xilddx Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 LH and Silent Fly, thanks so much! Um, have I missed something? [b]A 4-String version?[/b] I only play four string basses, is it designed more for ERBs then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Fly Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 [quote name='silddx' timestamp='1328555998' post='1529073'] Um, have I missed something? [b]A 4-String version?[/b] I only play four string basses, is it designed more for ERBs then?[/quote] The micro-Thumpianator is designed for 5 (or 6) string bass. A 4 string version doesn't exist. I can design and build 4 string version as a Custom Shop on request. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Silent Fly' timestamp='1328556255' post='1529080'] The micro-Thumpianator is designed for 5 (or 6) string bass. [/quote] Just to be quite clear, does that mean it can't be used with 4-string basses? Would a Custom Shop 4-string version be much more expensive? Edited February 6, 2012 by discreet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 [quote name='Silent Fly' timestamp='1328556255' post='1529080'] The micro-Thumpianator is designed for 5 (or 6) string bass. A 4 string version doesn't exist. I can design and build 4 string version as a Custom Shop on request. [/quote] Sorry for wasting my own, and everyone else's time Where does it say it's designed for 5 (or 6) string bass though? Saw nowt on your website or on here, unless I'm blind I was very seriously considering buying one too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 (edited) [quote name='silddx' timestamp='1328556630' post='1529092'] Where does it say it's designed for 5 (or 6) string bass though? [/quote] Didn't see that either... Must admit to being a bit baffled by this... If it works for a 5-string, why not a 4? Surely a 4 would still benefit from subsonic frequency removal? Or is it just not a problem with a 4 because it doesn't go as low as a 5 or 6? Does this mean that you don't need a Thumpinator if you have a 4? Can someone give me an explanation? Why is there only one Monopolies Commission? Am I asking too many questions? Edited February 6, 2012 by discreet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmmettC Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 I think it can be used with 4 strings, but the frequency cut off is low enough for lowB, so lower than a 4 string can go, but should still cut off lots of the sub-bass inaudible stuff though. I think! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmmettC Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1328556951' post='1529100'] Why is there only one Monopolies Commission? [/quote] Ha Ha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 [quote name='EmmettC' timestamp='1328557017' post='1529102'] I think it can be used with 4 strings, but the frequency cut off is low enough for lowB, so lower than a 4 string can go, but should still cut off lots of the sub-bass inaudible stuff though. [b]I think![/b] [/quote] We need equations, diagrams and a full PowerPoint presentation! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 I think I need to run my rig through a spectrum analyser to see what it's doing, and if I can interpret what it says Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simwells Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 It will work with 4 strings it's just that the cutoff is just bellow that of a usual ERB, you could tune one that would cut off just below any frequencies you chose so as to remove anything below the fundamentals of whatever instrument. I wouldn't expect the benefits to be as great though as the excursion of speakers shows itself most obviously with the subsonic frequencies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 [quote name='simwells' timestamp='1328557508' post='1529116'] It will work with 4 strings it's just that the cutoff is just bellow that of a usual ERB, you could tune one that would cut off just below any frequencies you chose so as to remove anything below the fundamentals of whatever instrument. I wouldn't expect the benefits to be as great though as the excursion of speakers shows itself most obviously with the subsonic frequencies. [/quote] Thanks for this... Where's Max? We need a Thumpinator with a variable 4-5-6 string switch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AttitudeCastle Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Hey Silent Fly, Pardon my ignorance, (read through all of this but i'm a little confused and have a few questions) I understand the Low frequency roll off and it's purpose and effect, but how would it work with ERBs which go lower than the B string? (As i said, not too clued up on all this, but i understand you don't have the time to write a full explaination but a simple (like my knowledge here!) answer would be wonderful!) Also, could you bullet point the differences between the Thumpinator, and the Micro-thumpinator? [Keen to get one you see haha!] Sorry again (and sorry for de-railing the thread a little, but i judged the first question as relevent) Thanks in advance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 (edited) [quote name='AttitudeCastle' timestamp='1328558060' post='1529127'] ...could you bullet point the differences between the Thumpinator, and the Micro-thumpinator? [/quote] [quote name='Silent Fly' timestamp='1328552970' post='1529003']The only difference are the in/out. Balanced vs unbalanced. [/quote] Edited February 6, 2012 by discreet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmmettC Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 [quote name='AttitudeCastle' timestamp='1328558060' post='1529127'] Also, could you bullet point the differences between the Thumpinator, and the Micro-thumpinator? [Keen to get one you see haha!] [/quote] The Thumpinator has a balanced input and output, the Micro thumpinator does not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simwells Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 [quote name='AttitudeCastle' timestamp='1328558060' post='1529127']I understand the Low frequency roll off and it's purpose and effect, but how would it work with ERBs which go lower than the B string? (As i said, not too clued up on all this, but i understand you don't have the time to write a full explaination but a simple (like my knowledge here!) answer would be wonderful!) Also, could you bullet point the differences between the Thumpinator, and the Micro-thumpinator? [Keen to get one you see haha!] [/quote] As Max is a busy man I'll explain what I can for you. ERBs that go lower than a low B won't actually be producing the fundamental of those notes so you won't be able to tell the difference by those frequencies being removed. On the second bit Max explained it better than I will on the previous page. