Bergantino Cabs etc

[poptart]

Leighton

I know you did not get on with your HT112ER which is a shame, but it is impossible to please all the people all the time.

I do get secondhand Bergies in the shop from time to time, most are from players who already own Bergs and are either downsizing the herd or swopping to a newer/different Berg cabinet (they usually sell very fast I might add)

I will be the first to admit that I see fads all the time and I try to cut through the BS on this and just let the cabs speak for themselves. There is no one cabinet that is universally considered to be the best, however what we do have is a great selection of cabinets all of which bring something different to the party.

At Bass Direct I try to stock cabinets that I feel confident about and which perform with great efficiency and wherever possible, little colouration. I do invite customer to bring their own cabs in to the shop to compare to what I have here to hear what is going on.

Now I will be the first to admit that a blast in a shop is nothing like a gig (hey, I have played at well over 2000 gigs in my lifetime), however there are many variables in the equation that it is often hard to draw conclusive answers as to why some gear seems to suit certain; players, basses, amps, room, music, more that others.

From my experience you should buy the cabinet that fits your form factor (size, weight), your pocket (cost) and primarily the sound and volume you need for your requirements.

I am not a "brand" led person - in an ideal world you should close your eyes when trying gear as your eyes can get the better of you.

So - in conclusion, you can please some of the people some of the time but not all of the people all of the time. Go out and enjoy this varied landscape of bass gear and always remember how lucky we are to have all this great gear to use ;-)

Regards

Mark

[Musicman20]

[quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1328783231' post='1532483']
If your bass and or playing isnt up to scratch it will become obvious fairly rapidly IME, even in a mix.
[/quote]

This is my only issue with Bergantino descriptions. To be honest, if you aren't that great a player, you will know from any amp/cabinet. Yes, tube distortion and compression can cover it up, but to be honest, and fairly clean solid state amp and a cab with a tweeter will show the player they need to brush up.

I think that MIGHT be what puts some people off from the start. They see a somewhat 'over muso' type description that comes across quite patronising and assumes the good ol' rock n roll pick players playing through Ampeg rigs shouldn't try Berg for fear of showing bad technique. Not so.

As with most equipment/vehicles/etc, brands can also bring across 'brand snobbery', which really doesn't feel comfortable with me.

This isn't aimed at any posters here by the way, its just something I've noticed with brands and this failry new 'trend' of ultra clean/almost hi-fi like tone.

[51m0n]

[quote name='Musicman20' timestamp='1328794967' post='1532735']
This is my only issue with Bergantino descriptions. To be honest, if you aren't that great a player, you will know from any amp/cabinet. Yes, tube distortion and compression can cover it up, but to be honest, and fairly clean solid state amp and a cab with a tweeter will show the player they need to brush up.

I think that MIGHT be what puts some people off from the start. They see a somewhat 'over muso' type description that comes across quite patronising and assumes the good ol' rock n roll pick players playing through Ampeg rigs shouldn't try Berg for fear of showing bad technique. Not so.

As with most equipment/vehicles/etc, brands can also bring across 'brand snobbery', which really doesn't feel comfortable with me.

This isn't aimed at any posters here by the way, its just something I've noticed with brands and this failry new 'trend' of ultra clean/almost hi-fi like tone.
[/quote]

I think you misinterpret what I meant then.

The first few times I played with the ae410 in a band setting it cut/punched through so much better than the kit it replaced that it became clear that in that setting I was rustier than I thought. I am not making this up, the drummer was the person who noticed the most, great cab, your playing isnt as good as I remember (b***er!). This was in a very old school blues orientated band, no muso or brand snobbery allowed through that door at all!

This is not a bad thing at all, in fact its absolutely the opposite, its very similar to laying down tracks in the studio the first time, all of a sudden you can really hear what you've played, and to your horror all the crud and string noise, and every timing glitch that was buried in the sheer volume of the live performance is no totally apparent. And you need to fix it without losing the energy.

After a couple of months of regular playing with a great cab you will play tighter since you can hear the mistakes as well as the good bits more clearly. However there is no doubt in my mind that there are a lot of cabs out there that are very hard to hear in a mix (old Hartke ones are a standout for sheer pantsness IME), leading you to belieev you are nailing it when in reality flailing around it is a more accurate description.

As you say any really good clean cab will give you some of that, but the Berg really showed up issues more than anything else I've used. I like and rate the BF S12T because it gives this kind of clarity and sense of what you are really doing as well.

