So what is a Jazz bass and what is the best example?

[Darkstrike]

[quote name='bubinga5' timestamp='1327193011' post='1507770']
erm..... a jazz bass has 2 jazz pickups in either 2 positions.. that bass has neither... when you move or customise a pickup config, its a hybrid... that lovely bass is no longer a jazz bass.. i can bet it sounds very different... its like having a Ferrari and putting a Maserati engine in it..

it used to be a jazz bass, but someone has changed it and turned a jazz bass into something different.. it sound silly to be so pedantic and im sure i sound like a nerd, but the line has to be drawn somewhere, and that is what this thread is about.. bet it sound very cool though
[/quote]

Does that mean Jaco's bass wasn't a Jazz, because he pulled the frets out and the pickguard off, making it different from what Fender envisioned? Not to mention he used to put a P bass neck on it sometimes...

[Jacqueslemac]

Technically, only Fender can make a bass and call it a Jazz. Everyone else has to call it something else, although they'll stil be referred to as a "jazz" bass.

With that in mind, are we talking about what makes a bass part of the jazz family, or are we referring to basses properly called Jazz?

Whichever. It is, it seems that the definition becomes more and more elastic as times passes.

[OldG]

[quote name='bubinga5' timestamp='1327196440' post='1507815']
are those Tokais that good then.. never played one... Japanese i take it? heard lots about them
[/quote]

Yup! Bought mine in '89 - wouldn't dream of letting it go....

[Grand Wazoo]

[quote name='Linus27' timestamp='1327148838' post='1506966']
OK, so ...

I would be interested in hearing the interpritation of what the Fender Jazz is tonally and its relation to other brands take on the Jazz bass especially in regards to the pickups and tone a Jazz should have.
[/quote]

In response to the Original Poster's question Leo Fender invented the Jazz Bass to give an alternative to electric bass players to his original design of the Precision bass. He wanted to achieve a few goals with this new bass, one was to have more tonal variety than the P bass with the focus on achiecing a more midrange and brighter sound to compete with the Rickenbacker bass introuduced in 1957 which was reknowned by being very bright. He did this by featuring two individual single coil pickups with indipendent volume and tone controls which when both on full volume would hum cancel each other by wiring them in series, and the offset body / narrower neck were borrowed by the Jazzmaster guitar, seen as the original p bass was built to match the Telecaster the Jazz bass inherited most of the look feautures of the Jazzmaster.

The main features of a Jazz bass are 2 single coil pickups that could be blended together or played solo, the neck pickup sound is fairly similar to that of a P bass but the bridge pickup was the new "animal" feature of this bass, punchy, bright and full of harmonics, this pickup became Jaco's signature go to sound he used to pluck it right up the bridge with a 70% chocked tone control and fast syncopated lines to reproduce that nasal, burpy in your face sound that became immediately recognizable as the Jaco's sound in songs like Punk Jazz, Barbary Coast, Teen Town, and many other.

70's funk, soul, blues and even jazz bands all incorporated the Jazz Bass as the bass to have because of it's ability to embrace a wider sound spectrum than the P bass who in its greatness remained a one trick pony, although a great one at that.

Of course other companies have "borrowed" the design and milked it to the max from Aria to Zon you can get a Jazz bass sound in a million different basses but then the choice is spoiled by exotic woods, active preamps and all other features that expanded on the original concept but sadly the more the features the less the similarity in sound with the original Fender bass which in conclusions it means if you want the real thing buy an original Fender bass or one from another company which have kept the features as close as possible to the original.

[Prime_BASS]

to me a jazz bass is defined by the singlecoils in the traditional positions. I don't so much like the 70's spacing. At the same time Jazzes do not do it for me at all.

The Best fender Jazz I have played is the Roadworn, definatly above its own price range and for a MIM fantastic.
Sadowsky makes a few stunners.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='Grand Wazoo' timestamp='1327220639' post='1507851']
In response to the Original Poster's question Leo Fender invented the Jazz Bass to give an alternative to electric bass players to his original design of the Precision bass. He wanted to achieve a few goals with this new bass, one was to have more tonal variety than the P bass with the focus on achiecing a more midrange and brighter sound to compete with the Rickenbacker bass introuduced in 1957 which was reknowned by being very bright. He did this by featuring two individual single coil pickups with indipendent volume and tone controls which when both on full volume would hum cancel each other by wiring them in series, and the offset body / narrower neck were borrowed by the Jazzmaster guitar, seen as the original p bass was built to match the Telecaster the Jazz bass inherited most of the look feautures of the Jazzmaster.

