Tell me about the Jazz scene as I need a new challenge

[Linus27]

I am currently looking at a total change in direction and a new challenge over the next year or two. My whole musical career has been a case of playing original music, either a mix of guitar based punk pop, folk, rock and my current project which is acoustic soul pop. However, as I get older (42 this year) and as times have moved on, I am finding that less people my age are going to pubs and clubs to listen to the genre of music I am playing. Its not a case of them not liking it, far from it as my acoustic band is doing very well (Mojo cover CD next month, radio sessions, Paul Weller tour support next month etc) but from a live situation, there are less places to play than say ten years ago and a lot of the venues seem empty. It just seems to be cover bands or teenagers playing to their mates. Nothing wrong with this at all but at my age, I feel like a square peg trying to fit into a circle.

If I am also totally honest, I am getting a little bored of the whole thing. From a bass playing point of view I don't feel challenged anymore. This might sound really cocky but I have always been one of the most if not the most experienced musician in the bands I have played in as well as the most skilled or accomplished. I am also getting really fed up with playing to 5 - 10 people in pubs/clubs. I am getting to the point where I can't be bothered with it anymore. I am just bored of the genre and scene I find myself playing in as well as not feeling challenged as a bass player anymore. I feel old and need to put things in place for what i am going to do for the next 10 - 20 years as a player and playing the same genre to a few people is not what I am looking at.

It would be great to be thrown in at the deep end and work with musicians who are better than me. To start from the bottom again, playing from the seat of your pants, having to think and work things out again knowing that you need to come up to scratch to match the talent of the other musicians.

So, I think its time for a new challenge. I have a couple of ideas for two projects but need to research the feasibility of them first. I have always loved Jazz and my bass lines have always had some kind of walking part to them or jazz feel where possible. Ok, so when I say Jazz that really is a sweeping statement so what I mean is more Jazz venues and the type of music that is played in them rather than guitar based rock, pop, folk, punk etc which I have grown up with. However, I know nothing of the jazz scene and if there is one at all. Is it isolated to London and is it on its arse like a lot of other music venues or is it thriving with people actively going out and listening to bands? Where does one go to check out Jazz bands live and get all the info of new bands, venues etc? I only know of Ronnie Scotts, Jagz in Ascot and I think some Jazz club in Reading. After that i am totally ignorant to the whole scene.

I need to walk away from what i am doing and have done for years as I am bored of it and feel i can't take it any further as a player and as a genre and come back, start again at the bottom.

Sorry for the ramble but needed to get this of my chest and hopefully I can get some good advice, direction and input from people here.

[OliverBlackman]

http://www.stefanredtenbacher.com/2012/01/08/the-funkestra-proudly-announce-their-monthly-gig-at-the-farncombe-cavern-on-the-outskirts-of-guilford/

[Linus27]

[quote name='blackmn90' timestamp='1328704848' post='1531360']
[url="http://www.stefanredtenbacher.com/2012/01/08/the-funkestra-proudly-announce-their-monthly-gig-at-the-farncombe-cavern-on-the-outskirts-of-guilford/"]http://www.stefanred...ts-of-guilford/[/url]
[/quote]

Thank you.

[OliverBlackman]

[quote name='Linus27' timestamp='1328708730' post='1531425']
Thank you.
[/quote]

should have mentioned that this gig was packed last month so i would advise getting there 30-45 minutes before the first band to get a seat.

Also for me funk jazz was what got me into the more traditional oscar peterson, bill evans and miles davis ect. I think its because i could relate to the funk parts and then as my ears accustomed to the jazz side, so did my tolerance of the genre, now i love it!

[lowdown]

If you are used to playing venues & pubs to few or no people, Jazz will be right up your Strasse.


Unless i have been unlucky.


Garry

[Clarky]

you will also need a hat

[Clarky]

Seriously, if playing to large audiences is your thing then jazz is a toughie. I live in Barnes near the famous Bull's Head (London's no. 2 venue behind Rionnie Scotts). Even the bigger names in jazz (eg Stan Tracey, Peter King) barely fill the back room where they stage the gigs and I've sent plenty of bands playing to just a handful of people

[urb]

Hey - I went through exactly the same thing about 15 years ago - maybe more - but I've always loved jazz too and I've been fortunate to turn it into my job (as a journo etc) but from a playing point of view having played in rock bands and funk-ish bands and found the general 'playing roots and riffs' vibe a bit stifling (though it still had if's moments of enjoyment) learning jazz presents not just lots of musical challenges but once you get past the awkward early stages, give you a skill set that will serve you well in terms of reading music, improvising over chord charts and working a lot faster generally than the old way of playing the same set note perfect - transcribing, ear training, extended harmonic ideas, rhythmic challenges etc etc - there are loads of positives for stretching yourself in this way.

