thebrig Posted January 25, 2012 Posted January 25, 2012 I have finally persuaded my band to do Nice 'n' Sleazy, I know how to play it, but I am struggling to get JJ's tone right. Normally, I'm not too worried about perfecting tones when doing covers, but for this one, I feel I need to get as close to it as possible, to do it justice. I have a [b]Darkehorse precision[/b] with a [b]maple board[/b] and[b] Thumper [/b]pup, a [b]Warwick Corvette[/b] and a Ibanez [b]SR1200[/b] to choose from in the way of basses. For the amp, I have a [b]Genz Benz Shuttle 6.0[/b] going through [b]Genz Benz 1x12 & 2x10 cabs[/b]. As far as effects go, I have the following: [b]Line6 Pod X3 Live[/b] [b]Ashdown Lomenzo Bass Hyper-Drive[/b] [b]Dodd Stereo Flanger[/b] [b]Digitech Bass Multi Voice Chorus[/b] [b]Boss Super Octave OC-3[/b] [b]Boss Compression/Sustainer CS-3[/b] [b]Marshall Guv'nor GV-2[/b] [b]Zoom B2 Multi-Effects[/b] All tips and advice would be very welcome! Cheers in advance. Quote
Muzz Posted January 25, 2012 Posted January 25, 2012 The Precision (with some bright rounds), have a play with the tube amp sounds from the Pod/Zoom (and the Genz) - I'd start with an SVT kinda thing and push the mids, add a good amount of drive and compress the cack out of it. Oh, and use a nice thick pick with some violence... Quote
discreet Posted January 25, 2012 Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) I had a 76P which nailed the sound completely. In fact I had trouble making it sound like anything else! It's quite a scooped sound, but with boosted high mids and a fair bit of top, on the very verge of distortion - and played with a pick. Edit: As Muzz says, it's gotta be rounds, obviously. Edited January 25, 2012 by discreet Quote
Lozz196 Posted January 25, 2012 Posted January 25, 2012 From what I`ve read, JJ used to put bass and treble on full on his amp - I don`t think it had middle. Not too much gain, you want to get that by hitting the strings hard, near the bridge, to get the "feel" as well as the sound, and too much gain will just make it fuzzy. Oh, and get a pitchfork through one of your speaker cones, apparently a blown speaker was an intrinsic part of his sound. Quote
spongebob Posted January 25, 2012 Posted January 25, 2012 Don't forget the Karate chops - intrinsic to the overall tone. Quote
discreet Posted January 25, 2012 Posted January 25, 2012 [quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1327512925' post='1512695'] Oh, and get a pitchfork through one of your speaker cones, apparently a blown speaker was an intrinsic part of his sound. [/quote] You're going to have to be pretty dedicated to go this far. Quote
deepbass5 Posted January 25, 2012 Posted January 25, 2012 You need a 4 x 10 and kick one of the cones in, should sound just like him. Well thats what the man said. Quote
thebrig Posted January 25, 2012 Author Posted January 25, 2012 Thanks for all the tips so far, not sure about the pitchfork and kicking in the cones on my lovely Genz Benz though! Quote
bartelby Posted January 25, 2012 Posted January 25, 2012 A while back, after many months of arseing around with newer posher gear, I discovered my old rig, a Peavey MkIII Standard and old Laney 4x10, can get pretty close to JJ's sound when I use my Fender P, It can't do much else mind. I was about to get rid of them too... Quote
simon1964 Posted January 25, 2012 Posted January 25, 2012 (edited) Yep - apparently the ripped cones helped! Assuming you're not up for that, a Precision, played with a pick near the bridge, ought to get you close, especially with some tweaking of your Ashdown Lomenzo to give some crunchiness short of fuzz. Cracking song by the way! Edited January 25, 2012 by simon1964 Quote
discreet Posted January 25, 2012 Posted January 25, 2012 [quote name='simon1964' timestamp='1327517247' post='1512803'] Cracking song by the way! [/quote] Yeah... shall we have a listen? [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYqllpnyWrY"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OYqllpnyWrY[/url] Quote
4000 Posted January 25, 2012 Posted January 25, 2012 Rotos should help.... FWIW without outboard help I've always struggled to get those sort of tones with "newer posher gear" too. Which is why a lot of "newer posher gear" doesn't work for a fair chunk of what I've done historically. Quote
Spike Vincent Posted January 25, 2012 Posted January 25, 2012 1950'S Fender P,Rotosounds,HiWatt 50 watt GUITAR head,knackered Marshall 4 x 12,knackered Marshall 2 x 15,and a shedload of compression.Oh,and play like JJ Burnell... Quote
mentalextra Posted January 26, 2012 Posted January 26, 2012 (edited) [quote name='thebrig' timestamp='1327511738' post='1512644'] I have finally persuaded my band to do Nice 'n' Sleazy, I know how to play it, but I am struggling to get JJ's tone right. Normally, I'm not too worried about perfecting tones when doing covers, but for this one, I feel I need to get as close to it as possible, to do it justice. I have a [b]Darkehorse precision[/b] with a [b]maple board[/b] and[b] Thumper [/b]pup, a [b]Warwick Corvette[/b] and a Ibanez [b]SR1200[/b] to choose from in the way of basses. For the amp, I have a [b]Genz Benz Shuttle 6.0[/b] going through [b]Genz Benz 1x12 & 2x10 cabs[/b]. As far as effects go, I have the following: [b]Line6 Pod X3 Live[/b] [b]Ashdown Lomenzo Bass Hyper-Drive[/b] [b]Dodd Stereo Flanger[/b] [b]Digitech Bass Multi Voice Chorus[/b] [b]Boss Super Octave OC-3[/b] [b]Boss Compression/Sustainer CS-3[/b] [b]Marshall Guv'nor GV-2[/b] [b]Zoom B2 Multi-Effects[/b] All tips and advice would be very welcome! Cheers in advance. [/quote] You will go mad trying to get the studio sound, in the early days he had the amps loud when recording. Even JJ never [i]quite[/i] got that original sound again. Listen to a few live recordings too but dont underestimate the wonderful 'dirty' sound of his bass. Even though he digs in the playing is always fast and very clean. Edited January 26, 2012 by mentalextra Quote
