what sort of wattage for rehersal with drummer

[gub]

Looking for something a boit smaller than my big trace just for rehersals ,what do you guys think would be a minumum bearing in mind its with a drummer too .

[warwickhunt]

How many variables in that question!

Rehearsal; based on an average drummer in a band not at silly volumes, through a cab with average sensitivity I'd want about 150w BUT there are loads of folks who could do it with a lot less and if you have any variables in that mix you might want more wattage!

[Subthumper]

Lots!

[Lozz196]

300, not being pushed - I just prefer to not push amps too hard. Though of course, depends on speaker configuration/sensitivity as well.

[chris_b]

[size=4]What is a bit smaller? What is a big Trace? How loud a drummer? [/size]

[size=4]Why don't you just turn your "big trace" down?[/size]

[xgsjx]

Depends on the sensitivity of the speakers being used & many other factors. What can you get for £xxx to play with a drummer would be a better question to ask.
Does your drummer use sticks, hotrods or brushes?

So how much are you looking to spend? £500 will get you a small light rig that would be most capable.

[Blademan_98]

I rehearse with a 50w Orange crush.

In my rehearsal space (30 square metres) the drummer uses flats with full size kick drum and snare.

I find I can hear it ok but it is around 3/4 - full volume

[Phil Starr]

It does depend upon so much but it is surprising what you can get away with. Just for fun I tried practising with our insane teenage drummer with a 20W practice amp going out through a fairly decent 1x12. by turning the bass down a few dB and boosting the mids it was perfectly audible and cutting the bass was probably an advantage in a small room. This set up would achieve 110dB at 1m. (that's peak of course) Without checking drums chuck out about 100dB at the same distance so it should be up about there in terms of volume, and it was.

Nowadays i use a Harke kickback10 (125W through a single 10" speaker) as my practice amp. No problems at all and the kickback feature means I hear more detail anyway.

[Anders]

[quote name='gub' timestamp='1328123325' post='1522248']
Looking for something a boit smaller than my big trace just for rehersals ,what do you guys think would be a minumum bearing in mind its with a drummer too .
[/quote]
Minimum:200w tube and good medium sized cab,or 100w tube and very good big cab.

[thodrik]

My general idea has always been a 300 watt at 4 ohms MOSFET amp played through a decent 8 ohm 1x15, 2x10, 4x10 or 2x10 should be enough for rehearsal or gigs with a PA. I played for 8 years through a 300 watt Trace 1x15 combo and though.. TImes and technology have moved on a fair bit since then. An efficient 200watt class D head and good 1x12 could do the job in many cases.

It really just depends though, and your guess is really as good as anyone else's. Drummers vary quite a bit in terms of loudness. It also depends on the room, where you place your amp, how far away you are from other band members/your amp/your hearing etc..

[Thurbs]

Wow some interesting wattages quoted there. I practice with a LB 30w valve amp and the BFB Midget-t 112. You are not shaking the foundations but perfectly audible.

IMHO practice shouldn't be about volume and also tends to mask a multitude of sins. I like to practice at just over talking levels so you don't need ear protection and have the clarity and definition of all instruments.

I tried this with a rock band once and had some interesting results. I got everyone to try it out for one rehearsal, they were so uncomfortable about the clarity and space given that they thought our playing was "wrong". When I repeatedly questioned what this meant they both could'nt articulate anything specific, just that it was wrong. We then turned up to stupid levels, played the same songs as well if not slightly worse than before and they felt so much better.

Doing this made me realise how for some people playing is just as much about the 'feel' rather than the 'technical' part of playing. Whilst I am barely better than a beginner, I try to approach making music with both in mind. Having said that, as the DB is much more of a physical instrument, I do tend to 'feel' playing it more than the BGs I have, but the feeling isn't about volume as amplifying them is a real challenge!

Do you need loads of watts to play well?

[BassPimp66]

I'd say 350W and above, with a 4x10, played softly, not pushed.
I do slap here and there. And, I notice that smaller wattage/amp give me a sound that is too thin.
Also, I do not couple my amp with the floor. I do not like the infra-bass when the amp in on the floor.

[Ed_S]

[quote name='Thurbs' timestamp='1328255703' post='1524361']
Wow some interesting wattages quoted there. I practice with a LB 30w valve amp and the BFB Midget-t 112. You are not shaking the foundations but perfectly audible.

IMHO practice shouldn't be about volume and also tends to mask a multitude of sins. I like to practice at just over talking levels so you don't need ear protection and have the clarity and definition of all instruments.

I tried this with a rock band once and had some interesting results. I got everyone to try it out for one rehearsal, they were so uncomfortable about the clarity and space given that they thought our playing was "wrong". When I repeatedly questioned what this meant they both could'nt articulate anything specific, just that it was wrong. We then turned up to stupid levels, played the same songs as well if not slightly worse than before and they felt so much better.

