jjay69 Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Linus im just reading you post for the first time, brilliant, I could have written that myself. 43 this year, played in loads of original and cover rock / blues style bands to next to no punters and am in dire need of a change / new challenge. I too have taken my first steps down the route of "the Jazz" ! So far it's working for me, as in giving me the challange i was after and a complete change of style. Practicing at home has taken on a whole new meaning, new scales, modes and arpeggios to learn, suddenly everything about playing bass has become more interesting again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linus27 Posted February 8, 2012 Author Share Posted February 8, 2012 [quote name='jjay69' timestamp='1328730315' post='1531887'] Linus im just reading you post for the first time, brilliant, I could have written that myself. 43 this year, played in loads of original and cover rock / blues style bands to next to no punters and am in dire need of a change / new challenge. I too have taken my first steps down the route of "the Jazz" ! So far it's working for me, as in giving me the challange i was after and a complete change of style. Practicing at home has taken on a whole new meaning, new scales, modes and arpeggios to learn, suddenly everything about playing bass has become more interesting again. [/quote] Hey jjay69, that is so cool and it seem along with Urb and yourself that I am not alone in how I am feeling. Can I ask you to share how you went about the change. Was it just a case of learning to play lots of jazz songs or head first into a new band? Any other tips or direction you can share. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjay69 Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 Well first i should say i still just have my little toe dipped into the jazz world, i've had one rehearsal and another one booked. It's amazing after so many years of playing you can still feel like a complete amateur at something. I liked the idea of playing fusion, jazz funk kinda stuff, but quickly realised that i'd need a better grounding in more traditional jazz to do this. Barely a week or so into some new scales and modes when i spotted an add for a guitarist from a rock background looking to attempt some "raw" jazz standards ! perfect me-thinks, i'll give it a go. Anyway it turns out he was quite advanced and the standards he chose sounded boring as hell to me, still i gave it a go. I found trying to learn by ear like i always used to with other cover songs simply didn't work, a whole new approach was required, this threw me into a bit of a panic, but once i got my head round it, things were improving. He booked us a reahersal with drummer a week later, i was expecting a disaster, but bugger me if it wasnt fun ! First rehearsal ever in my life where I... A. sat down through the whole thing and B. spent most of it staring at my A4 printouts following the pattern. Sound boring ? far from it, talk about rewarding and satisfying. Course my rock mates are taking the piss which is fine, they're just jealous, i never imagined me doing this either. i think i was quite lucky with the guys, we're on a similar wavelength, no rush, all trying a new style so lets enjoy it. No way would i step into a gig like this so this way is the perfect introduction for me. Turns out those same boring standards are actually great fun to play and having to think while playing is just the thing to fuel my enthusiasm again. Give it a go i say Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
urb Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 This thread is great and I hope it gives others looking to make a change have the courage of their convictions to go for it. I'll just add that I stated playing my first jazz gigs in the late 1990s and I feel like I've come some way since - but I've still got a huge amount to learn - anyway I also must say that I learnt a huge amount and made a ton of contacts through going to jam sessions - when I moved to London in 2004 it took me six months to get the balls up to sit in with the pros at my local jam session in Brixton. When I did I felt like I just about survived but I hated my sound - felt like I completely blagged my solo - but the keyboard played turned to me after and said he thought I did great - so I couldn't have done that bad! It really is a case of throwing yourself out there and going for it - you can practice until you're blue in the face but eventually you have to get out and do it for real - then you're actually playing jazz... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linus27 Posted February 8, 2012 Author Share Posted February 8, 2012 Thanks guys, this is all really helpful and to think I nearly never started this thread for fear of sounding like a knob and to be ridiculed. Just goes to show hey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louisthebass Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 [quote name='urb' timestamp='1328716537' post='1531598'] All I know is that a lot of pro jazz bandleaders prefer upright for more traditional/modern jazz stuff - but there are more people using bass guitar for the more contemporary cool / electro jazz bands use bass guitar - I think the received wisdom is that "you can't swing on electric" - but try telling that to Laurence Cottle.... One of my fave new bands are World Service Project - really good live - have a look/listen [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVxxOew5w7U[/media] [/quote] I think you're right - good post. Enjoyed the YT video too - they seem to be quite a cutting edge type outfit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil625sxc Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 [quote name='urb' timestamp='1328736230' post='1532026'] This thread is great and I hope it gives others looking to make a change have the courage of their convictions to go for it. It really is a case of throwing yourself