Rehearsal Studio Frustrations

[funkyspuke]

[quote name='Gwilym' timestamp='1328008172' post='1520107']
Not quite on topic, but one of my biggest disappointments of last year was seeing that Enterprise Studios (near Denmark St in London) did not get demolished to make way for the massive cross-rail project. Many buildings in the area were levelled, but they literally stopped 1 short. It's the worst place I've rehearsed in London, but because of its location still does well.
[/quote]

what in particular about it's location, makes it do well?

[Gwilym]

[quote name='funkyspuke' timestamp='1328009516' post='1520153']
what in particular about it's location, makes it do well?
[/quote]

right in the middle of London. very convenient if you have band members coming from various parts of London, but still a horrible place.

[simwells]

Personally I have tried to avoid rehearsal spaces that are rented out for quite a while now, due to crap equipment (once went to one where every single drum skin had a hole in and the cymbals were all bent into horseshoes as well as there only being two plugs which meant we either got heat as it was the middle of winter or power for two amps!) overall cost and general hastle of booking times and transporting kit.

We now with another band pay £300 per month to rent a permanent space we can use whenever we want, was two practise rooms but sound leakage made using both at once impractical so one is now a storage/chill out room. Works out cheaper than going elsewhere as we generally do two practises a week too.

[CyberBass]

Being a studio owner I can see both sides of the story so to speak. I can understand your frustration regarding hiring equipment etc. I charge £5 to hire a guitar or bass amp per rehearsal. I could not afford to put high quality amps to hire as I find that not all musicians respect the equipment and in some cases almost abuse it, thankfully not too many and those that do get to learn by there ways, on average I get through numerous drum stands, drum seats etc due to over tightening, cross threading, general wear and tear. If you appreciate a rehearsal I charge £25 inc pa mics stands and drum kit, I run a financially tight ship, so virtually run at a loss from a rehearsal booking perspective.
There are numerous threads about kit sharing nightmares, it's exactly the same with amp hirage it's a gamble each time you hire them out.
Anyway, I hire out a trace Elliot 100 watt 15" combo it competes with most metal bands etc, and have never had any complaints that it's under powered. I know it's may be frustrating, but see it from the studios perspective as well.
On the other hand, the studio financially runs better generally daytimes and weekends as a recording studio. When I record, I am always happy lending bassists my rig to record at the studio without charge :-)

[Subbeh]

[quote name='Nibody' timestamp='1328000025' post='1519968'](Robannas in Brum being one, used to be able to get a nice Trace rig or HH though some of the stuff was a bit ropey).[/quote]

I think Robannas is the only rehearsal place I've used where we actuallly had a couple of rats make an appearance. Again with their gear it's pot luck but given what you hear coming through the walls
Im not surprised that they don't invest in high end gear, it wouldn't last five minutes.

[RockfordStone]

the studios i practice at started out with good gear, but over the years these have been mistreated by the people that have used them, as is the case with a lot of places i imagine.

whilst 99 percent of users will treat the gear with respect, there is always one twat who won't, and this is probably the reason why gear at practice rooms are either poor quality or broken.

ive always used my own gear, yes its an arse to carry about, but at least i know that it works and that no twat has broken it

[Subbeh]

[quote name='funkyspuke' timestamp='1328007023' post='1520083']
[b]has anyone got any other frustrations or thoughts? is there anything that you would like your current studio to offer i.e. live recording whilst using a rehearsal room, chill out area that offers drinks / food? does your studio have a 'change over' period between bands i.e. 15 mins between each booking?[/b]
[/quote]

The fifteen minute thing is a nice idea, suppose it would add up quickly and eat into profit but it's so bloody annoying when a band finish bang on the hour and want to spend ten to fifteen minutes of your time packing away.

