record your cab sound (like an AKG D112) you will lose some definition because of the lack of sensitivity in dynamic mic diaphragms, so having the option to mix in a more defined signal (the D.I. signal) then you have more flexibility.

The sound you want has to be good quality at the input stage. As the saying goes; 'you can't polish a turd'
[/quote]

+1 Very good point

[paul_5]

mic choice depends on the sound you want. I've had great 'dirty' bass sounds using DI and a condenser mic (SE 2200a) about 2 feet in front of the cab. The condenser delivered a lot of the mids, which is where the distortion really shone on that particular amp. If you're using a dynamic mic then you'll need to be aware of the 'proximity effect' - basically if your mic is really close to the ca, then you'll get a heavier bass response, so if you want a distorted tone I'd recommend moving the mic a bit further away.

The AKG D112 is a good choice for anything with a lot of low end, but to my ears it doesn't really do grindy / middy / dirty too well.

Sennheiser MD421s are a brilliant all-rounder, but slightly out of your budget (unless you can get a 2nd hand one).

Shure SM 57/58 might work for you a couple of inches from the grille - but you'll probably need to blend in some DI.

Ultimately there are a lot of factors in this equation - size of room, room absorption etc... Just use your ears and do a few test recordings first and also bear in mind that the sound of the bass on its own might not be the right sound in the mix, particularly if you've got distorted guitars in the mix.

Hope this helps, and good luck.

[Happy Jack]

Red5 Audio RVD-1

http://www.red5audio.com/acatalog/Drum_Kit_Mics.html

Currently out of stock, but serious bangs-per-buck.

[51m0n]

I would avoid a kick drum mic (too heavily eq'ed to suck the mids out).

Coupled with a decent DI any good dynamic mic to capture the mids (which is where the majority of the interestin harmonic info is) will sound stellar in a mix. An SM57 or 58 can do this fine, any decent dynamic will do though. The art is in the freqency split between DI and mic - and keeping everything phase aligned..

I'm assuming you dont want to spend the earth, if you did feel the need to splash out then a HEil PR40 is the absolute canine under carriage on bass.

[antonismbass]

[quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1327059275' post='1505766']
I would avoid a kick drum mic (too heavily eq'ed to suck the mids out).
[/quote] +1

However, could I suggest the Audio-Technica ATM-250? It's very different from the usual kick-drum mics and should be close to your budget too. I have the one with the 2 elements (ATM-250DE) and I think that it sounds great...

[brensabre79]

+1 the MD421 - it is pricy though but you can use it for other things. Electrovoice RE-20 also sounds pretty sweet but again expensive.
It depends what you want to achieve though. If you have a good room and you want some more air in the sound you could try using a large diphragm vocal condenser mic positioned a few feet away and blend it with the DI - best combo in my opinion. Also if you're blending with the DI - you don't have to worry about LF response of the mic so much, you could just use an SM57 if you blend with the DI and use the mic'd sound just for the mid and HF...
Some may go white with shock at this but I've recorded a kick drum with great sounding results using a Neumann U87 before (it was [u]several[/u] feet away!).

[Truckstop]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1327055299' post='1505641']
Red5 Audio RVD-1

[url="http://www.red5audio.com/acatalog/Drum_Kit_Mics.html"]http://www.red5audio...m_Kit_Mics.html[/url]

Currently out of stock, but serious bangs-per-buck.
[/quote]

Wow, that looks like a great bit of kit! Ive emailed them to tell me when they come back in stock, you never know, might come in handy one day!

Thanks for that, Jack!

Alex

edit: and having looked through the shop, looks like their kits would be perfect for someone setting up a lttle studio of for someone who wants their own mics for live use! Definitely gonna keep these guys in mind for future reference

Edited February 8, 2012 by Truckstop

[charic]

Interesting thought, I wonder if there's a way to mount a microphone as part of the cabinet (ie. inside the grill).

Would be great to see manufacturers do this!

[brensabre79]

I reckon that would be too close Charic. The closer you are the less you capture the whole tone of the cab the more you get the tone at one part of the speaker cone. For this reason when close miking speakers many find a sweet spot, near the edge is more bassy, less trebly near the centre is treble all the way (maybe something to do with phase cancellation from the cone shape I don't know) so most people mark a spot on the grill where they always mic up the speaker to get a consistent sound for live applications, in the studio its better to mic from further back to get more air into the sound...

[charic]

[quote name='brensabre79' timestamp='1328706243' post='1531388']
I reckon that would be too close Charic. The closer you are the less you capture the whole tone of the cab the more you get the tone at one part of the speaker cone. For this reason when close miking speakers many find a sweet spot, near the edge is more bassy, less trebly near the centre is treble all the way (maybe something to do with phase cancellation from the cone shape I don't know) so most people mark a spot on the grill where they always mic up the speaker to get a consistent sound for live applications, in the studio its better to mic from further back to get more air into the sound...
[/quote]

I know I meant purely to add some interesting dynamics to the recorded sound (this close mic'd I'd expect it would be damn near percussive).

My personal favourite recording technique for bass was:
DI
D112 Close Mic (6" distance and offcentre)
Neumann TLM106 or AKG C414 Distance Mic

[EdwardHimself]

I quite like the AKG D550 for recording bass but if you wanted to get the highs in there as well you would need another microphone, or maybe the DI would do it. I recently did some recordings with the D550, a condenser mic aimed at one of the tweeters and the DI, sounded pretty good.