Doing this made me realise how for some people playing is just as much about the 'feel' rather than the 'technical' part of playing. Whilst I am barely better than a beginner, I try to approach making music with both in mind. Having said that, as the DB is much more of a physical instrument, I do tend to 'feel' playing it more than the BGs I have, but the feeling isn't about volume as amplifying them is a real challenge!

Do you need loads of watts to play well?
[/quote]

Interesting experiment with the rock band. My own personal feeling (as a heavy rock / metal bassist) is that rather than masking your problems, rehearsing at (or even above) gig volume highlights the issues you have with tone, timing, technical ability to play parts, managing feedback etc. Of course, the caveat is that you have to fully accept that if you sound discordent you have issues that need addressing; it's not acceptable, inevitable, or happening just because you're loud. If you really work to iron out the problems, you'll find that as the band gets tighter and the performance gets cleaner and more polished, you start to almost sound 'quieter' anyway because you've lost the dross in the sound and people aren't competing for the same frequencies as much. It seriously depends on what your overall sound as a band consists of, but I know that if we'd rehearsed our material at just over talking volume then taken it out on a stage and cranked it up, we'd have had a terrible shock!

Do you need loads of watts to play well? Not necessarily, but in some contexts (and beyond the writing phase) I genuinely think it can help...

To the OP, I'd say a good quality 1x12 with a couple of hundred watts behind it should suffice.

[Phil Starr]

I think the OP is wanting to carry as little as possible to the rehearsals. Rehearsals can be for different reasons, if you want to test out your stage sound then you have to take all the gear you will be using but if you are just working on songs then I'm a real believer in keeping the volume down. You can just simply hear so much more and if that sounds 'wrong' whilst you are playing then it is probably because it is wrong, as someone has said.

Because our hearing is logarithmic doubling the power only gives an extra 3dB of sound, noticeable but not dramatic. Ten times the power only gives 10dB which subjectively is twice as loud. A 200W amp is only twice as loud as a 20W amp. That's why you are getting so much variation in power suggested.

If you are using 200W into halfway decent speakers at a rehearsal in a small to medium sized room then, unless it is turned right down you should be wearing ear defenders. There's something slightly mad about carrying in a huge amp and speakers if you have to turn it down or block it out provided you can afford an alternative.

[KiOgon]

[quote name='Thurbs' timestamp='1328255703' post='1524361']
Wow some interesting wattages quoted there. I practice with a LB 30w valve amp and the BFB Midget-t 112. You are not shaking the foundations but perfectly audible.

IMHO practice shouldn't be about volume and also tends to mask a multitude of sins. I like to practice at just over talking levels so you don't need ear protection and have the clarity and definition of all instruments.

I tried this with a rock band once and had some interesting results. I got everyone to try it out for one rehearsal, they were so uncomfortable about the clarity and space given that they thought our playing was "wrong". When I repeatedly questioned what this meant they both could'nt articulate anything specific, just that it was wrong. We then turned up to stupid levels, played the same songs as well if not slightly worse than before and they felt so much better.

Doing this made me realise how for some people playing is just as much about the 'feel' rather than the 'technical' part of playing. Whilst I am barely better than a beginner, I try to approach making music with both in mind. Having said that, as the DB is much more of a physical instrument, I do tend to 'feel' playing it more than the BGs I have, but the feeling isn't about volume as amplifying them is a real challenge!

Do you need loads of watts to play well?
[/quote]

I couldn't agree more Thurbs!

I don't think I could even think at the volume levels some people seem to be suggesting by their recommendations for 'practise' gear

[discreet]

I use a Markbass LM250 for rehearsals. Very light and portable and it's [i]loud[/i], given the specs. I use it with an 8ohm cab, so I guess I'm getting around 120-150 watts? It's my only rig actually, I use it for gigs too, but always with PA support.

Plus you get the legendary VLE and VPF filters, which is a huge bonus! IMHO.

Edited February 3, 2012 by discreet

[xgsjx]

If it's something for portablilty then any of the small class D amps & a decent 2X10 or 2X cab will be more than capable.
Have a look at Markbass, Genz Benz & TC electronic (to name a few). Ironically, the TC RH450 is 236 watts at 4 ohm (not 450 as the name would suggest), but it is more than capable of doing the needful.

[Lozz196]

Must admit, my suggestion was based more on the fact that I like to have an amp "ticking over" than running flat out. Plus, I`m not overkeen on amps into a single speaker, prefer the fullness of sound from multiple speakers.

[gub]

Cheers guys by the sounds of things i need to get my act together as just using the trace elliot combo 350 for rehersals and gigs atm ,seems to work ok for the size of places we do now but seems everyone else uses seperate amp and cabs

[xgsjx]

Not everyone! I use a Markbass 2x10 combo.

[mikeh]

I use my gig rig for rehearsals, SWR 700 watt amp and 2x Aguilar GS112's. Give me loads of headroom, and gives me chance to try different things out, which i couldnt do really at a gig.