[funkyspuke]

[quote name='CyberBass' timestamp='1328015630' post='1520274']
Being a studio owner I can see both sides of the story so to speak. I can understand your frustration regarding hiring equipment etc. I charge £5 to hire a guitar or bass amp per rehearsal. I could not afford to put high quality amps to hire as I find that not all musicians respect the equipment and in some cases almost abuse it, thankfully not too many and those that do get to learn by there ways, on average I get through numerous drum stands, drum seats etc due to over tightening, cross threading, general wear and tear. If you appreciate a rehearsal I charge £25 inc pa mics stands and drum kit, I run a financially tight ship, so virtually run at a loss from a rehearsal booking perspective.
There are numerous threads about kit sharing nightmares, it's exactly the same with amp hirage it's a gamble each time you hire them out.
Anyway, I hire out a trace Elliot 100 watt 15" combo it competes with most metal bands etc, and have never had any complaints that it's under powered. I know it's may be frustrating, but see it from the studios perspective as well.
On the other hand, the studio financially runs better generally daytimes and weekends as a recording studio. When I record, I am always happy lending bassists my rig to record at the studio without charge :-)
[/quote]

I'm keen to see it from 'both sides of the story' also ... it's interesting to hear peoples views and perception on rehearsal studios. it seems to me that there is a general level of acceptance, both on the part of the musicians and studio owners. If a rehearsal room charges reasonable to cheap prices, then I would expect the equipment to reflect this. However, it should also work the other way.

it's also interesting to hear that the rehearsal side runs at a loss. may I quiz you on this at a later stage via PM (I won't be intrusive haha, it would be good to understand what costs there are etc).

[quote name='RockfordStone' timestamp='1328016889' post='1520307']
the studios i practice at started out with good gear, but over the years these have been mistreated by the people that have used them, as is the case with a lot of places i imagine.

whilst 99 percent of users will treat the gear with respect, there is always one twat who won't, and this is probably the reason why gear at practice rooms are either poor quality or broken.

ive always used my own gear, yes its an arse to carry about, but at least i know that it works and that no twat has broken it
[/quote]

It's that 1% that you need to get through to ... be it with a small induction before hand? or even sit in a listen to them play a tune, engage with them and offer your services as an engineer. if you explain to them it's to protect your equipment, then I'm sure they will oblige.

[quote name='Subbeh' timestamp='1328016938' post='1520310']
The fifteen minute thing is a nice idea, suppose it would add up quickly and eat into profit but it's so bloody annoying when a band finish bang on the hour and want to spend ten to fifteen minutes of your time packing away.
[/quote]

there is a studio in London that I know of that has a gap between each session to check the room and then set it up based upon a bands specification. I have no idea if it eats into their profits, but it gives bands more time in the studio rather than waiting for others to leave.

[Lozz196]

[quote name='Subbeh' timestamp='1328016736' post='1520303']


I think Robannas is the only rehearsal place I've used where we actuallly had a couple of rats make an appearance. Again with their gear it's pot luck but given what you hear coming through the walls
Im not surprised that they don't invest in high end gear, it wouldn't last five minutes.
[/quote]

I sold them a Peavey 115 cab, and subsequently did a recording there. Good studio.

[Jacqueslemac]

Over here in the east there are a couple competing, so their rates are stuck around £25 for three hours. Kit provided includes PA, basic drum kit, bass amp and two guitar amps. Mind you, vacant slots are few and far between. Once you've got hold of a regular practice slot, you don't let go of it lightly!

The bass kit changes depending on what's been knackered and what's just come in. If it doesn't work when you get into the studio, they dig out another one straight away. It's mostly fairly budget combos, but it does the job (i.e. practicing arrangements, not recording).

Just recently I've hooked up with a drummer I used to play with. He has his own practice space we rent from him. It only costs us a bit less, but we can use his pro-level kit and PA and leave our own amps there if we like. He's flexible on hours and last-minute changes and is using our cash to upgrade the carpets etc in his studio.

And it's pretty safe with the all the guard dogs there!