Beer of the Bass Posted January 26, 2012 Posted January 26, 2012 I think the knackered guitar cabs make a big difference! I played a gig last year where the house "bass" rig was a horrible Carlsbro Stingray through a tired old Park 4x12", and I was struck by how Stranglers-y it sounded when I used a pick. The speaker breakup sounds a bit different to amp distortion. I can't imagine wanting to nail that sound all the time though, unless it really suited your band. Quote
charic Posted January 26, 2012 Posted January 26, 2012 The lomenzo should help a little bit too. Just on lightly mind Quote
thebrig Posted January 26, 2012 Author Posted January 26, 2012 (edited) [quote name='mentalextra' timestamp='1327566749' post='1513315'] You will go mad trying to get the studio sound, in the early days he had the amps loud when recording. Even JJ never [i]quite[/i] got that original sound again. Listen to a few live recordings too but dont underestimate the wonderful 'dirty' sound of his bass. Even though he digs in the playing is always fast and very clean. [/quote] That's a great suggestion! So I searched for a live version and started listening intently, but after a couple minutes I couldn't concentrate properly, any ideas why this happened? Here's the video I watched: Edit: I've now listened to lot's of 'live' versions, and I think that I am probably closer the the 'studio' sound, than what JJ gets when he is playing live. All I need to do now, is to do that great 'riff' justice!!! Anyone know where I can hire those dancers for when we do eventually play it live? Edited January 26, 2012 by Johngh Inappropriate vid ( Soz Guys ) Quote
analog kid Posted January 26, 2012 Posted January 26, 2012 Ha! the infamous Battersea Park gig. I saw The Stranglers a few days earlier at Stafford Bingley Hall,we got just one solitary stripper for Nice n Sleazy. I have never seen such a hail of beer,gob and spit that was aimed in her direction,there were greenies hanging off her everywhere,but she still carried on regardless. Probably one of the most disgusting things i have ever seen. Brilliant show though JJ was on fire....not literally! Quote
KevB Posted January 26, 2012 Posted January 26, 2012 [quote name='thebrig' timestamp='1327567617' post='1513332'] Anyone know where I can hire those dancers for when we do eventually play it live? [/quote] I think they'll be getting a bit past it by now... Quote
thebrig Posted January 26, 2012 Author Posted January 26, 2012 [quote name='KevB' timestamp='1327582307' post='1513656'] I think they'll be getting a bit past it by now... [/quote] So are most of the punters we play to, so I'm sure they wont mind!............ Quote
The Dark Lord Posted January 26, 2012 Posted January 26, 2012 (edited) The Power Pop bass preset on you Line 6 Pod X3 Live device is a good starting point. We do 'No More Heroes' and I use that preset, with a touch of gain and a US Standard Precision on full bore. Close enough for me. It should be worth noting that JJ's sound on Black and White represented a fundamental change as, please someone correct me if I have this wrong, he had stopped using his famous green Precision bass with rosewood neck (where the trademark JJ sound came from) and had started using a black Precision with maple. So, in a way, even HE was copying the JJ sound by that time. I think the best representation of the original JJ sound is to be heard (although not very high in the mix) on the album version of 'Grip'. To me, the JJ sound that most Stranglers fans actually prefer is on Black and White - especially the changeover from 'Do Ya Wanna' to 'Death and Night and Blood'. Edited January 26, 2012 by mercuryl Quote
PaulWarning Posted January 26, 2012 Posted January 26, 2012 (edited) there's been loads of threads on this subject, here's 2 [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/149609-jean-jacques-burnel-bass/page__p__1337619__fromsearch__1#entry1337619"]http://basschat.co.u..._1#entry1337619[/url] [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/123050-early-stranglersjj-burnel-bass-sound-on-an-ampeg/"]http://basschat.co.u...nd-on-an-ampeg/[/url] once JJ had broken his green P in half even he couldn't quiet get that sound again, it really is unique Edited January 26, 2012 by PaulWarning Quote
bassmachine2112 Posted January 26, 2012 Posted January 26, 2012 Your almost there-p-bass,thumper now all you need is gain loads of it and presence which the thumper has plenty of..When you boost the bass and treble the middle gets scooped-bingo job done. I can get with my musicman as well but plenty of gain. Quote
mentalextra Posted January 27, 2012 Posted January 27, 2012 [quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1327587015' post='1513796'] there's been loads of threads on this subject, here's 2 [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/149609-jean-jacques-burnel-bass/page__p__1337619__fromsearch__1#entry1337619"]http://basschat.co.u..._1#entry1337619[/url] [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/123050-early-stranglersjj-burnel-bass-sound-on-an-ampeg/"]http://basschat.co.u...nd-on-an-ampeg/[/url] once JJ had broken his green P in half even he couldn't quiet get that sound again, it really is unique [/quote] Spot on! Yes, even JJ could not get that tone back again. It was the right guitar, amp, studio combination that gave their first album that unique bass sound. Stop worrying about trying to get that exact tone, it doesnt stop JJ playing now! Quote
spongebob Posted January 27, 2012 Posted January 27, 2012 When I saw him last year, his Shuker (+ whatever amps) sounded very like the 'Black And White' tone to me. I've never heard sound an insane live bass sound - it was awesome! Quote
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