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AttitudeCastle Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1328558193' post='1529133'] [/quote] D'oh! Need new glasses I do! Thanks everyone! Sorry! [quote name='EmmettC' timestamp='1328558221' post='1529134'] The Thumpinator has a balanced input and output, the Micro thumpinator does not. [/quote] Thanks Man! [quote name='simwells' timestamp='1328558559' post='1529146'] As Max is a busy man I'll explain what I can for you. ERBs that go lower than a low B won't actually be producing the fundamental of those notes so you won't be able to tell the difference by those frequencies being removed. On the second bit Max explained it better than I will on the previous page. [/quote] Pardon my understanding, but i though with ERBs the note IS producded, it's just the fundamental isn't Reproduced by speakers, as they don't go that low, plus what makes the sound we hear comes from Pshyco-acoustics? (I believe there was a Thread about this on here, which is all i really know haha) Upon reflection, if that were true, then it would be exactly the same function and effect as with 5/6strings with the Low B? Kind of thinking out loud (as it were) trying to understand it better! Thank you all for the replies! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simwells Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 [quote name='AttitudeCastle' timestamp='1328559098' post='1529159']Pardon my understanding, but i though with ERBs the note IS producded, it's just the fundamental isn't Reproduced by speakers, as they don't go that low, plus what makes the sound we hear comes from Pshyco-acoustics? (I believe there was a Thread about this on here, which is all i really know haha) Upon reflection, if that were true, then it would be exactly the same function and effect as with 5/6strings with the Low B? Kind of thinking out loud (as it were) trying to understand it better![/quote] The note is produced as such but not with the fundamental, everything I've read gives the impression that a lot of basses won't even reproduce the fundamental of a low B (and would need to be a through neck for that anyway). The speakers generally wouldn't produce frequencies lower than that anyway and yes psycho acoustics make it sound as if we are hearing them whether it is lacking because of the speakers or the bass itself. Not entirely sure what you're saying would be the same with the low B, some speakers will handle the fundamental of that frequency. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AttitudeCastle Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 (edited) [quote name='simwells' timestamp='1328559364' post='1529163'] The note is produced as such but not with the fundamental, everything I've read gives the impression that a lot of basses won't even reproduce the fundamental of a low B (and would need to be a through neck for that anyway). The speakers generally wouldn't produce frequencies lower than that anyway and yes psycho acoustics make it sound as if we are hearing them whether it is lacking because of the speakers or the bass itself. Not entirely sure what you're saying would be the same with the low B, some speakers will handle the fundamental of that frequency. [/quote] Could you link me to any of this stuff, or find anything similar online? I guess i truely am ignorant to the matter! As my understanding, coming from my understanding of physics, is that the pickups as simply a magnetic coil with an induced EMF and AC current forming the output. So the string will vibrate at that frequency (say for a low F# ~23Hz). So the string is vibrating at that frequency and the pickup (for lack of a better word, even though this might make it sound like something else) 'recognises' that, but the constraints lie with both Amplification and the fact humans can't hear that low. As as far as i know, apart from harmonics/subharmonics, the only way for A Low B for example, to be heard is for it the string to vibrate at that frequency and because of the nature of the way magnet and pickup technology is the note can't not(ie it is) be reproduced, though whether it's done so in a way we can hear it depends on many things. ^ Alot of that may seem like waffle, but it make sense in my head! And feel free to rip it to shreads if it's wrong as I'm hear to learn! Sorry if this is going too far from the thread topic! What i meant by the second part, was i'm assuming the Thumpinator design means it works with all basses (though it's tailored for use with a Low but i was wondering, as it removes/cuts below a certain frequency from the signal too the Amplifer/speakers how it would effect notes in below the cut off (ie if the cut off was 30Hz and you played an F# at 23Hz). Taking that into account and what i've re-read over this thread and what you've all kindly helped me understand is, that it would still do the same job, even if the notes were that low, and stop speakers over working and helping them to sound tighter/more focused as those really low notes are heard almost entirely due to pshyco acoustics Edited February 6, 2012 by AttitudeCastle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silent Fly Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1328556472' post='1529086'] Just to be quite clear, does that mean it can't be used with 4-string basses? Would a Custom Shop 4-string version be much more expensive? [/quote] It can be used on 4, 5 or 6 string bass. In other words on any “normal/standard” bass guitar. If someone uses a specific tuning (e.g. low-F# below the low- B) s/he may need a specially tuned version. On request as a Custom Shop project, I can build a version that is fine-tuned on 4 string bass. A 4 string version would cut everything below the low-E. [quote name='EmmettC' timestamp='1328557017' post='1529102'] I think it can be used with 4 strings, but the frequency cut off is low enough for lowB, so lower than a 4 string can go, but should still cut off lots of the sub-bass inaudible stuff though. (...)