[funkyspuke]

[quote name='Jacqueslemac' timestamp='1328019906' post='1520380']
Over here in the east there are a couple competing, so their rates are stuck around £25 for three hours. Kit provided includes PA, basic drum kit, bass amp and two guitar amps. Mind you, vacant slots are few and far between. Once you've got hold of a regular practice slot, you don't let go of it lightly!

The bass kit changes depending on what's been knackered and what's just come in. If it doesn't work when you get into the studio, they dig out another one straight away. It's mostly fairly budget combos, but it does the job (i.e. practicing arrangements, not recording).

Just recently I've hooked up with a drummer I used to play with. He has his own practice space we rent from him. It only costs us a bit less, but we can use his pro-level kit and PA and leave our own amps there if we like. He's flexible on hours and last-minute changes and is using our cash to upgrade the carpets etc in his studio.

And it's pretty safe with the all the guard dogs there!
[/quote]

did the other studio offer you a discounted rate if you block booked and did you pay this upfront (by direct debit for example)?

[Jacqueslemac]

I never asked. The booking was taken care of by the guitarist.

I would've been happy with that as long as we had some flexibility to cancel (holiday, illness etc), as with the usual arrangement, which is to block book, then confirm next week when paying for this week's session. I think they don't charge for cancellations so long as they have three days notice. There's always a waiting list for the slots, so I think they fill them easily.

When I was made redundant a few years ago I worked with the local Chamber of Commerce start-up people with a view to having my own rehearsal studio business, but one small-scale one started up close to my home while I was getting the business plan together and then one of the two big ones announced they would be moving to new premises (their old one was pretty down at heel). I chickened out, which was a shame, but probably the right thing to do. The smaller one went out of business after a few months.

Interestingly, the small one included a free service which was to record the middle hour and hand you a CD of the recording as you left. It was taken from a couple of microphones in each studio, up by the ceiling. The sound was unmixed, so very basic, but a handy reference. That sold it for me, but we were one of the few bands that used the studio (it was only three miles from Norwich city centre), so it gradually died.

[funkyspuke]

[quote name='Johnston' timestamp='1328020133' post='1520384']
One Question

If you owned a Rehearsal space and knew you were going to get some f*** wits who have no idea what they are at and just want to make noise and say to folk "I'm in a band" .

Guys that turn up with a bass they found in their mates garage held together with Duct tape and nails.

Guys that have no comprehension of EQ or when a speaker is saying I'm having enough wouldn't have a bean when the Amp is getting overloaded. No idea on how to treat a valve amp (I would include my self in that one) .

Thats before you get onto drummers who just bash away on the provided kit.

Would you go out and buy high end gear for these guys to use???


I'll go out on a limb here and if anyone has run a rehearsal place wants to correct me fair enough. But I would say the numpties who don't care about their own gear never mind someone elses out weighs the number of guys hiring out the place who treat everything with respect.
[/quote]


There are always idiots in all walks of life and business … I knew a mate who worked at a Go Karting arena and he had a party of chavs in that smashed his karts to bits! He didn’t know it was going to happen and it cost him a lot of money to repair them. But it was money he had saved aside / built up as cash flow. Now, if these chaps ever called to book again, the answer would be simple … F*** OFF!

the same would apply to a rehearsal studio.

The answer, in my mind, would be to offer a range of equipment that vary in quality. For the smaller rehearsal rooms, which are likely to be cheaper and therefore (and this is a pure assumption) likely to attract people less likely to care for equipment, you offer reasonable combi amps. But better quality equipment is on offer for those willing to use it .. therefore you would hope these people do care about the equipment.

I don’t believe that offering sub-standard equipment across the board is the answer.

[cheddatom]

I looked into doing this and the main prohibiting factor was I would have to be there to open up and lock up, so it was not worth the time. I suppose it's different when you live right by your studio?

[funkyspuke]

[quote name='Jacqueslemac' timestamp='1328020830' post='1520398']
I never asked. The booking was taken care of by the guitarist.