The main features of a Jazz bass are 2 single coil pickups that could be blended together or played solo, the neck pickup sound is fairly similar to that of a P bass but the bridge pickup was the new "animal" feature of this bass, punchy, bright and full of harmonics, this pickup became Jaco's signature go to sound he used to pluck it right up the bridge with a 70% chocked tone control and fast syncopated lines to reproduce that nasal, burpy in your face sound that became immediately recognizable as the Jaco's sound in songs like Punk Jazz, Barbary Coast, Teen Town, and many other.

70's funk, soul, blues and even jazz bands all incorporated the Jazz Bass as the bass to have because of it's ability to embrace a wider sound spectrum than the P bass who in its greatness remained a one trick pony, although a great one at that.

Of course other companies have "borrowed" the design and milked it to the max from Aria to Zon you can get a Jazz bass sound in a million different basses but then the choice is spoiled by exotic woods, active preamps and all other features that expanded on the original concept but sadly the more the features the less the similarity in sound with the original Fender bass which in conclusions it means if you want the real thing buy an original Fender bass or one from another company which have kept the features as close as possible to the original.
[/quote]
The narrower neck of the Jazz bass was in order to attract more guitarists to electric bass playing.

BTW, the Precision Bass is not at all a one trick pony.

[Fat Rich]

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1327171879' post='1507455']
... and here's another Jazz bass:


[/quote]

I would say historically the PJ configuration came about more from people adding a Jazz pickup to their Precision basses than people changing the neck pickup in a Jazz bass to a split P bass pickup..... so it's more of a Precision than a Jazz Although the now the PJ configuration has been adopted by so many other manufacturers it's probably irrelevant.

As far as best examples, for [u]me[/u] there are three types of Jazz bass:

'62 pre CBS spec - slim neck, no frills, light body, nitro finish - made by anyone, Fender, Tokai, Squier, etc
Mid 70s CBS - chubby neck, heavier ash body, maple neck and slab markers (I'd maybe allow a Badass II bridge on these, but no fancy electrics)
Super Jazz - Any Jazz with a high mass bridge or fancy pickups or active preamps whether they're made by Fender, or by Sadowsky, Sandberg, or anyone. As long as they still have a trace of that Jazz bass sound.

I would like to say there was a high tech innovative fourth option brought out by Fender at some time that moved bass design forward, sounded great and still retained the Jazz bass vibe. Maybe the closest we've got is the Dingwall fanned fret super Jazz. Or maybe a retrofit Status / Modulus / Moses graphite neck?

[Conan]

Some of the best examples of sparkling dry white wines are made outside the French region of Champagne. They are, therefore, not "Champagne" and not allowed to call themselves such.

Doesn't stop them being better and more pleasurable than the "original" though!

Does that make sense?

[Musicman20]

I've tried boutique 'jazz' basses, mainly Sadowsky, and no, they don't sound close enough to the Fender tone. A much dryer, flatter, less exciting tone. Hardly any of that jazz grind when both pups are on.

Indeed, I ventured into trying many brands, just to see if I could own a non Fender Jazz. It didn't work..,they were all super-jazz basses (more modern and often quite polite sounding) or the QC (in the Lakland Skylines) was worse than the Fenders. Eventually I just gambled on Fender again and got a good one!

Edited January 22, 2012 by Musicman20

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='Fat Rich' timestamp='1327228489' post='1507929']
I would say historically the PJ configuration came about more from people adding a Jazz pickup to their Precision basses than people changing the neck pickup in a Jazz bass to a split P bass pickup..... so it's more of a Precision than a Jazz ...
[/quote]
It has a Jazz body, a Jazz neck, and one Jazz pickup, and Fender sell it as a Jazz bass. One Jazz pickup is replaced by a Precision pickup. I'd say it's not a P/J, if anything it's a J/P, but it's definitely not a Precision, it's much more a Jazz bass.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1327229682' post='1507943']
Some of the best examples of sparkling dry white wines are made outside the French region of Champagne. They are, therefore, not "Champagne" and not allowed to call themselves such.

Doesn't stop them being better and more pleasurable than the "original" though!

Does that make sense?
[/quote]
'It's a lovely drink, that Cava'.

Edited January 22, 2012 by EssentialTension

[discreet]

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1327230733' post='1507963']
'It's a lovely drink, that Cava'. [/quote]

Nah, gimme a good swig of White Lightning any day.

