MythSte Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 Im normally pretty clued up on bass stuff, im happy with impedence and varying tone pots and active pre-amps and all that business. But whats the deal with comparing outputs? Is telling someone that a bass has a hot output really a selling point? Surely you could just turn up the amp a little bit more to compensate for a slightly weaker signal? Youd have to be doing something awfully wrong if you had your amp completly maxxed out and only the bass with the strongest output will do! Do excuse me if im missing something, Id love to be informed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bass_ferret Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 Well I had the output of one of my GB's reduced cos it was so much hotter than my other bass at the time. High output is good for long cables and lots of effects but is probaly over-rated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bnt Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 The way I understand it, "hot" is not so much about raw level, but the signal/noise ratio. The original idea behind onboard active circuitry was to boost the signal close to the source, with a short run of wire between pickup and amp, because long cable runs can mean loss of signal while picking up more noise. EMG took that idea to the extreme, putting the preamp inside the pickup casing. Amp boost stages also introduce noise, so a higher low-impedance signal helps minimize noise in that way too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 Its probably usually better for the signal to noise ratio too. And it sounds better to metal heads... THIS BASS IS LOUDER THAN THAT ONE! Ofcourse the correct metal reply is: "But my amp goes up to 11" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budget bassist Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 passive basses can be irritating sometimes because of the low output when my band has bedroom recording sessions, they found themselves having to boost the bass levels on the PC because it just didn't cut through. Luckily they have a bassist with two active basses now and the higher output means they can actually hear their bassist [quote name='charic' post='171035' date='Apr 6 2008, 10:35 PM']Ofcourse the correct metal reply is: "But my amp goes up to 11"[/quote] Haha why was i thinking that too? lmao Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MythSte Posted April 6, 2008 Author Share Posted April 6, 2008 [quote name='budget bassist' post='171044' date='Apr 6 2008, 10:57 PM']passive basses can be irritating sometimes because of the low output when my band has bedroom recording sessions, they found themselves having to boost the bass levels on the PC because it just didn't cut through. Luckily they have a bassist with two active basses now and the higher output means they can actually hear their bassist[/quote] Well with bedroom recordings i can understand, but surely on any real recording setup youd just turn up the input gain? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutToPlayJazz Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 Difficult one to explain, this one... The output on my Geddy Lee (and previously Mex Jazz V) was rather weak. Yes, you can turn up the input gain on your rig, but the lovely sweet hifi sound you get at low volumes (or on smaller practice amps) suddenly becomes very harsh when the gain is raised. I can filter some of this out with the preshape filter on my MarkBass amp, but it's very noticable with passive basses. The weaker the output on the instrument, the more gain you're going to have to add & the harsher it's going to get. My active basses are much more even in this respect, ie. no particular loss of quality, possibly because you need a lot less gain to get the same volume - Ie., sweeter! Funny the difference it makes... I was at Mart's house yesterday & we compared his Lakland DJ5, Fender Precision USA, Lakland Bob Glaub with Villex mods & my USA S1 Jazz all through the same practice amp with no changes in settings. There was a massive difference in quantity of outputs between the four. So all in all, if you have a passive bass, it does make a difference, but to a lesser extent on an active bass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budget bassist Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 [quote name='ste_m3' post='171050' date='Apr 6 2008, 11:04 PM']Well with bedroom recordings i can understand, but surely on any real recording setup youd just turn up the input gain?[/quote] Well yeah but we're not that pro yet only reason i can see for low output being bad (if you have the cash for a preamp and whatever) though active basses can be tonally different and more punchy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lfalex v1.1 Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 [quote name='bnt' post='171034' date='Apr 6 2008, 10:35 PM']The way I understand it, "hot" is not so much about raw level, but the signal/noise ratio. The original idea behind onboard active circuitry was to boost the signal close to the source, with a short run of wire between pickup and amp, because long cable runs can mean loss of signal while picking up more noise. EMG took that idea to the extreme, putting the preamp inside the pickup casing. Amp boost stages also introduce noise, so a higher low-impedance signal helps minimize noise in that way too.[/quote] I think BNT's got it about right (but OTPJ's remarks about sounds becoming more harsh as the amp's levels rise is relevant, too.) I find [i]some[/i] actives can be a bit "peaky" if their volume control is at 100%. I'm not entirely sure why. Probably because the big peaks from the pick-ups are making it to the (instrument's) pre-amp unhindered, which it then attempts to boost / modify as applicable. Some have trim pots to help match output level (I like these!) My Yamaha, however, has Di Marzios and is passive, yet delivers the same same sort of levels as an 18v active bass... Go figure! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MythSte Posted April 7, 2008 Author Share Posted April 7, 2008 its all making sense now! You know when you here a little bit of an argument (In this case signal to noise ratio) and you just turn your nose up at it because you dont really notice, then a bit of a hero comes along (OTPJ!) And explains it in a way that clicks! So essentially, its not something that makes a good bass, but one of those things that makes a good bass an [i]excellent [/i]bass... Now i think about it this is probably one of the reasons why my bongo sounds so much nicer at low volumes than any other bass ive had! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Some passive pups have very hot outputs. I believe the 1/4lbs are considered to be fairly hot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bremen Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 [quote name='charic' post='171301' date='Apr 7 2008, 12:06 PM']Some passive pups have very hot outputs. I believe the 1/4lbs are considered to be fairly hot[/quote] yeah I use 1/4lbs on my PJ and they're not far behind an active EMG-P. I never have to go anywhere near 11 on the amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 My Gus G3 5 string with humbuckers and passive circuit is louder than all my other basses (active and passive) except the Gus G3 active 4-string and Lightwave Sabre. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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