[brensabre79]

[quote name='charic' timestamp='1328711437' post='1531488']
My personal favourite recording technique for bass was:
DI
D112 Close Mic (6" distance and offcentre)
Neumann TLM106 or AKG C414 Distance Mic
[/quote]
Nice. Sounds pretty close to my perfect setup, I'd have an MD421 up close and a 414 / U87 about 4' away

[charic]

Yeah, was part of my dissertation. Unfortunately I don't have the funds for the mics or an environment to make the most of them.

[brensabre79]

With all the modelling technology these days you probably don't need all that gear if you know what you're doing
I got amp modellers, mic modellers and acoustic space modellers all on my laptop!

[EdwardHimself]

[quote name='brensabre79' timestamp='1328715460' post='1531573']
With all the modelling technology these days you probably don't need all that gear if you know what you're doing
I got amp modellers, mic modellers and acoustic space modellers all on my laptop!
[/quote]

The issue with amp modelling I think is not so much you can't get a credible sound out of it, but the fact that it's not really your sound. I prefered the sound I was getting from using a real bass amp to be honest.

[brensabre79]

[quote name='EdwardHimself' timestamp='1328715886' post='1531583']
The issue with amp modelling I think is not so much you can't get a credible sound out of it, but the fact that it's not really your sound. I prefered the sound I was getting from using a real bass amp to be honest.
[/quote]
I'm a great believer in getting the sound right at the source, and sometimes the only way to do it is with £5,000 worth of microphones, but if you don't have access to that kind of stuff, there are a wide variety of software that can help you get pretty damn close, if you know what you're doing and what you're trying to achieve.

I guess it depends what you use and what you want to get from it... I have an Ampeg plug-in that I DI my bass into, I can choose the Amp & Cabinet and how its miked and with what mic. If I want an Ampeg in a studio sort of sound I have a wide choice of useable rigs right there.

Of course if I'm trying to get the sound of a Trace Elliott in a railway station with a ribbon mic this plug in would be of absolutely no use at all.

To get back to the OP though, rather than spunking a load of cash on expensive mics, it may be that you can get a lot closer to what you want using some (much cheaper) modelling technology than you can with £150 worth of mic... It may also be the case that a simple SM57 and DI blended will do the trick. If you're on a budget and you don't have a properly acoustically treated room and the correct equipment to capture it then modelling might be the way to go

[EdwardHimself]

[quote name='brensabre79' timestamp='1328716800' post='1531602']
I'm a great believer in getting the sound right at the source, and sometimes the only way to do it is with £5,000 worth of microphones, but if you don't have access to that kind of stuff, there are a wide variety of software that can help you get pretty damn close, if you know what you're doing and what you're trying to achieve.

I guess it depends what you use and what you want to get from it... I have an Ampeg plug-in that I DI my bass into, I can choose the Amp & Cabinet and how its miked and with what mic. If I want an Ampeg in a studio sort of sound I have a wide choice of useable rigs right there.

Of course if I'm trying to get the sound of a Trace Elliott in a railway station with a ribbon mic this plug in would be of absolutely no use at all.
[/quote]

My point was that although you can get some perfectly good tones out of modelling software, I could never find something that quite matched up to what I wanted. Then I decided to do an actual recording of my bass amp and I thought it sounded a lot more like how I wanted it to.

[quote]
To get back to the OP though, rather than spunking a load of cash on expensive mics, it may be that you can get a lot closer to what you want using some (much cheaper) modelling technology than you can with £150 worth of mic... It may also be the case that a simple SM57 and DI blended will do the trick. If you're on a budget and you don't have a properly acoustically treated room and the correct equipment to capture it then modelling might be the way to go
[/quote]

Having said that, I would tend to agree with this. You have to do quite a bit of tweaking to get it sounding how you want it, but you can get some pretty good tones out of it, without the expense of buying microphones.

[charic]

An sm57 close micd wouldn't rely on acoustics much though. Aslong as its a quiet room you should be fine.

[Monckyman]

I always use a beta52.
It sounds great on bass.
If I can`t get a 52 I`ll use an AKG D112. Again sounds great.
The mid frequencies are NOT all sucked out they are reasonably flat at 0db
There is a low end hump and a high end hump, but they are easily rolled off if you don`t like that.
The point is that it is [i]capable[/i] of capturing low frequencies,unlike other mics which are useful for capturing the high end stuff, and using a D.I to catch the low end.
[url="http://www.shure.com/idc/groups/public/documents/webcontent/us_pro_beta52a_specsheet.pdf.pdf"]http://www.shure.com/idc/groups/public/documents/webcontent/us_pro_beta52a_specsheet.pdf.pdf[/url]

[url="http://www.ilikemics.com/product_details.php?pid=216"]http://www.ilikemics.com/product_details.php?pid=216[/url]

Both the above charts show flat at 0db with peaks in other areas.
Given that subtractive EQ sounds far more natural than additive, I`m happier rolling lows off than adding mids in.
IMO& IME
Of course.
MM

[51m0n]

How do you go about setting up a mic on a bass cab and kick drum?

Just wondering (seriously)...

[brensabre79]

[quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1329215576' post='1538785']
How do you go about setting up a mic on a bass cab and kick drum?

Just wondering (seriously)...
[/quote]
Not sure what you mean. It goes on a stand in front of the speaker (close as possbile for live, further back for recording in a controlled environment). Same for kick drum, right up close to the beater (on the inside) for attack, further back for boom.
In terms of EQ etc. you have to use your ears, I like to keep most things flat unless they need adjusting (resonant frequencies can be tuned out etc.)
For recording I would compress both these things a little.
For live I'd compress the bass a lot, maybe put a gate on the Kick if it was picking up other stuff on stage, but not essential.
I hope that helps