[sussexbassman]

OK, IMO the best Jazz bass is the Reggie Hamilton

[Grand Wazoo]

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1327222840' post='1507864']
The narrower neck of the Jazz bass was in order to attract more guitarists to electric bass playing.

BTW, the Precision Bass is not at all a one trick pony.
[/quote]

Absolutey, I didn't mean that badly for one second I love a passive P bass me, all I meant is that it doesn't have the extra versatility of a 2 pickup bass and it stands in that same frequency response for ever and ever amen, although its a great sound, I would add that it's THE right sound for many styles of music but thats all it does sonically compared to multy p/up basses.

Edited January 22, 2012 by Grand Wazoo

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='Grand Wazoo' timestamp='1327256106' post='1508439']
Absolutey, I didn't mean that badly for one second I love a passive P bass me, all I meant is that it doesn't have the extra versatility of a 2 pickup bass and it stands in that same frequency response for ever and ever amen, although its a great sound, I would add that it's THE right sound for many styles of music but thats all it does sonically compared to multy p/up basses.
[/quote]
Fair enough, but I'd still say the Precision can have a range of sounds/tones with judicious use of EQ, movement of the right hand between bridge and fingerboard, pick or fingers, round or flatwound etc. JJ Burnel does not sound at all like James Jamerson, nor like Carol Kaye.

[OliverBlackman]

[quote name='bubinga5' timestamp='1327196440' post='1507815']
are those Tokais that good then.. never played one... Japanese i take it? heard lots about them
[/quote]

yhp, i've tried lots of passive jazz basses since. Fender Custom shop's, early and late 70's originals, US standards, US RI and none were even close to the feel or sound that the tokai produces. I think mine was made somewhere between 84 and 86 and i got it off here for £350!

[Prime_BASS]

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1327230302' post='1507951']
I've tried boutique 'jazz' basses, mainly Sadowsky, and no, they don't sound close enough to the Fender tone. A much dryer, flatter, less exciting tone. Hardly any of that jazz grind when both pups are on.

Indeed, I ventured into trying many brands, just to see if I could own a non Fender Jazz. It didn't work..,they were all super-jazz basses (more modern and often quite polite sounding) or the QC (in the Lakland Skylines) was worse than the Fenders. Eventually I just gambled on Fender again and got a good one!
[/quote]

Same for me in the EBMM Stingray copies. Other brands with the MM type of pickup just seem like they are missing something, although I'm happy with my corvette (for now) it's definatly not the same as my sterling or stingray. Polite is a good way of putting it. The "faillings" of fender or EBMM is what makes them sound unique, but I guess it helps having the pedigree aswell.

I'm sure if Sandberg or Sadowsky came round first then people would be saying the "nothing is like a sadowsky jazz". but that arguement has been done to death.

[Linus27]

[quote name='Darkstrike' timestamp='1327203146' post='1507837']
Does that mean Jaco's bass wasn't a Jazz, because he pulled the frets out and the pickguard off, making it different from what Fender envisioned? Not to mention he used to put a P bass neck on it sometimes...
[/quote]

No, it was a Jazz bass in its original state when first purchased. What he did to it afterwards is up to him. Removing the pickguard is probably like changing the laces in your trainers from black ones to white ones. Removing the frets is like removing the laces all together but they still remain as trainers. Its like like they suddenly turn into Wellington boots.

[Linus27]

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1327230691' post='1507961']
It has a Jazz body, a Jazz neck, and one Jazz pickup, and Fender sell it as a Jazz bass. One Jazz pickup is replaced by a Precision pickup. I'd say it's not a P/J, if anything it's a J/P, but it's definitely not a Precision, it's much more a Jazz bass.
[/quote]