Anyone deciding they dont want this can go and get something else, but they will be found out eventually

[JTUK]

I have to say...why would people put up with a sound that they couldn't really hear or defines anything...?
If it is mud to you, then you can be pretty sure it is even more mush outfront.

I just don't get that at all... if your playing is unclean, you'd want to know..!!
You can dirty something up easily...you can't do it the other way round..IME.

And that playback solo'd in the studio will be a REAL nasty shock...!!!

[Musicman20]

I've DI'd many times without and amp, or used amps that aren't mine, so I tend to just go with it. Coloured or uncoloured, its essentially still me. I've never had an issue recording as yet.

There is something about a coloured amp/cab that adds its flavour to many of the famous basslines we all hear. I don't mind which way I go...coloured, uncoloured, hifi, retro, whatever....I just get stuck in!

Its funny how so many players get a Markbass amp/hifi cabinet and then sling a distortion or Ampeg-type simulation pedal and barely turn it off. That is instant colour, and I like it, but you aren't doing what the amp and cab are there for.

[wateroftyne]

[quote name='Leighton Allen' timestamp='1328810143' post='1533078']
No in all seriousness I'm not dissing the people who use them! i just can't really think of ANY SERIOUS PLAYERS that use them!!!
[/quote]

[poptart]

[quote name='Leighton Allen' timestamp='1328810143' post='1533078']
No in all seriousness I'm not dissing the people who use them! i just can't really think of ANY SERIOUS PLAYERS that use them!!!
[/quote]

Leighton - Mr B does not offer endorsement deals - although many of the Worlds most famous players have approached him interestingly enough, but back off when no free gear/money is available - which tells you everything you need to know about endorsements and deals!!!

Anyway - it is more about what YOU want from a cab not what someone who gets it for free stands next to in adverts.

Again - I understand this cab did not work for you, however I am still rather taken aback by some of the comments on here, after all, each to their own, one man's meat is another man's poison if we all new what the perfect cab for everyone was life would be rather boring ;-)

Regards

Mark

PS - How is like on the South Coast - I hope you are keeping busy.

[Soliloquy]

I've tried them and quite liked them. I thought they were way overpriced for what they are. I didn't think they were particularly 'uncoloured' either, they had a very distinct sound.

I'm puzzled as to why you'd want a cab that hid what you were playing.

[Lozz196]

[quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1328798903' post='1532829']
I think you misinterpret what I meant then.

The first few times I played with the ae410 in a band setting it cut/punched through so much better than the kit it replaced that it became clear that in that setting I was rustier than I thought. I am not making this up, the drummer was the person who noticed the most, great cab, your playing isnt as good as I remember (b***er!). This was in a very old school blues orientated band, no muso or brand snobbery allowed through that door at all!

This is not a bad thing at all, in fact its absolutely the opposite, its very similar to laying down tracks in the studio the first time, all of a sudden you can really hear what you've played, and to your horror all the crud and string noise, and every timing glitch that was buried in the sheer volume of the live performance is no totally apparent. And you need to fix it without losing the energy.

After a couple of months of regular playing with a great cab you will play tighter since you can hear the mistakes as well as the good bits more clearly. However there is no doubt in my mind that there are a lot of cabs out there that are very hard to hear in a mix (old Hartke ones are a standout for sheer pantsness IME), leading you to belieev you are nailing it when in reality flailing around it is a more accurate description.

As you say any really good clean cab will give you some of that, but the Berg really showed up issues more than anything else I've used. I like and rate the BF S12T because it gives this kind of clarity and sense of what you are really doing as well.

Anyone deciding they dont want this can go and get something else, but they will be found out eventually
[/quote]

I`ve found this with my Schroeder cab - and think this is very good. I now have to be even tighter than before, which is great for my playing.

[Musicman20]

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1328818802' post='1533293']
I`ve found this with my Schroeder cab - and think this is very good. I now have to be even tighter than before, which is great for my playing.
[/quote]

The mids, IMO, reveal everything.

[Gunsfreddy2003]

Interestingly I had a rehearsal with an old band last night and we have not played together for 2 years and since then I have invested in the Mark Bass and Berg set up and both the sax player and keyboard player commented on what a great bass sound I had now. In my mind that speaks volumes!

In defence of Mark at Bass Direct what he does (and very well IMHO) is allow you to hear combinations that he thinks work well together, no hard sell no BS just walk in and A/B your existing set up against the myriad of options that he has available. If you know your stuff you will hear what is right for you and buy it and if you don't then you wont! I am not so sure that what you buy in the shop can then sound bad in a band environment?