[shizznit]

I used a Trace Elliot 1215 300w combo for rehearsal for a few years and that was plenty loud. It all depends on your drummers attack. If you can be a tad louder than the kick without stressing out the bass amp then everyone should work around that as far as volume levels are concerned. Believe me, everyone else in the band will be tighter if the can clearly hear the kick drum and bass working together at a balanced volume. If you have a light drummer, tough! Everyone will have to turn down to compensate because as soon as you lose the drummer in the room you will have no idea what he is up to and sooner rather than later you will get the "That's what I always play!" response. Rehearsing at gig levels is totally unnecessary in most situations. Get it right at rehearsal, give everyone a chance to be heard clearly and worry about rocking Wembley later.

(can you tell this is a touchy topic for me?)

[scalpy]

We had a drummer less rehearsal the other night, everyone in the living room with Apple Loops being run through a small monitor. The guitarist was complaining he couldn't hear the drums but there was no way of giving the loops any more juice, so we had a bit of a chat about playing technique and actually listening not just hearing with everybody (2 vocalists- 2 saxes- keys, bass and guitar) et voila, loops spring out nice and clear. We had a full rehearsal and applied the same principle, the volume was easily manageable, my rig was set to 9 o clock and this is with the drummer using a fully cranked Ludwig snare.

In my rock band the drummer and guitarist are a sound engineers nightmare, psychopath and 120W half stack respectively but they play well and I just don't need volume to keep up. That's using a 140W head at 8 ohms into an old Hartke 410.

My point is that threads about how much power keep coming up and it normally ends with 3 general schools of thought, "I manage with a tin can and a piece of string" or "There ain't no substitute for cubes" or the scientists quoting the barefaced website. I can't recall many people saying play tidily, with rhythmic precision and musicality and it's amazing how much you can hear all of sudden. The best thing about this is you don't need a van full of boutique gear or the technique of Wooten, you just need to listen!

I shall sheepishly climb down from my soap-box now...

[Truckstop]

+1

My old band only ever had full volume rehearsals about 20 times over 3 years. To write songs and practise riffs together we'd all play in someones bedroom extremely quietly. In fact, we could hear the clicking on the strings more than the amplified volume! We got so tight because any mistakes were instantly audible and immediately sorted out! Drummer used to tap away on a silent drumkit (those weird mesh ones) in the corner.

But when we did have full volume rehearsals, 400w through 8x10!

Truckstop

[xgsjx]

[quote name='scalpy' timestamp='1328438015' post='1526788']
We had a drummer less rehearsal the other night, everyone in the living room with Apple Loops being run through a small monitor. The guitarist was complaining he couldn't hear the drums but there was no way of giving the loops any more juice, so we had a bit of a chat about playing technique and actually listening not just hearing with everybody (2 vocalists- 2 saxes- keys, bass and guitar) et voila, loops spring out nice and clear. We had a full rehearsal and applied the same principle, the volume was easily manageable, my rig was set to 9 o clock and this is with the drummer using a fully cranked Ludwig snare.

In my rock band the drummer and guitarist are a sound engineers nightmare, psychopath and 120W half stack respectively but they play well and I just don't need volume to keep up. That's using a 140W head at 8 ohms into an old Hartke 410.

My point is that threads about how much power keep coming up and it normally ends with 3 general schools of thought, "I manage with a tin can and a piece of string" or "There ain't no substitute for cubes" or the scientists quoting the barefaced website. I can't recall many people saying play tidily, with rhythmic precision and musicality and it's amazing how much you can hear all of sudden. The best thing about this is you don't need a van full of boutique gear or the technique of Wooten, you just need to listen!

I shall sheepishly climb down from my soap-box now...
[/quote]

That's a good point you've made. Getting everyone to "listen" to all the parts of the song they're playing as opposed to playing whatever fits the chord sequence & just noodling as loud as possible. My last rock band was often guilty of this, where we played way too loud & the guitarist wouldn't shut up with his widdly widdly weewee throughout the verses!
The Mrs liked our songs, came to one rehearsal & left after 20 mins as she couldn't hear the songs for the sheer volume of it. Was just an attack on her hearing.
Gigs was no different & even a few of the audience said "Wow, you guys are loud!", not a compliment IMO.

There's a lot of good guitarists out there, but there's very few great guitarists that know how to play volume wise & sit in the mix.
There's a guitarist in my team at work & he's always saying how passionate he is about guitar & has a collection of instruments & amps & learns a song note for note, yet he says he'll only ever play through a full Marshall stack (In a pub? You're having a laugh!) & he wants me to join his new band (I declined).
There's another chap who's the B/F of another team mate & he came to my last gig & asked if he could steal me for his band, I just laughed & this was on his FB page after fitting a humbucker in place of the neck p/u on a Telecaster "New pup is LOUUUDDD" & "Beautiful sound and most importantly didn't squeal like a biatch under serious volume". Says it all really.

I like my current band in the fact that the guitarist is the singer & he plays electro acoustic, but that mandolinist!
When the drummer joins, he uses either hotrods or brushes.