funkyspuke Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 good morning fellow BC's, I wanted to share with you some of my recent frustrations with rehearsal studios within the West Yorkshire area (no names will be mentioned). It might help me understand if this is limited to just a small handful of studios around here .. or, if this is a more widespread problem. My main frustration is around the quality of bass amps / cabs provided and being someone that doesn't drive, I am at the mercy of the studio and the equipment they provide as part of their rehearsal service (I refuse to leave my amp & cab at any studio as many are not insured). A large majority of the bass amps provided are 'combi' amps, 1x15 with the handling power of a robin reliant and they have no chance against a drums and guitars. I'm constantly drowned out and turning up only serves to push the amp beyond it's capacity, resulting in overload, distortion and potentially damaged amps. There are occasions (more often than not now) where our guitarist suffers similar frustrations! I want to gather peoples thoughts and opinions on this! The large majority of studios are charging premium rates (well, what I would consider premium for West Yorkshire ) and I would expect to have good / decent equipment on offer, or at least a choice? Do other people share these frustrations? Have you got any examples of circumstances similar to these? What would the 'ideal' solution be? Thanks for your thoughts guys .. your opinions mean a lot and it's going to help me in my ultimate goal & quest (yet to be revealed). Luke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodyratm Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Up here studios are kinda like that. But just remember (imo), if they had top range equipment - you'd probs be charged more for that and the upkeep. As a side note - how much is it down there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkyspuke Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 the studio I use at the moment charges approx £9 per hour, but then I've used one or two that are between £12 - £14 an hour and the equipment is still pretty poor! If a studio made it clear from the outset that high end equipment could be offered, even at a cost, would you not be tempted to pay that little bit more? I would expect for £14 an hour to be using pretty awesome equipment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louisthebass Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Hi Luke, I've been in shedloads of rehearsal studios over the years & have rarely found any decent bass rigs. 99% of the time, the ones that are available have been completely s****ed by some idiot who's turned everything up to 11 one too many times so it's not necessarily the studio's fault all the time. Rehearsal studios are run to very tight budgets so they're not going to invest in really good equipment unless something breaks (and guitar / bass / drum kit bits are probably well down the chain as PA is the main thing in these places. The only bit of advice I can give is that if you're getting lifts to rehearsal rooms would be to take your own gear (if there's room in the car). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 It`s not bad in the two places I use. One, Sanctuary in Watford, has some good amps - Peavey Valve amp with 410 TVX cab - and some fair amps - Marshall MB115 combos. These are included in the hourly rate - approx £11 an hour. The other, Farm Factory in Welwyn Garden City has some Ampeg Stacks. These are hired by the hour. No idea on the cost am afraid. For me, I think the ideal solution, especially in these days of lightweight amp heads, is studios provide 410s, and people then bring their own amp. If people have heavy amps, then hire out amp heads from the studio. You can get Peavey TVX 410s very reasonably priced, and they both sound good, and are virtually indestructable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkyspuke Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 [quote name='louisthebass' timestamp='1327999273' post='1519958'] Hi Luke, I've been in shedloads of rehearsal studios over the years & have rarely found any decent bass rigs. 99% of the time, the ones that are available have been completely s****ed by some idiot who's turned everything up to 11 one too many times so it's not necessarily the studio's fault all the time. Rehearsal studios are run to very tight budgets so they're not going to invest in really good equipment unless something breaks (and guitar / bass / drum kit bits are probably well down the chain as PA is the main thing in these places. The only bit of advice I can give is that if you're getting lifts to rehearsal rooms would be to take your own gear (if there's room in the car). [/quote] good point made ... there have been many occasions where I have found bass amps cranked up to full when I have started my rehearsal session. Yes, this is the fault of the musician using the amp .. but then the studio should also shoulder some blame for supplying bass amps that are just not up to it! I understand tight budgets .. however I don't understand spending as little money as possible on an amp that won't cut it, just to have to fork out on repairs or new amps after a few months when they have been overloaded. maybe a larger amount of investment initially and then 5 minutes tuition from the studio on how to use the amp effectively would save on money down the line. I don't get lifts to studios and the next problem I have is collecting it when I have a gig many a problem haha. A studio within a 5/10 minute walk of a train station would be magic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibody Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Had varied experiences. In