[Toasted]

[quote name='Leighton Allen' timestamp='1328810143' post='1533078']@musicman20 and 51m0n I'm certainly not worried about my BASS playing. Having studied with some of the worlds best players who I'm still good friends with, I'm in no way in need of covering up my playing!![/quote]

I did a lol.

Wooten's got me on speed-dial too. [i]"sh*t Joe, I just can't get that rhythm for double thumping, can you help me? We need a study-sesh, post-haste, bro."[/i]

Edited February 10, 2012 by Toasted

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='Toasted' timestamp='1328876461' post='1534137']
I did a lol.

Wooten's got me on speed-dial too. [i]"sh*t Joe, I just can't get that rhythm for double thumping, can you help me? We need a study-sesh, post-haste, bro."[/i]
[/quote]

^ Ha ha.

[chris_b]

[quote name='Toasted' timestamp='1328876461' post='1534137']
....[i]I just can't get that rhythm for double thumping, can you help me? We need a study-sesh, post-haste, bro...[/i]
[/quote]

I taught him that.

We still send each other Christmas cards.

[51m0n]

[quote name='Leighton Allen' timestamp='1328810143' post='1533078']
Hi Mark.

First of all i love your shop its Bass heaven!!! You have an awesome range of gear so this is in no way dissing you. I just WANTED TO see if there were people out there who experience what i did.

@musicman20 and 51m0n I'm certainly not worried about my BASS playing. Having studied with some of the worlds best players who I'm still good friends with, I'm in no way in need of covering up my playing!!

does your 4x10 blow the walls down because you turn your amp up to 11 or does it really blow your walls down that is the question????

No in all seriousness I'm not dissing the people who use them! i just can't really think of ANY SERIOUS PLAYERS that use them!!!
[/quote]

Err it really really blows walls down, it is very efficient for a 410 of any make. Massively punchy in fact, and a truly beautiful tone.

Have you ever used an ae410 in anger?

I could not care less who uses what kit, 'SERIOUS PLAYERS' - by which you mean the guys who are looking to get income through endorsements dont interest me in their gear choices at all, they almost all w**** themselves out to the highest bidder - gear be damned. If you fall fo rthat nonsense then thats your look out.

I dont know any 'SERIOUS PLAYERS' (admiring your caps lock fixation btw ) who use Barefaced, doesnt mean that in my opinion the BF S12T isnt one of the best cabs I've heard on a gig anywhere.

The Troll-o-meter is going to blow if you keep this up!

[Toasted]

WHAT SIMON, do you mean that YOU DONT think that VICTOR WOOTEN is using HARTKE because it's the BEST POSSIBLE CHOICE? Are you insinuating that HARTKE ARE PAYing him LOads of CASH to PLAY THEIR cabs?

Edited February 10, 2012 by Toasted

[bozzie]

i really don't know what the big deal is? Cabs are a personal taste. I like Bergs, someone else like aguilars, someone else likes markbass etc, the list goes on.
As for the endorsement issue, just because Joe Soap, or whoever plays X Y or Z cabs really has no bearing on what cab i would buy. As other pointed out Mark at Bass Direct is willing to put several cabs together for you to try/demo at the end of the day it's up to you whatever you buy.
I realise thats its not s gig setting, but bear that in mind when making your choices.

[51m0n]

I couldnt agree more, cabs are a personal thing, but to suggest that Bergs lack any oomph and are in some way the worst cabs ever played is complete and utter nonsense. They are fantastic cabs, beautifully made that deliver seriously great tone. They are by no means the only cabs that sound great in the world, no one said they are, but they are (or at least have been ) a high point in bass cab design for a while, and something of a luxury item to boot.

The lack of any possiblity of a paying endorsement prevents them being advertised with an assortment of bass puppets in front of them, that is all.

ANd yeS I dO tHinK that MaYbe viCTor WootEN chOSE his CAbs basED oN FinaNcials fIRst aND ToUr suPPort ConSIDeraTIons moRE thAn TOne. I dont think he's wrong to, I just think its a load of rubbish to make any assumption based upon what anyone says they're playingg in a magazine advert.

[Hamster]

[size=4][color=#000000][font=verdana, tahoma, arial, sans-serif]...and so, as the Ford Anglia of time fails the MOT test of eternity, and the dappled donkey of fate ambles towards the abattoir of destiny...[/font][/color][/size]