4 Strings Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 [quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1327532122' post='1513128'] Yes, effortlessness is almost always the result of a great deal of earlier effort. [/quote] Amen. I play in a gospel band, three very talented singers but its hard work getting them off the natural harmonies (with which they sound fine) into actual worked out parts (with which they will sound fabulous). Getting them to believe anybody does that is not being easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thumperbob 2002 Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 I am in a 7 piece soul band- doing all the standards etc- currently working on breaking down the walls of heartbreak- the bandwagon version. Brilliant song with a fantastic feel- the bass is quite busy- with some chromatic runs and the timing of the bass lines is a little odd. To get the real feel of the song I think that working out and playing the exact bass line is the way to go. With something like this song where the bass is not that clear this can be challenging so obviously will take some time. I think the audience, whilst they wont really understand if the bass in correct or not, will get the feel of the song by staying to the original as much as poss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louisthebass Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 (edited) If you can hear the bass part on the track & learn the vast majority of it then you're 3/4 of the way there. Where the other 1/4 is concerned, just put your own interpretation in to cover the bits you can't hear or master. I do this, and nobody's ever come up to me after a gig & said "you played that bass part wrong". I think where the vast majority of punters are concerned (99.9%) they're either too bladdered, or having too much of a good time to care if the bass part is 100% correct (unless you're playing solely to musicians all the time). Edited January 26, 2012 by louisthebass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monckyman Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 Horses for courses. I like nailing the line as it was originally played. Whether I actually play that is down to the drummer, whether we can cover all the parts in the original arrangement etc. I have a lot of respect for original arrangements and production, so to mess with that casually is in my opinion throwing away a lot of what made the song work in the first place. Worse if it`s because of laziness or inability. Some bands are very good at alternative arrangements, some are not. Which one are you? You decide! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 [quote name='louisthebass' timestamp='1327569953' post='1513379'] I think where the vast majority of punters are concerned (99.9%) they're either too bladdered, or having too much of a good time to care if the bass part is 100% correct (unless you're playing solely to musicians all the time). [/quote] Fair enough, but regardless of how many punters are pissed or are musicians, or possibly both, [i]I[/i] know whether the bass part is correct or not. Working on the assumption that the audience will be off their heads or otherwise uncritical is the laziest possible excuse for not putting the work in! As to them having a good time... I can deal with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibody Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 However baslines can sometimes vary/evolve. I have seen bands live where the bassline live (and indeed guitar parts and solo's) is different in parts to the "Studio" version. Led Zeppelin are a good example of this. I wouldn,t consider it lazy as per say. Some parts of a line can be Iconic, and need to be left in but there are occasions where my ears fail me. If everyone was forced in a dictatorial manner to reproduce note for note "from the original score" basslines or face the sneers of more superior musicians, then those of us who cant sight read may as well pack up now. Then again using that argument, a computer can produce a totaly accurate and convincing range of note perfect instrumentation so we may as well all go home. If it stays within the boundries/rhythm/key of a song and it sounds good then the odd bit of "Well, I play that part this way" is ok, unless it is a defining part of the song - the verse bassline of "Tears of a Clown", "Down the Tube Station at Midnight", or any song with an "Iconic" bassline. Sorry I'm having a pretty godawful day so I'm a bit grumpy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leftyhook Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 (edited) [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1327576897' post='1513526'] Fair enough, but regardless of how many punters are pissed or are musicians, or possibly both, [i]I[/i] know whether the bass part is correct or not. Working on the assumption that the audience will be off their heads or otherwise uncritical is the laziest possible excuse for not putting the work in! As to them having a good time... I can deal with that. [/quote] Yep. Consistency. Whether there are 3 people, or 3,000 people. Drunk or sober, muso's or not.Awful acoustics or beautiful. Play your game to the height of your standards at all times and you will never be caught being anything less than your best. If that isn't good enough for them, then it is for you. Amen. Edited January 26, 2012 by leftyhook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 The only person who has told me that the bass line I was playing was wrong was another bass player. It's up to the person playing the line whether they play the original line. The o my part of a song ghat can be copyrighted is the melody and lyrics. Some songs the drums and bass can be so key that they're considered to be playing the melody. Take a band like BookerT and the MGs. They jammed all their music then when they hit on a riff or motif they liked they stripped the jam right back down. Other musicians work the other way - melody on a piano and lyrics then hire a bass player to play along. Read a few interviews and talk to a few session bass players and you soon come to the conclusion that many of them turn up, play a line and take the money. Sometimes they're happy with the outcome sometimes they wish they'd played it differently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 [quote name='Nibody' timestamp='1327578096' post='1513539'] I have seen bands live where the bassline live (and indeed guitar parts and solo's) is different in parts to the "Studio" version. Led Zeppelin are a good example of this. I wouldn,t consider it lazy as per say. [/quote] Good point, but Led Zep aren't doing a cover of their own track, are they? However they play it live, it's still Led Zep, and they're still going to be brilliant no matter what... they're an originals band playing their own material, they do it how they see fit! [quote name='Nibody' timestamp='1327578096' post='1513539'] Sorry I'm having a pretty godawful day so I'm a bit grumpy. [/quote] Don't sweat it, I'm grumpy every day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 (edited) [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1327579198' post='1513567'] It's up to the person playing the line whether they play the original line. [/quote] I'm not arguing with that. What do you think I am, a fascist? [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1327579198' post='1513567'] Take a band like BookerT and the MGs. They jammed all their music then when they hit on a riff or motif they liked they stripped the jam right back down. Other musicians work the other way - melody