[/quote] 100% correct. [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1328557894' post='1529124'] Thanks for this... Where's Max? We need a Thumpinator with a variable 4-5-6 string switch! :lol: ;) [/quote] A 5-6 string switch wouldn’t be very helpful :) I thought about a version with a 4-5 string switch but the circuit is quite complex and I haven’t managed to find a way to switch all the parts that need to be changed. In practice, the only way to do it to have 2 Thumpinators tuned on 4 and 5 strings and a switch to select between them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 [quote name='Silent Fly' timestamp='1328561622' post='1529210'] It can be used on 4, 5 or 6 string bass. In other words on any “normal/standard” bass guitar. [/quote] Great, thanks for this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simwells Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 [quote name='AttitudeCastle' timestamp='1328561215' post='1529198'] Could you link me to any of this stuff, or find anything similar online? I guess i truely am ignorant to the matter! As my understanding, coming from my understanding of physics, is that the pickups as simply a magnetic coil with an induced EMF and AC current forming the output. So the string will vibrate at that frequency (say for a low F# ~23Hz). So the string is vibrating at that frequency and the pickup (for lack of a better word, even though this might make it sound like something else) 'recognises' that, but the constraints lie with both Amplification and the fact humans can't hear that low. As as far as i know, apart from harmonics/subharmonics, the only way for A Low B for example, to be heard is for it the string to vibrate at that frequency and because of the nature of the way magnet and pickup technology is the note can't not(ie it is) be reproduced, though whether it's done so in a way we can hear it depends on many things. ^ Alot of that may seem like waffle, but it make sense in my head! And feel free to rip it to shreads if it's wrong as I'm hear to learn! Sorry if this is going too far from the thread topic! [/quote] Won't rip it to shreds as it's not something I have a massive knowledge of it either! Struggling to find some of the better articles I've read but Mike Tobias mentions it though only briefly in this article when talking about the differences between neck through and bolt on. http://www.mtdbass.com/articles/quest_for_tone.pdf Also the wikipedia article on missing fundamentals talks about it a bit. Main point to note is this "A [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violin"]violin[/url]'s lowest [url="http://www.catgutacoustical.org/research/articles/modetune/modechrt.html"]air and body resonances[/url] generally fall between 250 Hz and 300 Hz. The fundamental frequency of the open [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_pitch_notation"]G3[/url] string is below 200 Hz in modern tunings as well as [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concert_pitch#Pitch_inflation"]most historical tunings[/url], so the lowest notes of a violin have an attenuated fundamental, although listeners seldom notice this." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_fundamental Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AttitudeCastle Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 [quote name='simwells' timestamp='1328561960' post='1529225'] Won't rip it to shreds as it's not something I have a massive knowledge of it either! Struggling to find some of the better articles I've read but Mike Tobias mentions it though only briefly in this article when talking about the differences between neck through and bolt on. [url="http://www.mtdbass.com/articles/quest_for_tone.pdf"]http://www.mtdbass.c...st_for_tone.pdf[/url] Also the wikipedia article on missing fundamentals talks about it a bit. Main point to note is this "A [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violin"]violin[/url]'s lowest [url="http://www.catgutacoustical.org/research/articles/modetune/modechrt.html"]air and body resonances[/url] generally fall between 250 Hz and 300 Hz. The fundamental frequency of the open [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_pitch_notation"]G3[/url] string is below 200 Hz in modern tunings as well as [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concert_pitch#Pitch_inflation"]most historical tunings[/url], so the lowest notes of a violin have an attenuated fundamental, although listeners seldom notice this." [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missing_fundamental"]http://en.wikipedia....ing_fundamental[/url] [/quote] Thanks friend! Will trawl through everything in great detail before flaring questions left right and centre anymore! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ead Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Do we know what bass was being used in the video clip as that might resolve some of the questions about the effect on a 4-string bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 On a 4 String, would it be a 100 quid's worth of 'works' though? Should I just buy a shelf? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 [quote name='Johnston' timestamp='1328573866' post='1529535'] Mrs complaining about tripping over the POD ?? [/quote] I really should have a word with myself about being too subtle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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