I still love rock and riffs etc - but the day I decided "I'm going to play the music I like/love and nothing else' - I not only started doing more gigs, and I should add more [b]paid[/b] gigs, my playing developed faster than it had done in years and all the work I've put in has stood me in good stead for gigs and recordings etc that I'd never have considered myself capable of a few years ago.

Back to your question of the jazz scene the London scene is very well developed and yes it is very concentrated there - venues to check out are The Vortex (Dalston), Pizza Express Jazz Club on Dean Street Soho, Ronnie Scott's has a great mid-week jam on Wednesday in the small Ronnie's Bar, but Mon - Thurs there's a late night set that's relatively cheap to get into in the main room - the Hideaway in Streatham (South London) is superb, I've played there a few times and it's wonderful, they have a jam for beginners/amateurs/pros every Monday that's free for musicians - the there are a couple of clubs worth mentioning down near you are the Watermill Jazz Club in Dorking - they have a great jazz night once a week:

http://www.watermilljazz.co.uk/

Brighton jazz club still operates once a week at the Komedia Studio Bar on Gardner Street, they get in some good names - and you could do a lot worse than check out the Jazzwise gig guide as that's give you a fair idea of what is going on nationwide:

http://www.jazzwisemagazine.com/jazz-gig-guide

Hope that helps - Jazz is great music with plenty of stuff that isn't 'old man's music' at all - bands like Led Bib, Get The Blessing, TrioVD, Troyka, Phronesis, Portico Quartet, Neil Cowley Trio are all based in the UK and are cracking live - many of them are on tour this year and well worth seeing live....

Mike

[urb]

[quote name='Clarky' timestamp='1328712939' post='1531525']
Seriously, if playing to large audiences is your thing then jazz is a toughie. I live in Barnes near the famous Bull's Head (London's no. 2 venue behind Rionnie Scotts). Even the bigger names in jazz (eg Stan Tracey, Peter King) barely fill the back room where they stage the gigs and I've sent plenty of bands playing to just a handful of people
[/quote]

Firstly while there is some truth to what you're saying - the Bull's Head is not the No2 jazz venue in London after Ronnie's - yes it's long established but doesn't have a rep for pulling in vast crowds - the aforementioned Pizza Express jazz Club on Dean street has a capacity of around 120 and I've seen it full on many, many nights - I even played there on a full-to-bursting night - the Vortex often packs in around 100 people for gigs, as does the 606 Club in Chelsea, the Hideaway in Streatham does consistently well, as does Cafe Oto also in Dalston - and the bigger venues like Queen Elizabeth Hall, Barbican, Purcell Room, Royal Festival hall and their various free stages (ie. where the public can see a gig for free - while the band gets paid!) often pack in big audiences.

Like Blackmn90 says funk-edged jazz is a good accessible way of getting into jazz and it's improv side of things - and appeals to a wider audience than purer (perhaps older) forms of jazz. Sadly jazz has a crap public image that's full of cliches and while some may ring true there are plenty of amazing bands and hugely talented musicians making great, innovative and exciting music - well some are anyway

[Linus27]

Thanks Urb, its really reassuring to know that you have been through the same sort of thing as I am feeling now. Its interesting that you mention about improvising over chord charts. To get the ball rolling and see how I fared, I got the iReal app for my Itouch and downloaded hundreds of Jazz songs and then just jammed over the charts and it was a real surprise at how well I could do it and how much fun it was. Its been a great starting point for me.

Thanks also for all the links, they are a great help. When I first decided to play bass some 23 years ago, I locked myself in my room for two years and studied solidly and came out and hit the ground running. So I am planning this year to do something similar and totally immerse myself and soak up as much info as I can.

May I ask, how did you get started? What was the first thing you did to move over into the Jazz scene and away from rock etc? Did you just join a band, start a band or spend a long time studying songs? Again some direction or tips would be appreciated.

[Clarky]

Apologies, didn't want to come on as a total downer - just saying one well-known venue (sorry, i had been told it was No. 2 in London - incorrectly) is a tough one. I'm sure Bilbo can point out just as many vibrant venues!

[urb]

[quote name='Clarky' timestamp='1328714235' post='1531549']
Apologies, didn't want to come on as a total downer - just saying one well-known venue (sorry, i had been told it was No. 2 in London - incorrectly) is a tough one. I'm sure Bilbo can point out just as many vibrant venues!
[/quote]

No worries Clarky - I know you're a man of taste, knowledge and musical discretion - your music's not a million miles from jazz is it? The point is if you look at the older parts of the scene then that's what you'll find - I completely admit that in a big city then you're going to find a younger audience at jazz gigs. It's worth noting as well that Manchester, Bristol, Birmingham and Leeds all have burgeoning scenes packed with great players and exciting new bands etc - the stuff is there you just have to go out and find it - the audiences aren't big but in all honesty audiences for live music seem to be in decline - like Linus said it's covers bands that are pulling in the biggest crowds - which is a wider reflection of the music scene in such straightened times and a generally MORE conservative outlook on things.... sign of the times etc

[urb]

[quote name='Linus27' timestamp='1328714150' post='1531548']
Thanks Urb, its really reassuring to know that you have been through the same sort of thing as I am feeling now. Its interesting that you mention about improvising over chord charts. To get the ball rolling and see how I fared, I got the iReal app for my Itouch and downloaded hundreds of Jazz songs and then just jammed over the charts and it was a real surprise at how well I could do it and how much fun it was. Its been a great starting point for me.