Again and this is splitting hairs and down to interpritation but for me (I take it this is the Reggie Hamilton Bass you have shown) Fender actually call this the Reggie Hamilton Standard Jazz Bass and not just the Standard Jazz bass. It comes with a P pickup and a J pickup, a bass extender and is active/passive. Those features were not on the original concept of Leo's first Jazz so to me this is just Fenders evolution of their Jazz bass in the same way that the latest Mini Cooper is an evolution of the 60's Mini Cooper. In my opinion, giving a total stranger and non bass playing person a Reggie Hamilton Jazz bass and saying this is true representation of an original Jazz bass based on Leo Fenders original concept would be very misleading.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='Linus27' timestamp='1327259664' post='1508515']
Again and this is splitting hairs and down to interpritation but for me (I take it this is the Reggie Hamilton Bass you have shown) Fender actually call this the Reggie Hamilton Standard Jazz Bass and not just the Standard Jazz bass. It comes with a P pickup and a J pickup, a bass extender and is active/passive. Those features were not on the original concept of Leo's first Jazz so to me this is just Fenders evolution of their Jazz bass in the same way that the latest Mini Cooper is an evolution of the 60's Mini Cooper. In my opinion, giving a total stranger and non bass playing person a Reggie Hamilton Jazz bass and saying this is true representation of an original Jazz bass based on Leo Fenders original concept would be very misleading.
[/quote]
Yes, but I've never once said the Reggie Hamilton or any other bass (Jazz or otherwise) was a true representation of what you call an 'original' Jazz. I was only claiming that it's part of a large family of basses that can be (and usually are) labelled as Jazz basses. I hadn't realised we were in search of the one and only original Jazz.

Even the nature of an 'original' Jazz is not necessarily simple to pin down unless you take it to be the bass that Fender first marketed as the Jazz bass in 1960 - so I presume it has the offset body, the 1.5" nut, stack knob VTVT controls, and two single coil pickups in the sixties not the seventies position, it has frets, dots, no binding, no preamp, an earth wire from pickup to bridge, etc. and nothing else can qualify as the original - excpet perhaps the various protoypes.

But none of that stops other basses, that don't quite reach that standard, being Jazz basses too.

Not sure where that emoticon came from !!!!!

[Musicman20]

[quote name='Prime_BASS' timestamp='1327258354' post='1508479']
Same for me in the EBMM Stingray copies. Other brands with the MM type of pickup just seem like they are missing something, although I'm happy with my corvette (for now) it's definatly not the same as my sterling or stingray. Polite is a good way of putting it. The "faillings" of fender or EBMM is what makes them sound unique, but I guess it helps having the pedigree aswell.
[/quote]

This is true. I've tried other humbuckers on other brands, in exactly the same sweetspot (even a proper Ray with a replacement) and I STILL think the Ernie Ball/Musicman/original design has SOMETHING about it...and I can't put my finger on it. Just a really individual tone.

Even when Musicman make other basses, with a different position (HH Bongo, Big Al SSS) they STILL have that unique sound...its weird, but I like it.

I've just seen the new arrival of Lakland basses (including Jazzes) at GuitarGuitar. My word, their string to pup, and string to centre of fretboard alignment, is WELL off on most of them. My USA 2011 Jazz is perfect, and allows you to move the string alignment if needs be.

[Darkstrike]

[quote name='Linus27' timestamp='1327258903' post='1508498']
No, it was a Jazz bass in its original state when first purchased. What he did to it afterwards is up to him.
[/quote]
As was the Tractor, this is exactly my point.

[quote name='Linus27' timestamp='1327258903' post='1508498']Removing the pickguard is probably like changing the laces in your trainers from black ones to white ones. Removing the frets is like removing the laces all together but they still remain as trainers. Its like like they suddenly turn into Wellington boots.
[/quote]

Indeed, but technically Jaco's Jazz neither looked, nor sounded like Fender intended. Definitely not an "original Jazz" as it were.

[Blademan_98]

Just sitting here, looking at my Jaco bass hanging on the wall, I've got to say it looks rather nice

To me, a Jazz Bass is as Leo made them back in the day and all else (including my Jaco) is a copy.

Both of my 'Jazz' basses sound great but are only Jazz in name.

I wouldn't part with either at the moment as they are superb

[sussexbassman]

[quote name='Linus27' timestamp='1327259664' post='1508515']
Again and this is splitting hairs and down to interpritation but for me (I take it this is the Reggie Hamilton Bass you have shown) Fender actually call this the Reggie Hamilton Standard Jazz Bass and not just the Standard Jazz bass. It comes with a P pickup and a J pickup, a bass extender and is active/passive. Those features were not on the original concept of Leo's first Jazz so to me this is just Fenders evolution of their Jazz bass in the same way that the latest Mini Cooper is an evolution of the 60's Mini Cooper. In my opinion, giving a total stranger and non bass playing person a Reggie Hamilton Jazz bass and saying this is true representation of an original Jazz bass based on Leo Fenders original concept would be very misleading.
[/quote]

Very true, it is an evolution and not original. But for me, the added dimensions of versatility to cover P and J styles, drop D tuner and active or passive choices makes it a very pleasing evolution!

[sussexbassman]

The only negative I would say about the RHJ is being MIM, the quality is not quite as good in some areas.