Faithless Posted January 21, 2012 Author Share Posted January 21, 2012 (edited) [quote name='risingson' timestamp='1327175396' post='1507535'] I expect most people's answer on a site like this would be the same, but I think everything in pop music should be done like this. Live musicians is always where it's at. If you've got the money behind you like Beyonce has then it would be totally shameful to be singing live to tracks. There's no musical integrity to be had from it and your everyday Radio One listener has become totally numb to this fact. They're much wiser to it in the U.S than they are to it here though. You just don't get the same level of importance placed on live musicians in the U.K anymore, and it's so very depressing, considering our popular musical heritage. [/quote] Well, what I'm trying to say, is that I'm wondering why most of big artists stick with programmed/synthetic stuff when making their [i]studio [/i]stuff - CD's, Singles, etc. I know it must be down to money and time (good players are busy, and it's hard to get them together in one place for a record, of course) to a certain extent, but maybe this is something to do with the audience they're selling to - programmed stuff has pretty much taken over the 'studio' music (most of the pop stuff we hear on radio), so maybe listeners are more used to that, rather live-sound based music? I'm just guessing, but I'm not keen at all on this stuff, which probably relates to music-production, so I'd be really interested to hear from guys, who may know more about this.. best- Laimis Edited January 21, 2012 by Faithless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomE Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 [quote name='Faithless' timestamp='1327180305' post='1507629'] Well, what I'm trying to say, is that I'm wondering why most of big artists stick with programmed/synthetic stuff when making their [i]studio [/i]stuff - CD's, Singles, etc. I know it must be down to money and time (good players are busy, and it's hard to get them together in one place for a record, of course) to a certain extent, but maybe this is something to do with the audience they're selling to - programmed stuff has pretty much taken over the 'studio' music (most of the pop stuff we hear on radio), so maybe listeners are more used to that, rather live-sound based music? best- Laimis [/quote] First off that track is superb. Great tight playing - nothing overdone - just bang on. About artists that use synth in studios though - its not a new thing. If you You Tube Chaka Khan, George Benson and Michael Jackson you will find a load of top selling tracks that all heavily feature synth bass. Then check out live versions and many of them feature great bands with electric bass playing the original synth part (with embellishments). I can't really explain why except maybe the decision makers think it sounds better or perhaps it translates better on radio? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faithless Posted January 21, 2012 Author Share Posted January 21, 2012 well, synth bass is ok, but I'm referring to the overall programmed/synthetic sound, that is dominating in most pop studio stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliverBlackman Posted January 21, 2012 Share Posted January 21, 2012 i personally think its great, as it offers a new challenge to us performers. I know an incredible drummer who practices as much Gaga and britney as he does jazz fusion and latin because for him its more of a challenge to replicate a drum beat thats been chopped up, quantised ect. I do also believe the reason for it being so present in todays chart "music" is because it goes down well at clubs and what goes down well at clubs often are higher in the charts these days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risingson Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 [quote name='geoffbassist' timestamp='1327179757' post='1507610'] Risingson you are so right. Where's the x factor band? At least Strictly has a band. This is a great thread. Im loving the music! [/quote] I know! You tune into American Idol, you at least get to watch Ricky Minor and the house band rip it up a little. Likewise with the BBC stuff, they're good with the live musicians a lot of the time. [quote name='Faithless' timestamp='1327180305' post='1507629'] Well, what I'm trying to say, is that I'm wondering why most of big artists stick with programmed/synthetic stuff when making their [i]studio [/i]stuff - CD's, Singles, etc. I know it must be down to money and time (good players are busy, and it's hard to get them together in one place for a record, of course) to a certain extent, but maybe this is something to do with the audience they're selling to - programmed stuff has pretty much taken over the 'studio' music (most of the pop stuff we hear on radio), so maybe listeners are more used to that, rather live-sound based music? I'm just guessing, but I'm not keen at all on this stuff, which probably relates to music-production, so I'd be really interested to hear from guys, who may know more about this.. best- Laimis [/quote] I think you answered your own question with the money and time thing. It's very much a production line ideal. Being able to roll out major top 40 hits with just a few people on a track. Of course the production line thing isn't anything new - it's been a staple part of the music business for years and indeed has completely characterised certain label's sound as we know it (Motown being the classic example), but of course the way we make music today is totally different from how it was made 40 years ago, and has been facilitated by the advent of technology that has on the one hand made making music incredibly affordable and easy, but on the other hand has partially drowned out the need for the human touch. All of this combined with the fact that major labels aren't taking risks on stuff anymore, and why would you in the current climate? It's depressing but true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomProddy Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 This would be such a good track to do the first dance at a wedding.