Thanks also for all the links, they are a great help. When I first decided to play bass some 23 years ago, I locked myself in my room for two years and studied solidly and came out and hit the ground running. So I am planning this year to do something similar and totally immerse myself and soak up as much info as I can.

May I ask, how did you get started? What was the first thing you did to move over into the Jazz scene and away from rock etc? Did you just join a band, start a band or spend a long time studying songs? Again some direction or tips would be appreciated.
[/quote]

No worries - glad to be of help - I should add I also joined a funk band and a world music / Algerian band - both of which I got to play a lot of very fun and often really cool/exciting gigs with - I love jazz but I love a ton of other music too - I don't discriminate now in terms of what I'm prepared to play - as long as it's good and I 'feel' it....

RE starting I was lucky in that I know two very talented guitar-playing brothers who were ten times better than me - I would learn jazz tunes by wrote, not reading charts at all but learning the chords etc wholesale - then combing that with my limited scale/harmony knowledge and a bit of technique I just went out and started gigging - sometimes it was good, sometimes it was horrible - but you have to just throw yourself in there - there's no substitute for learning to do this stuff on a gig. Mike Stern made a nice point once that 'it takes a minute' to get the stuff you practice at home onto a gig - and he's right, playing all those ideas in the heat of the moment live, in front of an audience that's sitting just inches from you in a small club really gives you nowhere to hide... and when you do dot it, it's bloody brilliant - it's the best feeling to be playing freely, completely improvising new music in front of a crowd who are enjoying it is really something... you have to do it to really appreciate it - but when it works it's really satisfying.

EDIT - the iReal app is very cool - if you have the latest version you can even export the songs as MIDI files and can drop them into Logic / Cubase - and then create your own tunes - it's great and I love using it as a practice tool - working on specific things like 2/5/1 chord sequences, all the different scales - major, minor, alterted, augmented, melodic/harmonic minors, learning about chord substitutions, different picking techniques - reading and transcribing - it all adds so much more to your musical outlook - so instead of just following the friggin' guitardist you can write your own tunes, explain to other musicians how you want this bit played etc - and feel a lot more confident as a MUSICIAN - not just the bass player.....

[louisthebass]

Have been reading this thread with interest, and wonder if anyone on the forum who plays jazz live has encountered any kind of indifference, or snobbery on a gig because they're using an electric bass instead of an upright?

[Linus27]

[quote name='urb' timestamp='1328715692' post='1531577']
No worries - glad to be of help - I should add I also joined a funk band and a world music / Algerian band - both of which I got to play a lot of very fun and often really cool/exciting gigs with - I love jazz but I love a ton of other music too - I don't discriminate now in terms of what I'm prepared to play - as long as it's good and I 'feel' it....

RE starting I was lucky in that I know two very talented guitar-playing brothers who were ten times better than me - I would learn jazz tunes by wrote, not reading charts at all but learning the chords etc wholesale - then combing that with my limited scale/harmony knowledge and a bit of technique I just went out and started gigging - sometimes it was good, sometimes it was horrible - but you have to just throw yourself in there - there's no substitute for learning to do this stuff on a gig. Mike Stern made a nice point once that 'it takes a minute' to get the stuff you practice at home onto a gig - and he's right, playing all those ideas in the heat of the moment live, in front of an audience that's sitting just inches from you in a small club really gives you nowhere to hide... and when you do dot it, it's bloody brilliant - it's the best feeling to be playing freely, completely improvising new music in front of a crowd who are enjoying it is really something... you have to do it to really appreciate it - but when it works it's really satisfying.

EDIT - the iReal app is very cool - if you have the latest version you can even export the songs as MIDI files and can drop them into Logic / Cubase - and then create your own tunes - it's great and I love using it as a practice tool - working on specific things like 2/5/1 chord sequences, all the different scales - major, minor, alterted, augmented, melodic/harmonic minors, learning about chord substitutions, different picking techniques - reading and transcribing - it all adds so much more to your musical outlook - so instead of just following the friggin' guitardist you can write your own tunes, explain to other musicians how you want this bit played etc - and feel a lot more confident as a MUSICIAN - not just the bass player.....
[/quote]

Once again, many thanks for the reply. It has been very helpful and given me a lot more confidence in my new direction.