out there and going for it - you can practice until you're blue in the face but eventually you have to get out and do it for real - then you're actually playing jazz... [/quote] +10000 ! I started playing jazz about 4 years ago after years of wanting to but never thinking I was good enough - in my own mind I'm still nowhere near good enough, but I can now do jazz gigs and am learning every time I do one, after being thrown in at the deep end depping for a friend's quartet a while back. I still see myself as more of a jazz imposter than a jazz player, but iI'm getting there !! ps. open invitation to anyone who wants to sit in for few numbers on the jam night to gain some experience playing standards - it's a really laid back, no pressure, friendly type of night with a decent house band so perfect for this...just let me know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil625sxc Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 [quote name='Linus27' timestamp='1328729187' post='1531854'] Hey thank you very much. I'm not that close I'm afraid but thanks for the offer and when I am a bit further down the road, it would be good experience for me. [/quote] no problem, you'd be welcome anytime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Self talk....’sh*t. All these guys wanting to play Jazz? I’m going to lose gigs. Oh, they are all in Surrey and London. OK, then, here goes.’ The ‘Jazz Scene’ is not a single entity and there are several things going on at once. You have your local big bands where the local MU or similar enthusiasts organise a weekly blow though some charts. These bands can range from great or terrible but they do offer regular playing opportunities if you can get a foot in the door. The requisite competences are rudimentary reading skills and good time (local big bands to you are Pat Kelly’s Penduluum (Reading) and Bill Castle’s The Chosen Few (Bracknell). Then you have your local jam sessions where you can just turn up and sit in. Great places to cut your teeth when you are starting out and need a place to play but the standards can vary greatly from great to appalling and you have to go along and see what is happening. In don’t know what’s in Surrey now but there should be jams around and about, particularly as you go into London (there was one in Staines, IIRC, and at Jagz in Ascot) The next stage is the commercial ‘function band’ type of jazz which sees players working the same circuits as other wedding/function bands and it is a case of getting your name out there as a competent player and waiting for a gig to come along. Theses kinds of gigs range in quality from great to appalling (same a pop, rock and funk bands) and it s a question of trial and error and of seeing what is out there and taking work where you can. These bands sometimes find themselves playing local venues who are trying to ‘get some jazz evenings going’ but the money is generally poor so it tends to be duos and trios. It is as much a case of who you know as it is what you can play. There are then the local rhythm section with visiting artists scene which sees a regular rhythm section (usually piano/bass/dr or guitar/bas/dr) backing a visiting artist. These are great gigs if you can get onto one because you get to play with major UK jazz players like Art Themen, Don Weller, Stan Sultzman etc. Trouble with these is the gigs are often ‘dead men’s shoes’ and whoever holds the gig keeps it until some traumatic life event intervenes and the gig becomes free. I have depped loads of these but have never been the first call guy who gets the regular work. I have resisted the temptation to assassinate Bernie Hodgkins so far but it is early days in Suffolk so watch this space Right up until this level, the repertoire is standards (The Great American Songbook) and so-called jazz standards (the ones everyone plays – Miles Davis, Charlie Parker, Duke Ellington, Thelonious Monk etc etc) And, at the top of tree, there are the originals bands who are playing their own material; creative, on the cutting edge etc. You can go straight into this ‘strata’ if you are lucky but the standard is monstrously high and, if there is a gig to be had, everyone wants it! This is as much about who you know and who you spend your time playing with so, if Django Bates lives next door and needs a player regularly, you are in with a chance. Regarding the electric bass prejudice. Its out there and its real. Many will book a good electric player if they can’t get anything else but there are still some (many?) who would rather book a bad double bass player than a good electric player (I tend to think there are gigs I wouldn’t want anyway as those kinds of decisions are perverse and must reflect on the musical values of the leader). If a jazz band is leaning towards funk/fusion etc, an electric bass is fine but such bands are not that common in the provinces so think about a double bass as it will bring you more work. Core advice: Learn to read charts. A must if you are going to work with people who never rehearse. Learn what extensions and slash chords mean. They are less common in popular music and you may see stuff you are not ready for. Learn to read dots; even if you can’t read fly sh*t on toilet paper, being able to read eighth notes is going to save your arse on a daily basis so put some time in on it. Soloing is less important than you think; you can, if you wish, tell and MD not to give you solos if you want and many respect that (maybe one or two a gig – I do gigs where I get asked to solo on every tune and it bores me never mind anyone who is listening ). Pick the tunes you want to solo over based on what you are prepared for. I can’t solo over Giant Steps without looking like a tit so, if it is called, I don’t solo. Never play Fever, Canteloupe Island, Watermelon Man and especially never, ever, EVER play Moondance (or I will have to kill you). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 PS I forgot to say, I love Jazz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linus27 Posted February 9, 2012 Author Share Posted February 9, 2012 Thanks Bilbo. I was hoping you would add your views to this thread so very appreciated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Bilbo staggers away from the still warm bodies of a Surrey Bass bash where the assembled throng all played Moondance in unison thinking he wouldn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linus27 Posted February 9, 2012 Author Share Posted February 9, 2012 [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABxlQkIOfmA[/media] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linus27 Posted February 9, 2012 Author Share Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) Sorry, got asked to do an encore [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNsmF9JTpuI[/media] Edited February 9, 2012 by Linus27 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliverBlackman Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 there is also w3 near ravens court park. It is mostly a younger crowd (early 20's) but everyones a professional musician so its too a high quality and you can play tunes such as the chicken, watermelon man ect. without bilbo brutally killing everyone in sight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linus27 Posted February 11, 2012 Author Share Posted February 11, 2012 This morning I thought I would fire up iReal and have a go at writing a bass line to one of the 1200 Jazz songs I have downloaded as well as learning to read the chart. The first one I picked was a track called 52nd Street Theme which if honest I have never heard and had no idea how the bass line goes in it. So attached is what I came up with. Am I heading in the right direction with writing bass lines for this genre? Any tips from the pros? Sorry for a little bit of sloppyness on the changes. If anything, its a good exercise to improve technique as some of the changes are quite fast. [url="http://soundcloud.com/michael-boylan/52nd-street-theme"]http://soundcloud.co...nd-street-theme[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliverBlackman Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 Great start linus. Now try using more chromaticism and start the chord on another chord tone other than the root. Also once you feel comfortable, try to avoid repetition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linus27 Posted February 11, 2012 Author Share Posted February 11, 2012 [quote name='blackmn90' timestamp='1328969005' post='1535416'] Great start linus. Now try using more chromaticism and start the chord on another chord tone other than the root. Also once you feel comfortable, try to avoid repetition. [/quote] Thanks blackmn90. Yeah I was aware of the repetion and will work on that. Also starting the chord on a tone other than the root is something I tend to do anyway as a player, usualy linked with some kind of run but I admit, at this stage I was just trying to keep up May I ask what you mean by chromaticism in a musical context? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliverBlackman Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 so if you had F7 going to Bb7 you could play F F# G A. The F# is a chromatic between the F and G and the A is a chromatic of the Bb7 chord if you were to start the chord on the Bb. Basically a chromatic note is a semi-tone away from the target note and is heavily used in walking lines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linus27 Posted February 11, 2012 Author Share Posted February 11, 2012 [quote name='blackmn90' timestamp='1328969853' post='1535430'] so if you had F7 going to Bb7 you could play F F# G A. The F# is a chromatic between the F and G and the A is a chromatic of the Bb7 chord if you were to start the chord on the Bb. Basically a chromatic note is a semi-tone away from the target note and is heavily used in walking lines [/quote] Thank you, that makes sense. I know I do that anyway but never knew what it was called Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soliloquy Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 [quote name='lowdown' timestamp='1328712210' post='1531507'] If you are used to playing venues & pubs to few or no people, Jazz will be right up your Strasse. Unless i have been unlucky. Garry [/quote] It must be just you . I played a jazz club in Bilston a few weeks ago on a Sunday lunch time and the place was packed. I've played at markets and other pubs outside in the freezing cold and always get a good crowd. I think jazz music is quite an enduring musical genre, and people who like it will come to watch it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassace Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 I don't mind Cantaloup Island at all, although I agree with Bilbo's other dislikes (hates). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted February 11, 2012 Share Posted February 11, 2012 [quote name='Soliloquy' timestamp='1328970379' post='1535439'] I played a jazz club in Bilston [/quote] Would that be 'The Trumpet ' then ? Garry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcater Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 For smaller venues it might be worth checking out the pizza express in maidstone and the grey lady tunbridge wells. Both do have a mixture of music including some jazz. Some very talented people playing at these. Also the Tunbridge Wells Thursday night free jazz on the pantiles in the summer - watch for Iain Rae's Hard Lines. Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted February 13, 2012 Share Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) [quote name='lowdown' timestamp='1328972299' post='1535464'] Would that be 'The Trumpet ' then ? Garry [/quote] The Trumpet is class. PS, another vote for iRealb. If you haven't got it yet... stop messing about, just get it! Edited February 13, 2012 by EBS_freak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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