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiwi Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Just love the sound of well programmed rnb/dance pop act like Beyonce, Kylie, Prince, Alicia Keys or Destiny's Child brought to life by a well rehearsed band. It's the absolute nuts for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjones Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 I was in New York in 2006 and got talking to Kim Thompson who was playing in a band in a little bar in the village call The 55 Bar. She was backing a guitarist (who I didn't realise at the time was Mike Stern ex Miles Davis guitarist) and she and the band were really cooking. She told me she was playing the next week with Beyonce in LA and I have to say I assumed she was pulling my leg and telling porky pies. But no there she is in your video giving it waldy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faithless Posted January 22, 2012 Author Share Posted January 22, 2012 [quote name='gjones' timestamp='1327227115' post='1507911'] I was in New York in 2006 and got talking to Kim Thompson who was playing in a band in a little bar in the village call The 55 Bar. She was backing a guitarist (who I didn't realise at the time was Mike Stern ex Miles Davis guitarist) and she and the band were really cooking. She told me she was playing the next week with Beyonce in LA and I have to say I assumed she was pulling my leg and telling porky pies. But no there she is in your video giving it waldy! [/quote] A bit OT but, who was on bass that night, wasnt it Janek Gwizdala? And yeah, Stern uses to play in 55bar all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjones Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 [quote name='Faithless' timestamp='1327231075' post='1507971'] A bit OT but, who was on bass that night, wasnt it Janek Gwizdala? And yeah, Stern uses to play in 55bar all the time. [/quote] It was a chunky black guy playing a 5 string if I remember rightly. One thing I remember is that his playing was very restrained but right on the button and he and Kim really made a supertight rhythm section. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faithless Posted January 22, 2012 Author Share Posted January 22, 2012 I know Anthony Jackson used to play with Stern, but he plays a 6string, doesnt he.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjones Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 [quote name='Faithless' timestamp='1327232263' post='1507991'] I know Anthony Jackson used to play with Stern, but he plays a 6string, doesnt he.. [/quote] Checked him out and that definitely looks like the guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fender73 Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Great band - whenever i see live hip-hop / RnB etc drummers, they always have the sound (well tuned kit/sharp snare etc) that i love Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chardbass Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 I suppose the 'synthetic' backing sells the songs and gets the airplay which inturn gets people to buy tickets to see the live gig and, bam, there's your live band with huge mother***ing arrangements and all sorts of gospel stuff to boot. The only downside is that whenever I have seen these kind of bands, all those tasty stabs, unison lines, chords subs etc get lost in the crappy acoustics of the venue they are playing- you have to wait for the live DVD or the YouTube clip of the rehearsal etc +1 on what the general vibe is here though. Live gigs are about entertainment- the best know how to entertain their fans and casual admirers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevB Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 [quote name='SteveK' timestamp='1327159825' post='1507215'] I know a few drummers who, had they been 'told off' by an engineer (BBC or not), would have presented said engineer with a nice bit of bling...in the shape of a snare drum necklace. EDIT: Thinking about it, I know a bass player who would be none too happy about either [/quote] I say cut the guy some slack, he's just trying to do his job. Chances are he hasn't been given enough time to EQ / mix the full band anyway and then when he starts trying to get proper individual levels the drummer starts barraging round the kit. In his shoes I'd probably have told her 'Save it for the show, luv' too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nottswarwick Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Too right, that is not the way to behave when checking the kit, at least at first. [quote name='KevB' timestamp='1327323593' post='1509238'] I say cut the guy some slack, he's just trying