the past I've used studios that had reasonable gear (Robannas in Brum being one, used to be able to get a nice Trace rig or HH though some of the stuff was a bit ropey). The one Im using at the moment is powered the other way - I have an Ashdown Evo II at my disposal, kicking out 350w wheras the house guitar amps are a trace Tramp and a small marshall combo (which means the two guitarists end up lugging their ENG and 5150 rigs up three flights of stairs!!) Got to look at it this way - not everyone is as experienced with equipment and it only takes a few "kiddy" bands turning everything up to 11 for gear to get wrecked, so its unlikely any rehersal studio will invest in real quality gear. I accept whatever is available rather than lugging my Ampeg out, though obviously the dream would be a lock-up wqhere we could leave all our own gear and use that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkyspuke Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 [quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1327999680' post='1519961'] For me, I think the ideal solution, especially in these days of lightweight amp heads, is studios provide 410s, and people then bring their own amp. If people have heavy amps, then hire out amp heads from the studio. You can get Peavey TVX 410s very reasonably priced, and they both sound good, and are virtually indestructable. [/quote] Exactballs Lightweight amps are the way forward ... I have a GenzBenz Shuttle 6! I use a Hartke 4 x 10 cab and it's more than powerful, clear and crisp enough for what I play ... and the most interesting fact is that you can pick these up from basschat for less than £100! Even the Hartke heads are a reasonable price and good quality! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stef030 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 whilst I understand the frustration, and as the op says,he would pay up to £14 ph if it had good gear, a half decent set up cost £6/7/800 to be thrashed within a inch of its life at any given time,times 2 or three or four rooms,how long would it take to recoup the cost before profit, and then replace, if prices were £20/£25 ph then ok,but at £9 ph hmmm, sorry just my take on it,not here to offend, chees stef Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkyspuke Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 [quote name='Nibody' timestamp='1328000025' post='1519968'] Got to look at it this way - not everyone is as experienced with equipment and it only takes a few "kiddy" bands turning everything up to 11 for gear to get wrecked, so its unlikely any rehersal studio will invest in real quality gear. I accept whatever is available rather than lugging my Ampeg out, though obviously the dream would be a lock-up wqhere we could leave all our own gear and use that. [/quote] should studios maybe not spend 5 mins doing an induction on all the equipment such as amps, cabs, PA etc? Maybe a choice of equipment could be offered at the booking stage? that way, those experienced enough will opt for the more advanced / expensive equipment and look after it .. the less experienced may opt for the combi amps, but they would still be of decent enough quality so that there was no need to crank up to 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkyspuke Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 [quote name='stef030' timestamp='1328000201' post='1519971'] whilst I understand the frustration, and as the op says,he would pay up to £14 ph if it had good gear, a half decent set up cost £6/7/800 to be thrashed within a inch of its life at any given time,times 2 or three or four rooms,how long would it take to recoup the cost before profit, and then replace, if prices were £20/£25 ph then ok,but at £9 ph hmmm, sorry just my take on it,not here to offend, chees stef [/quote] hey stef, no offence taken ... I'm here to gather everyone's opinion. my mates own their own studio in West Yorkshire and they said the same thing you did ... but laughed at me at the same time yes, the initial cost would be much more when going for a decent set up, but I feel that there are savings to be made when not having to replace cheap equipment only a few months down the line. and places like basschat and ebay (and it's a buyers market at the moment) offer many opportunities to purchase decent equipment and very reasonable prices. the Hartke 4x10 T cab as an example cost me less than £100. maybe there is some a middle ground between poor and top range equipment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_S Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I've been in some total dives in the name of rehearsal studios, one in particular was noteworthy for the smell of very strong ganja and the Peavey TKO combo which went up in smoke (literally, but I was told "that happens sometimes.. be alright in 5 mins")! Sadly it was in the days before camera phones, so I have no evidence of a Peavey in this state... The one we use now is pretty good for electrical safety, but it's still AVT150 2x12s for guitar and various old peavey / laney / trace offerings for bass. Fortunately they offer a lockup for bands with regular weekly slots, so I leave a cheap rig (HA5500 and ABM410t) down there and just turn up with a bass. We also keep a couple of 1936s and rack power amps there for the guitarists to just turn up with guitars and preamps. I'm sure we look like the most pretentious of t*ssers wheeling everything into the room and shoving their gear to the sides, but if we're paying for the time, we don't want it screwed up by bad gear. As for offering induction on how to use the gear in a rehearsal studio... never going to work. Kids rocking up to that sort of place will at best ignore the advice 'because they know better' and at worst do the exact opposite in defiance because 'nobody tells [them] what to do'! I dare say some of the 'young adults' wouldn't behave much better. So yeah, a place with a gear store and some lockable cases for a cheap but serviceable rig, that'd be my advice 'cos I know it works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodyratm Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Huh we get fleeced up here! £15 p/h for band 7.50 for solo. Thats for Trace heads, Hartke and Peavey. All Solid state. They do however have an ampeg 810 which i used to use with my valve heads. The other studio generally has old Peavey stuff, old ashdown etc. I need a new head and cab... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitz666 Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 [sub]I always see equipment lying about in practise rooms but have never used it, I prefere to play about with my own setup. [/sub] [sub]Difficult position having to reply on their equipment due to travel restrictions.[/sub] [sub]I know a lot of places allow you to store gear there securely, is this an option for you?[/sub] [sub]BTW, our practice room have and Ashdown 410 combo, and a Trace rig for hire, I think they charge an extra £10 on top of the cost of the practise (which is £10 per hour) [/sub] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepurpleblob Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I had a serious think about opening a rehearsal studio some years back and came to the conclusion that I had no idea how they make ends meet. Never mind make a profit. So perhaps it isn't surprising. In the Glasgow area there are one or two with good equipment but, of course, they are almost impossible to get booked into. The rest are somewhere between OK and very poor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louisthebass Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 [quote name='funkyspuke' timestamp='1327999733' post='1519963'] good point made ... there have been many occasions where I have found bass amps cranked up to full when I have started my rehearsal session. Yes, this is the fault of the musician using the amp .. but then the studio should also shoulder some blame for supplying bass amps that are just not up to it! I understand tight budgets .. however I don't understand spending as little money as possible on an amp that won't cut it, just to have to fork out on repairs or new amps after a few months when they have been overloaded. maybe a larger amount of investment initially and then 5 minutes tuition from the studio on how to use the amp effectively would save on money down the line. I don't get lifts to studios and the next problem I have is collecting it when I have a gig many a problem haha. A studio within a 5/10 minute walk of a train station would be magic [/quote] Hi Luke, Agree with your comments above - if a piece of kit doesn't work, then the studio should pull it out of use once it's been reported. In respect of people in the studio advising people on how to use the equipment in place, I've found that the studios usually have one person in place who has a basic idea of how the PA works & that's about the extent of their knowledge. In resepct of getting your gear to gigs.... Being a car owner & being able to drive is pretty much a necessity, although running a car is expensive enough as it is without taking lessons & the theory test. Makes me envious of Saxaphone players from time to time.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorick Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Down here, we're charged £10 an hour, and the worst I get is an Ashdown Mag300 on matching 8x10. Usually get an Eden WT800 ans 2 Eden 4x10's or an Ampeg 300 tranny head on an Ampeg 8x10... spoiled? Quite possibly, but I have been going there for 25 years!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle psychosis Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 [quote name='thepurpleblob' timestamp='1328002230' post='1520008'] I had a serious think about opening a rehearsal studio some years back and came to the conclusion that I had no idea how they make ends meet. Never mind make a profit. So perhaps it isn't surprising. In the Glasgow area there are one or two with good equipment but, of course, they are almost impossible to get booked into. The rest are somewhere between OK and very poor. [/quote] I've never had a problem getting into a decent room in Glasgow. My only issue is their insistance on 3 hr bookings. The practice rooms we use in Glasgow and Edinburgh are both decent for bass rigs- usually a trace 410 combo or a decent 810 and 300w head. Never had issues with power/volume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 One studio I used had a 4x10". Every week I reported a different blown cone in it. I've also seen mods done to volume controls on amps to stop them being driven to max. There is always the DI option if there is a decent PA. I suppose the answer is for the rehearsal studio to check before and after a band use the room that it's all working correctly, but I guess arguing over who pays for a bust amp when one of you is trying to run a budget studio and the other is a peniless musician who can just about scrape together the rehearsal fee plus a few tins of lager is a frustrating task. A few studios do have storage options. I'm fairly sure Farm Factory mentioned by Lozz do. They've been around for years and are well organised. You could even hire a basic PA for gigs from them. However, you never know when a studio is going to go bust and your gear gets held byh the recievers while you try to prove it's yours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkyspuke Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 (edited) WOW