[urb]

[quote name='louisthebass' timestamp='1328715958' post='1531585']
Have been reading this thread with interest, and wonder if anyone on the forum who plays jazz live has encountered any kind of indifference, or snobbery on a gig because they're using an electric bass instead of an upright?
[/quote]

All I know is that a lot of pro jazz bandleaders prefer upright for more traditional/modern jazz stuff - but there are more people using bass guitar for the more contemporary cool / electro jazz bands use bass guitar - I think the received wisdom is that "you can't swing on electric" - but try telling that to Laurence Cottle....

One of my fave new bands are World Service Project - really good live - have a look/listen

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVxxOew5w7U

[lowdown]

There are quite a few free Midi Jazz standards knocking around the net,
Some not so good, and some are excellent.
You can then play them back in your DAW, at any Tempo and any Key.
Good for practise and learning, and taking on board changes.

A couple to get along with [Real book related]
[url="http://midiworld.com/jazz.htm"]http://midiworld.com/jazz.htm[/url]

[url="http://mysite.verizon.net/reso4wg2/freejazzmidifiles/"]http://mysite.verizon.net/reso4wg2/freejazzmidifiles/[/url]

Garry

[Thurbs]

[quote name='urb' timestamp='1328715692' post='1531577']
EDIT - the iReal app is very cool - if you have the latest version you can even export the songs as MIDI files and can drop them into Logic / Cubase - and then create your own tunes - it's great and I love using it as a practice tool - working on specific things like 2/5/1 chord sequences, all the different scales - major, minor, alterted, augmented, melodic/harmonic minors, learning about chord substitutions, different picking techniques - reading and transcribing - it all adds so much more to your musical outlook - so instead of just following the friggin' guitardist you can write your own tunes, explain to other musicians how you want this bit played etc - and feel a lot more confident as a MUSICIAN - not just the bass player.....
[/quote]+ loads... It is the best and most valuable purchase I have made.

[urb]

[quote name='lowdown' timestamp='1328717849' post='1531618']
There are quite a few free Midi Jazz standards knocking around the net,
Some not so good, and some are excellent.
You can then play them back in your DAW, at any Tempo and any Key.
Good for practise and learning, and taking on board changes.

A couple to get along with [Real book related]
[url="http://midiworld.com/jazz.htm"]http://midiworld.com/jazz.htm[/url]

[url="http://mysite.verizon.net/reso4wg2/freejazzmidifiles/"]http://mysite.verizo...ejazzmidifiles/[/url]

Garry
[/quote]

+ all the standards you'll ever need right here:

http://irealb.com/forums/

manual here

http://www.irealb.com/page2/

plus you can edit and create your own charts very very easily - sadly this thing is probably going to put band in a box and Jamey Aebersold out of business.... this is the best £5.49 you'll ever spend

[Linus27]

[quote name='Thurbs' timestamp='1328717852' post='1531619']
+ loads... It is the best and most valuable purchase I have made.
[/quote]

I would have to agree with this also.

[lowdown]

[quote name='urb' timestamp='1328718243' post='1531626']
sadly this thing is probably going to put band in a box and Jamey Aebersold out of business.... this is the best £5.49 you'll ever spend
[/quote]

Band in the box ain't no great loss,
But JA, I kinda grew up with all his stuff, and it would be sad.
He feels like a member of my family.


Garry

[urb]

[quote name='lowdown' timestamp='1328719780' post='1531652']
Band in the box ain't no great loss,
But JA, I kinda grew up with all his stuff, and it would be sad.
He feels like a member of my family.


Garry
[/quote]

Totally agree man JA is an institution but unfortunately it's adapt or die today - I love the playalongs but some are really out of tune and are very strictly arranged around the original version of the tune - which is good but - I won't go on here but they can get a bit annoying after a while

[Cairobill]

ireal looks great!

[phil625sxc]

[quote name='Linus27' timestamp='1328714150' post='1531548']

May I ask, how did you get started? What was the first thing you did to move over into the Jazz scene and away from rock etc? Did you just join a band, start a band or spend a long time studying songs? Again some direction or tips would be appreciated.
[/quote]

If you're ever anywhere near Stoke Newington on a Monday night I play in the house band for a really laid back, friendly and informal jazz jam night, you'd be welcome to come and sit in for a few numbers if you fancy that for a bit of experience ??

[Linus27]

[quote name='phil625sxc' timestamp='1328723085' post='1531729']
If you're ever anywhere near Stoke Newington on a Monday night I play in the house band for a really laid back, friendly and informal jazz jam night, you'd be welcome to come and sit in for a few numbers if you fancy that for a bit of experience ??
[/quote]

Hey thank you very much. I'm not that close I'm afraid but thanks for the offer and when I am a bit further down the road, it would be good experience for me.