to do his job. Chances are he hasn't been given enough time to EQ / mix the full band anyway and then when he starts trying to get proper individual levels the drummer starts barraging round the kit. In his shoes I'd probably have told her 'Save it for the show, luv' too [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveK Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 [quote name='KevB' timestamp='1327323593' post='1509238'] I say cut the guy some slack, he's just trying to do his job. Chances are he hasn't been given enough time to EQ / mix the full band anyway and then when he starts trying to get proper individual levels the drummer starts barraging round the kit. In his shoes I'd probably have told her 'Save it for the show, luv' too [/quote] [quote name='nottswarwick' timestamp='1327328624' post='1509349'] Too right, that is not the way to behave when checking the kit, at least at first. [/quote]For the most part EQing and levels will have been done by the crew before the band arrives. Drummers have a problem that singers, bass players, keyboard players etc don't have, inasmuch as they're not able to have a kit set up in the dressing room. It isn't a case of 'save it for the show' more a case of, when they've been on the road for a couple of weeks the only time that they can really stretch and loosen up is at soundcheck. The drummer will perform, or at least [i]feel[/i] that he will perform better having had a 'blat' around the kit for a few minutes before hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 [quote name='SteveK' timestamp='1327331137' post='1509411'] Drummers have a problem that singers, bass players, keyboard players etc don't have, inasmuch as they're not able to have a kit set up in the dressing room. [/quote] You obviously haven't seen back stage at a Rush gig then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nottswarwick Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 Fair point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveK Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 [quote name='dave_bass5' timestamp='1327331471' post='1509418'] You obviously haven't seen back stage at a Rush gig then [/quote]No, I haven't had that pleasure. I'm now trying to imagine Neil Peart being 'told off' by a BBC engineer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jayben Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 I like to think that Mr. Peart would flip him off, laugh, and then buy the guy a beer after the show before riding off into the sunset on his motorbike... I understand why drummers do that, but nearly every soundcheck I've witnessed (minus festivals and stadiums) involves a run-through a song to check that everything works and make sure the drummist is limbered up. I have to say, I feel lucky with my drummist being so disciplined and well behaved ^.^ With regards Divinity Roxx, I've found a new hero! I've been checking out a lot of her stuff outside of Beyonce, and it's flippin great! She's an inspiring bass player to listen to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 [quote name='Jayben' timestamp='1327334782' post='1509493'] I like to think that Mr. Peart would flip him off, laugh, and then buy the guy a beer after the show before riding off into the sunset on his motorbike... [/quote] Joking aside i think Mr Peart would probably take on board what he was asked to do, after all, a sound guy is there for a reason and while the people on the other end of the mulitcore may well they think they know best its not always the case, espeically if your sitting behnd a drum kit and have no idea whats going on out front sound wise Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 [quote name='Jayben' timestamp='1327334782' post='1509493'] I like to think that Mr. Peart would flip him off, laugh, and then buy the guy a beer after the show before riding off into the sunset on his motorbike... I understand why drummers do that, but nearly every soundcheck I've witnessed (minus festivals and stadiums) involves a run-through a song to check that everything works and make sure the drummist is limbered up. I have to say, I feel lucky with my drummist being so disciplined and well behaved ^.^ [b]With regards Divinity Roxx, I've found a new hero! I've been checking out a lot of her stuff outside of Beyonce, and it's flippin great! She's an inspiring bass player to listen to.[/b] [/quote] Yep, Div is so f***ing cool! Watching this vid has made me want to double on keyboard synth bass, so I'm getting one. Tried before but only with a titchy MicroKorg which isn't much good for piano. I've wanted to learn some piano so I hope to get something with 61 keys. I quite fancy a Juno G, like Div's got Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 [quote name='silddx' timestamp='1327335636' post='1509516'] Yep, Div is so f***ing cool! Watching this vid has made me want to double on keyboard synth bass, [/quote] Im planning to use one of the synth bass tones in Garageband on my iPad at my next gig, and ill play it live Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted January 23, 2012 Share Posted January 23, 2012 [quote name='dave_bass5' timestamp='1327335860' post='1509521'] Im planning to use one of the synth bass tones in Garageband on my iPad at my next gig, and ill play it live [/quote] Brilliant! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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