thanks for all the comments guys ... I'm sat at work trying my best to get some 'work' done and my phone's buzzing every minute with replies! In shall attempt to reply to all the comments above; Storage - I would say half of the studios I've been to have offered storage. A few don't and some have stopped offering it. The ones that stopped offering storage gave many reasons .. insurance premiums going up because of storing 3rd party equipment, bands not paying for storage (the mates I know said money for storage was the most difficult to get out of people), constant calls at all times of the day to get stuff out of storage etc. Equipment set up tuition / checking - if a studio sets aside a 15 minute slot to ensure that all equipment (after a band has finished) is in working order and then give the musicians a once over on how to use it ... I think that would be beneficial! I understand many musicians want to just 'rock up' and they think they know best, but it's your own studio and you should be firm and take pride in what you have created! [b]has anyone got any other frustrations or thoughts? is there anything that you would like your current studio to offer i.e. live recording whilst using a rehearsal room, chill out area that offers drinks / food? does your studio have a 'change over' period between bands i.e. 15 mins between each booking?[/b] thanks again people! Edited January 31, 2012 by funkyspuke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monckyman Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I used to run a rehearsal studio, as part of a recording studio,and there`s not a lot of money in it after electric, insurance,security,. business tax and gear maintenance. However, studios should supply decent kit if they are charging for it. I really think that nowadays, any band rehearsing at least once a week should seriously consider their own room in a mill space etc. Think about how the costs compare. Rehearsal room once a week =£30 on average,some with storage (extra) some without, ballache moving kit and amps etc,takes half your time up. So that`s £120 a month plus storage and/or transport. I`m currently paying £200 for a room, but have just found one for £150. Between 4 members that`s £40 per MONTH each member.=tenner a week.. For that you get exclusive use, you get to leave your kit, amps and P.A set up, and can store all your crap there too, which means mega brownie points at home. The moment you start to rehearse more than once a week, you`re saving loads. Some bands I know have managed to do a room share with another band they trust and that halves the cost. I know some bands aren`t in the position to make that financial committment, but for those that can, it`s a no brainer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkyspuke Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 [b]has anyone got any other frustrations or thoughts? is there anything that you would like your current studio to offer i.e. live recording whilst using a rehearsal room, chill out area that offers drinks / food? does your studio have a 'change over' period between bands i.e. 15 mins between each booking?[/b] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkyspuke Posted January 31, 2012 Author Share Posted January 31, 2012 [quote name='Monckyman' timestamp='1328006832' post='1520080'] I used to run a rehearsal studio, as part of a recording studio,and there`s not a lot of money in it after electric, insurance,security,. business tax and gear maintenance. However, studios should supply decent kit if they are charging for it. I really think that nowadays, any band rehearsing at least once a week should seriously consider their own room in a mill space etc. Think about how the costs compare. Rehearsal room once a week =£30 on average,some with storage (extra) some without, ballache moving kit and amps etc,takes half your time up. So that`s £120 a month plus storage and/or transport. I`m currently paying £200 for a room, but have just found one for £150. Between 4 members that`s £40 per MONTH each member.=tenner a week.. For that you get exclusive use, you get to leave your kit, amps and P.A set up, and can store all your crap there too, which means mega brownie points at home. The moment you start to rehearse more than once a week, you`re saving loads. Some bands I know have managed to do a room share with another band they trust and that halves the cost. I know some bands aren`t in the position to make that financial committment, but for those that can, it`s a no brainer. [/quote] we did share an industrial unit with a few other bands and it was about the price your stating .. it was awesome, all the best equipment, large open space and we could spend as much time as we wanted. but (for reasons I won't bore you all with) a couple of the bands f***** it up for the rest of us! if you've had some experience in running a studio, it would be great to get some of your thoughts, suggestions, pitfalls, frustrations from you if you have time at some point. might drop a PM with a few questions if that's cool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monckyman Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Please do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gwilym Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Not quite on topic, but one of my biggest disappointments of last year was seeing that Enterprise Studios (near Denmark St in London) did not get demolished to make way for the massive cross-rail project. Many buildings in the area were levelled, but they literally stopped 1 short. It's the worst place I've rehearsed in London, but because of its location still does well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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