binky_bass Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Hey, Been looking at some foderas recently and maybe its just me, but the seem almost unattainably expensive... Don't get me wrong, they are excellent instruments, but with a price tag of over $10,000 new in wondering why the command this price tag when there are multiple other stock and custom basses out there which are just as good for half the price... The woods and electrics don't seem to be better than options for a custom, I just can't get My head round the price tags. Any thoughts? Just curious is all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 yeah, I was thinking about that, I mean the Red bull F1 car is the most expensive, and to be honest it just looks a bit like the others on the grid, why not save money with a williams? I mean its the same thing and the carbon and electrics don't seem that much better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mokl Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 This has been discussed so many times, but essentially boils down to geographics (ie where they are based) and supply and demand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 If you find one that is worth it to you, then good luck. I haven't found one and they are not my thing anyway, atm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 To the OP, you should probably have good read of [url=http://basschat.co.uk/topic/166099-ethical-responsibility-from-high-end-luthiers/]this thread[/url] first and then maybe [url=http://basschat.co.uk/topic/166290-fender-or-fodera/]this one[/url] too. I find some attitudes to custom instruments hard to believe... No one would ever suggest that basses from Fender, Gibson or Rickenbacker were exact substitutes for each other. Those manufacturers each build basses to their own individual concept and each has it's own style and sound. So why is it that when we're talking about high end luthiers to their instruments become completely interchangable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Didn't you see the recent tread about expensive basses and how were they worth it? The bottom line is; who are we to say if anything is expensive and if enough customers queue up to buy expensive basses that a 2 - 3 year waiting list develops, then the prices would seem to be just right for those involved are making and buying. What we think doesn't matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
binky_bass Posted February 6, 2012 Author Share Posted February 6, 2012 I agree with the sentiment that what wr think doesn't matter, that's pretty much they way most things in life go. And as for ricks, fenders, gibsons etc they're pricetags are somewhat more realistic. And as much as 'if you had the custom, charge what you want' may apply here I still find it difficult to understand why a Wooten yin yang deluxe is worth $14,500. But yes, each to their own, and foderas do hold their value, but I can't help but think that as much as they are great basses, the cons of the price much outweigh the pros of the instrument. (PS I didn't see/read any similar topics, I'll go look ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Supply/demand. They have a large waiting list. Bear in mind the majority of Fodera owners are either professionals who play for a living, or those who are on extremely healthy salaries, (unheard of these days!). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 [quote name='binky_bass' timestamp='1328520960' post='1528264'] ....PS I didn't see/read any similar topics, I'll go look.... [/quote] I wouldn't bother. It was the usual stuff, too expensive vs if you can afford it with no one giving any ground! Your thread's covered the main points already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 (edited) [quote name='binky_bass' timestamp='1328520960' post='1528264'] And as for ricks, fenders, gibsons etc they're pricetags are somewhat more realistic. [/quote] If that was a reply to my post then I think you've misunderstood what I was getting at. In my specific terms no-one in their right mind would suggest to a Fender jazz player that a Gibson EB0 is going to be an adequate substitute, so why is it when we're discussing the difference between custom luthiers does the argument seem to come down to the only important difference between instruments made by one luthier and another is that of price? However... To answer your OP specifically: On a personal level if you want a Fodera bass and from playing experience only a Fodera bass will do and you don't have the money required to buy the bass you want then yes you could say that they are too expensive. OTH if you look at how the price versus the waiting times for a Fodera bass have changed over the last 5 years on so then you'd have to say that the current prices are certainly more realistic now and they may still be a little too cheap! Edited February 6, 2012 by BigRedX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shizznit Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 The only time I have picked up a Fodera was at Mars Music in Dallas, TX about 10yrs ago. It was a slightly battered second hand Emperor 6 string belonging to the store manager and that was selling for $8800!!! Goodness knows what the resale value of that instrument would be in today's money. I only played it for 10mins as I didn't want to give the indication that I was interested in buying it, but it was enough time spent to get a bit of insight about the brand offers. The bass itself was very raw and flat and I wasn't really into the tone, however the build quality was incredible. It played like butter and felt awesome and it has been the only 36" scale bass that I haven't struggled with so far. It also had one of the nicest buckeye burl tops I have ever seen. Really pretty bass. That said... When I left the store and got into my car I couldn't help but giggle a little bit. I thought about it a bit more and I thought to myself what do Fodera do so differenty that other builders don't to warrant their prices? There are several threads on this forum about fair pricing, so I am not going to go into that on this occasion, but I have picked up many top end Sei's, Overwater's, MTD's, Wal's, Ken Smith's, etc etc...that have felt just as good, have the same level of build quality and pleasing tone for less that half the price of a top end Fodera. Other than carrying the claim that "I own a Fodera" to impress other folks I can't see the point. I would expect a Fodera to be twice as better of those other brands I have mentioned at twice the price, but they are simply not. The difference is marginal in the real word. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gust0o Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 It's entirely subjective, I would contend. You'd struggle to make it an objective call - you could work out the relative market values of the components and materials, but then you're into taking a stab at the relative value of the time and effort of the market, and putting a price on his or her skill; before you come back to the nub of it, that expensive is relative to your ability or willingness to pay a given price. $15k isn't ready cash - but if I had to have one, I'm sure I could find it; but I cannot see myself ever wanting one. It's significantly more than I would be willing to pay, and I've never spent more than £1k on a bass. Blame my mother's Yorkshire heritage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Good point. I'd bet loads of us have spent $15k on a decent car or, say, a few years of holidays. Such instruments might not be petty cash but are probably affordable if committed enough - and that's where the subjective value judgement lies. £6 for a packet of fags makes a 20 per day habit £42 per week or £2184 per year. Give up smoking for five years and there's your brand new Fodera. Simple. Except I don't smoke so I'll have to stick with my Fender MIJ P. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leschirons Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Fodera keep making them because people will keep buying them so they're only too expensive to those of us that can't afford them. I can understand $10,000 for a new bass more than I can $60,000 for a secondhand Dumble 50watt combo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 It is one of those scenarios that brings the whole 'if I won the lottery' I would own one. Heck, I don't even really like Fodera design but the build and attention to detail is truely on another level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakenewmanbass Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 It's called the law of diminishing returns and is a very well established principle... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muttley Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 There's probably [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veblen_goods"]a bit of this[/url] in play too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigwan Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 I always thought they were SERIOUSLY overpriced snake oil. Then I tried 3 different ones. That assumption applied to 2 of them. I would have given my left nut for the 3rd one... £4500. It was hard getting out of the shop and keeping my credit card in my pocket. It seriously rocked my world... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molan Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Snow permitting, I'm hoping for a new, to me, Fodera to arrive today It's an old one though, 1983, the 30th one ever built. In terms of supply & demand stuff the litte story I saw last year kinda summed it up for me. Fodera had a cancelled order for an Anthony Jackson Presentation. This was the full on top of the range model with titanium geegaws. They offered it out to their mailing list (which I'm on) and it sold in less than 24 hours at a frightening $22,500 (they have gone up to $24,000 now). Also they recently released the new Matt Garrison Signature Standard model of which just 30 will be made this year. They sold the lot in under a week at $8,750 each. I know that Phil at Bassgear has one on order so we'll be able to see one in the flesh when it arrives. I don't think there's anyone in the States that has the demand (with any sort of volume anyway) that Vinnie, Joey & Jason have managed to generate. Jason in particular has transformed the business and they are much more efficient with shorter turnaround times and fantastic customer service since he came on board. I won't get into the whole "is a Fodera worth the cost" argument but you can't blame them for selling at a price that fits their level of demand. Having owned 2 previously, an '86 Monarch which I still have and a '10 Yin Yang Deluxe then I do have to say that there can be something really quite special about them. They don't suit everyone (my YY Deluxe didn't have the tone I was after, hence why I sold it) but the people they do suit seem to love them passionately. For me, anything that inspires this kind of passion for a bass guitar can only be a very good thing indeed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shizznit Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 [quote name='muttley' timestamp='1328527738' post='1528409'] There's probably [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veblen_goods"]a bit of this[/url] in play too. [/quote] That's a very plausible description about this topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 I saw a full-on Wayne Rover while out walking my dog this morning and thought you'd have to be mad to buy a giant gas-guzzling monster like that these days but clearly there are plenty of buyers for them. Innuendos aside I can only assume that the people who buy stuff like that have a different attitude to money than me, or a strong desire to be seen driving a bling car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gust0o Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 [quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1328532081' post='1528493'] I saw a full-on Wayne Rover while out walking my dog this morning and thought you'd have to be mad to buy a giant gas-guzzling monster like that these days but clearly there are plenty of buyers for them. Innuendos aside I can only assume that the people who buy stuff like that have a different attitude to money than me, or a strong desire to be seen driving a bling car. [/quote] I know a few people who drive them, and would argue that status is a major part of the decision-making process. Despite the significant price tag, I wouldn't say that the people I know with them are significant earners - the most common route has been credit, or the ability to purchase the car through a business, and then lease it back. Ways and means, and all that. It's up to the individual as to what they wish to spend their money (or credit) on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
binky_bass Posted February 6, 2012 Author Share Posted February 6, 2012 I suppose all this really sums up to the whole 'designer brand' theory's. Though unlike some brands, at least fodera carries a worthwhile reputation. And as much as I do think I'd rather spend $14,500 on several others things, i suppose with supply and demand etc then foderas are a bass marketed with a boutique 'not everyone can own us' attitude. Much like the 'Wayne rover' Still, a buckeye Burl emporer 6 would be a nicer think to own than a blinged up excuse for a 4x4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 [quote name='binky_bass' timestamp='1328533302' post='1528526'] I suppose all this really sums up to the whole 'designer brand' theory's. Though unlike some brands, at least fodera carries a worthwhile reputation. [/quote] Just because Foderas carry a "worthwhile" reputation doesn't mean that they are capable for building the right bass for you. That's why there's so many different custom luthiers each with their own individual take on what a really good bass should be. If they all did everything then you just go to whoever was geographically closest and the job would be done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molan Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Just a quickie on the Range Rover stuff - some people will buy them because they hold value so well. I run a company car because we're pretty high mileage (for personal use) and I get my petrol paid for too. This has worked out a fair bit cheaper than having a private vehicle. My car is up for renewal at the moment & I've been looking at comparisons. You can lease a new Range Rover Evoque that's worth about £30K for a net rental of £480 a month. A Toyota Rav 4 would cost the same for a £26K car or something that's obviously a lot different like a £30K Alfa Brera Diesel would cost a frightening £660 a month. Buying something that will retain value is an important consideration (applies for a lot of people as far as bass guitars go as well). Oops - gotta go, a man is at the door with a Fodera sized package under his arm. . . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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