I would've been happy with that as long as we had some flexibility to cancel (holiday, illness etc), as with the usual arrangement, which is to block book, then confirm next week when paying for this week's session. I think they don't charge for cancellations so long as they have three days notice. There's always a waiting list for the slots, so I think they fill them easily.

When I was made redundant a few years ago I worked with the local Chamber of Commerce start-up people with a view to having my own rehearsal studio business, but one small-scale one started up close to my home while I was getting the business plan together and then one of the two big ones announced they would be moving to new premises (their old one was pretty down at heel). I chickened out, which was a shame, but probably the right thing to do. The smaller one went out of business after a few months.

Interestingly, the small one included a free service which was to record the middle hour and hand you a CD of the recording as you left. It was taken from a couple of microphones in each studio, up by the ceiling. The sound was unmixed, so very basic, but a handy reference. That sold it for me, but we were one of the few bands that used the studio (it was only three miles from Norwich city centre), so it gradually died.
[/quote]

very interesting .. the 'live recording' idea they had could easily be expanded upon ... offering it for free seems like a bizzare idea to me?

[bartelby]

One place I reheased at, in the late 80s, used to give you a battered Carlsbro combo for the first few weeks. If you proved you could be trusted you'd get access to better gear, ended up using a TE 4x10 combo.
At the end of the sessions one of their guys would come and help pack away so they could check what you had done (and to set up the room for the next users). They didn't do this in an overbearing manner,so it didn't really feel like you were being watch like a hawk.

[funkyspuke]

[quote name='Johnston' timestamp='1328021833' post='1520412']
I used to do weekend work at a place with a karting track (I did the car end of things)

The karts etc were deliberately picked because they would get wrecked. The cost of repairs and replacement clutches was all worked out before a Kart ever touched the yard. They get smashed it's part of the business. Same with the rally cars I worked on at the other side of the hedge. They could have went for full blown dogs balls cars, but no point they get broke, they need repaired cost efficient repairs and a good supply of parts was better than telling customers we have this that and the other and then waiting a week with a car out of action because they've ran out of half shafts and the supplier has to order more in.

Edit to add after a ewhile they even redesigned part of the Kart circuit to take out part that was heavy on clutches (Which was a shame it was my favorite bit)

A range of equipment depending on the band is going to quadruple start up costs. It's going to mean storing more gear in the studio more leg work moving it about AND of course little Johnny with his 3 strings and bridge held on a with a few nails all carried in a bin liner is going to give off because he gets a Peavey whilst Henry and his Dingwall gets the lovely Mark Bass locked away in another room.

Telling customers to f*** off, well I wonder how long it would stay open with that attitude
[/quote]

it wasn't meant literately haha ... but if a customer has no respect for a studios equipment or it's owner, then why should he be shown respect back? it's the kind of people you don't want. pubs kick out and bar people every single day, as these people upset other customers and give the place a bad reputation ... same principal applies with a studio I would assume, if someone is constantly breaking your equipment through lack of respect (rather than understanding) then they are told not to come back.

you have to spend money to make money .. I have always lived by that rule. A great investment initially leads to greater rewards later ... if managed properly.

[funkyspuke]

[quote name='bartelby' timestamp='1328022670' post='1520423']
One place I reheased at, in the late 80s, used to give you a battered Carlsbro combo for the first few weeks. If you proved you could be trusted you'd get access to better gear, ended up using a TE 4x10 combo.
At the end of the sessions one of their guys would come and help pack away so they could check what you had done (and to set up the room for the next users). They didn't do this in an overbearing manner,so it didn't really feel like you were being watch like a hawk.
[/quote]

makes perfect sense to me

[bartelby]

[quote name='funkyspuke' timestamp='1328022876' post='1520430']
makes perfect sense to me
[/quote]

Oh, if you did continually abuse the equipment you were banned.