on a piano and lyrics then hire a bass player to play along. [/quote] Sure, but when the tracks have gelled, Duck plays the basslines pretty much the same every time. Look at the footage of BookerT on tour and tell me they're not well rehearsed! Edited January 26, 2012 by discreet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 (edited) I played in a big band on Blue Peter a few years ago. it was very well rehearsed even the questions they asked had rehearsed answers. The band leader wanted to make a political point about youth band funding from the government and after the rehearsal told one of the kids to change his answer. They must have the green room bugged because within 5 mins the floor manager was on the pair of them telling them that they mustn't deviate. My brother did change his line to a slightly more riske adult type answer and John Leslie did well not to corpse. If you watch live TV carefully you'll see a lot must be scripted and rehearsed and you get to tell when someone says something they wern't supposed to. Jonathon Ross is the best to watch for this. Don't believe anything you see on TV. Edited January 26, 2012 by TimR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1327579585' post='1513574'] Sure, but when the tracks have gelled, Duck plays the basslines pretty much the same every time. Look at the footage of BookerT on tour and tell me they're not well rehearsed! [/quote] That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying some bands do and some don't. Singer/songwriters with hired bass players will do it differently to established bands. But rehearsal is key. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1327579604' post='1513575'] If you watch live TV carefully you'll see a lot must be scripted and rehearsed and you get to tell when someone says something they wern't supposed to. Don't believe anything you see on TV. [/quote] Absolutely. Look at so-called 'reality' TV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 There's a reason they call it reality and not documentary. But then even David Attenbourough fakes it sometimes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomE Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 I want to understand the original line and get beneath it. Only then can i have the freedom to embellish it. I have worked with many musos who are too lazy to learn the original line and use the "do my own take" to disguise their lack of ability/integrity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norris Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 I learn the original bass line, especially any signature licks. But then being in a covers trio we have to fill in for the 20 missing guitar overdubs, lack of brass section, etc. You can't always play it as original. There again, once you've gigged a song a few times you'll realise it's become faster and twice as heavy as the original was Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 [quote name='BottomE' timestamp='1327580467' post='1513602'] I want to understand the original line and get beneath it. [/quote] As I think has been said, it's also a good way to understand the player. Some people will change original lines because the lines fall outside their comfort zone or their muscle memory. Nailing a line perfectly can mean learning phrases that may seem strange or impossible at first... paradoxically this helps when you come to play original material. Pushing the boundaries of your own playing to recreate a killer line can only be positive, imho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliffyspliff Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 I think if you play the bass line as near as you can to the original recording nobody can ever really have any issues with that. In fact I think if the band is learning new songs it makes learning them a lot easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JellyKnees Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 [quote name='chaypup' timestamp='1327510203' post='1512617'] Even the between song banter is the same each night and is scripted and rehearsed. Ad-libbing simply leaves too much room for things to go wrong. [/quote] God that's depressing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spinynorman Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 [quote name='JellyKnees' timestamp='1327582750' post='1513673'] God that's depressing. [/quote] And how. I stopped going to see The Hamsters - great band that they are - because it's like watching a video with the tracks edited into a different order, and I got sick of hearing the same between-song stories over and over again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 That's one reason not to do banter between tracks, or at least add new banter every few gigs. I've seen bands where even the players have given up pretending to laugh at the singers 4 jokes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 I don't like banter between tracks anyway. I prefer bands that cut the bloody crap and get on with it. If I want to see stand-up I'll go to a comedy club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norvegicusbass Posted January 26, 2012 Author Share Posted January 26, 2012 I think though that when an established well known band plays a cover version of another bands song they often embellish basslines and stuff. I personally would hate to go see any band and have them play the song exactly like the record even if it was well within their capability to do so. I tend to favour live versions of songs anyway and I disagree with an earlier post that suggests there isn't much variety between performances a quick look on Youtube will show you many groups perform songs differently. I am still hoping a live version of REM's Country Feedback that was once on Youtube gets re posted as all the other ones I have seen weren't as good and were very different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted January 26, 2012 Share Posted January 26, 2012 (edited) Established well-known bands can do what they like - they have an audience and a fan base, and would not be expected to cover another established well-known band's songs as per the original recordings. Their fans go to see them because of who they are. But if you're Terry Peas from Croydon playing bass in 'Hot Buttered Kebab' (a weekend function band) whose members are all in IT during the week, then your audience are going to be slightly more indifferent to say the least. They haven't come to see you - they're expecting to hear their favourite songs, so you had better come up with the goods! Edited January 26, 2012 by discreet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
norvegicusbass Posted January 26, 2012 Author Share Posted January 26, 2012 (edited) [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1327601111' post='1514094'] Established well-known bands can do what they like - they have an audience and a fan base, and would not be expected to cover another established well-known band's songs as per the original recordings. Their fans go to see them because of who they are. But if you're Terry Peas from Croydon playing bass in 'Hot Buttered Kebab' (a weekend function band) whose members are all in IT during the week, then your audience are going to be slightly more indifferent to say the least. They haven't come to see you - they're expecting to hear their favourite songs, so you had better come up with the goods! [/quote] Is there a Terry Peas btw? Is it you? Edited January 26, 2012 by norvegicusbass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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