[Machines]

[quote name='yorick' timestamp='1328002940' post='1520023']
Down here, we're charged £10 an hour, and the worst I get is an Ashdown Mag300 on matching 8x10. Usually get an Eden WT800 ans 2 Eden 4x10's or an Ampeg 300 tranny head on an Ampeg 8x10... spoiled? Quite possibly, but I have been going there for 25 years!!!
[/quote]

Yeah - Robannas is quite a good. I've used that Eden rig before and was very surprised to see it there ! Certainly a step above the usual Peavey TNT mudbox in other locales.

[funkyspuke]

[quote name='Johnston' timestamp='1328023944' post='1520450']
even being polite.

It doesn't take long for word to get around that you are turning down customers. Will you be anyones first call if they think you will say no?

If the customers you don't want and are going to turn away are the type that are going to be the high percentage of your predicted clientèle it's going to be a bit of a silly business model.

Like McDonalds refusing to serve Chavs.
[/quote]

I have no idea if the 'majority' of customers are going to be idiots that care not for other peoples equipment ... I also wouldn't build a business model around providing rehearsal rooms for kids with 3 strings and nailed on pieces of wood

the rehearsal studios that I have been to (and spoken to) have a large majority of customers who do care for and respect the equipment that they use. it's these people that spread a positive imagine for the studio ... yes, there will be a few people who spread a bad word or two ... but again, that's business and not a deterrent for me. in addition to this, if idiots are telling other idiots not to use a studio, then bonus

your last comment is along the lines of discrimination and would lead to refusing business to people that have never used your business / product before. if someone walked into your shop and stole £100's worth of your stock, you wouldn't allow them in again just through fear of being bad mouthed by a thief!

[Jacqueslemac]

Yes, in the larger studio I've used, the technician used to come in as we were packing up and helped coil the mic cables, re-arrange the stands etc so it was nice and tidy for the next band.

And just checked we'd not nicked or trashed anything.

[Ed_S]

I guess if you were setting up and wanting to really spend once and protect that investment, you'd stick power amps and any other 'set and forget' equipment for the guitars, bass and PA in a locked rack in the corner / in another room, all pre-set to a reasonable maximum volume, then run out to the speaker cabs in the room via wall boxes and have a patch bay and rack mixer for people to plug mics and preamps into. Couple of basic WYSIWYG rack preamps as the provided 'rigs', and maybe the option to hire more adventurous ones at a price. I haven't given this more than the last 10 mins in though, so I'm sure there are things you'd need to work out, but it's got to be harder to screw equipment up if you can't access most of it, and I reckon the pre/power idea would mean less stuff (and less expensive stuff) was out of action at any one time. Just a thought

[funkyspuke]

[quote name='Ed_S' timestamp='1328024881' post='1520471']
I guess if you were setting up and wanting to really spend once and protect that investment, you'd stick power amps and any other 'set and forget' equipment for the guitars, bass and PA in a locked rack in the corner / in another room, all pre-set to a reasonable maximum volume, then run out to the speaker cabs in the room via wall boxes and have a patch bay and rack mixer for people to plug mics and preamps into. Couple of basic WYSIWYG rack preamps as the provided 'rigs', and maybe the option to hire more adventurous ones at a price. I haven't given this more than the last 10 mins in though, so I'm sure there are things you'd need to work out, but it's got to be harder to screw equipment up if you can't access most of it, and I reckon the pre/power idea would mean less stuff (and less expensive stuff) was out of action at any one time. Just a thought
[/quote]

a very interesting idea indeed ... one that does need some thought

[bartelby]

[quote name='Jacqueslemac' timestamp='1328024874' post='1520470']
Yes, in the larger studio I've used, the technician used to come in as we were packing up and helped coil the mic cables, re-arrange the stands etc so it was nice and tidy for the next band.

And just checked we'd not nicked or trashed anything.
[/quote]

The one in this place used to check amp/pa settings as soon as he walked through the door. He took the time to talk to the band and find out what they wanted and then help tweak settings if necessary.