How close to the original bass line would you play in a covers band?

[molan]

I went to see a friend's band tonight which was full of 'seasoned' pros who have been playing covers for a very long time indeed.

I was listening to the bass parts (as I'm sure we all do at gigs!) and couldn't believe how far away from some of the original lines he was playing.

I'm not talking about wildly over-playing or just sticking to simple root notes.

He was literally playing bass parts that were 'wrong' compared to the originals. They were in tune and timing was fine but some really well known parts were simply ignored.

I'm talking about some lines that, for a bass player, almost define some songs - stuff like James Brown, Wilson Pickett, Marvin Gaye etc.

The rest of the band were obviously striving to cover the original parts so it wasn't like they'd chosen to rearrange each song.

It really irritated me and I wanted to grab him by the lapels and give him a good shake, lol.

I mentioned this to a fellow muso in the audience, a keys player, and he hadn't noticed anything untoward.

Am I wrong in thinking that if you're covering a classic you should aim to be faithful to the original as possible or am I just being a 'bass snob'?

[discreet]

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1329615936' post='1544980']
Am I wrong in thinking that if you're covering a classic you should aim to be faithful to the original as possible or am I just being a 'bass snob'?
[/quote]

No you're not, and imho you should aim to be faithful to the original. There was a thread about this on here recently.
People are lazy, aren't they? They do just enough to get by. I've found that people won't, or can't, listen for long enough, or closely enough to the originals to be able to do them properly. They just won't put the work in. The attitude in a lot of covers bands is, 'the punters will be hammered anyway, so why bother?' This is unacceptable afaic.

There's a very good reason why the originals were successful and popular, and if you think you can do better, you should be writing hit tracks yourself in an originals band. Otherwise get it right, or don't bother.

Edited February 19, 2012 by discreet

[thepurpleblob]

I've seen this question generate a surprising amount of division. Personally I enjoy the challenge of getting as close as I can to the original line. Sometimes I don't have the skill or don't have the time or the recording isn't clear enough - however, that's my aim. Some people think putting their own twist on it is important. I think the only thing that really matters is that you don't loose the spirit of the original. Unless, of course, you mean to

Just reading Hiram's posting - learning parts for a covers band (I've been in a few) is, I think, a skill in itself. I've got quite efficient at it now. I actually quite enjoy having to learn loads of songs for a new set. Slowing down, pitch shifting and looping software is your best friend.

Edited February 19, 2012 by thepurpleblob

[Noah Deere]

I agree, I've always tried to do covers note for note - partly because if that's how the original was then that's how I feel I ought to play it, and partly to stop people like me in the audience pointing out the simplified parts

[Jacqueslemac]

For me, it's a compromise. If the bass part is intrinsic to the song, then I play as close as my ability allows. If the original isn't that important, then I sometimes make my own up.

I play for my pleasure, not money.

[Muzz]

Yep, I tread a line between the definitive stuff being absolutely right, and not killing myself if the details sometimes aren't (but the overall sound is good). As an example, we do Forget You (Cee Lo Green), and there's some pretty random twiddlefills near the end which I haven't bothered with learning exactly, and no-one has ever noticed my substitutions. On the other hand, fanny around with the bass intro to Sweet Child Of Mine, and you're on shaky ground.

[stef030]

alway try to get note,chop,fill perfect,
for me as a covers band you are covering the original song
which should be to the best of you and your bands ability,



cheers
stef

[discreet]

[quote name='Muzz' timestamp='1329643414' post='1545092']
...As an example, we do Forget You (Cee Lo Green), and there's some pretty random twiddlefills near the end which I haven't bothered with learning exactly, and no-one has ever noticed my substitutions...
[/quote]

Ha! First thing I did was to totally nail these fills, then I concentrated on the rest of the song!

[Paul S]

I tend to stick to the original line but very occasionally will change one. Two examples

'Brown Sugar' - practically every version of this I listened to had a different bassline, so I ended up making one up that included bits I thought were relevant to the song but missed by other instruments in our band.

'Aint No Love' by Whitesnake (itself a cover). I love the track, a really soulful number, but hate the original bassline that wanders about constantly providing no groove whatsoever. I play a much simpler version that I think holds the tune together much more effectively.

[Jambo10]

I try to get everything as close to the original as possible, the vast majority are there. But the odd one maybe needs a wee tweak.
We sometimes elongate the song by doubling up a chorus to flesh it out a bit, and maybe add a few bars in there, or indeed shorten a few longer more mundane songs, so again possibly an outro has to be a slight bit different.

But yes, on the whole, to be as close to the original as possible actually terms the phrase...covers band I suppose!

[Ed_S]

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1329615936' post='1544980']
I was listening to the bass parts (as I'm sure we all do at gigs!)
[/quote]

For me, that's where your argument goes astray. I honestly don't spend my time at gigs listening especially intently to the bassist (or any other single band member) because I know it would 'disconnect' me from the performance as a whole.

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1329615936' post='1544980']
It really irritated me and I wanted to grab him by the lapels and give him a good shake, lol.
[/quote]

Just think, if you'd got all the other people together in that venue who were similarly affronted by his playing, you could have shaken a lapel each!

And for the record, I think covers are fair game until you call yourselves a tribute band!

[dave_bass5]

I try and get as close to the original as i can. If im struggling then ill just get close. I wont spend hours on it unless the bass line is very integral and distinctive.


The way i see it is that most people wouldn't or care or know if its slightly different, but i'd like to think it as close as possible and that ive done a good job on it.

[Blademan_98]

If it is distinct and prominent in the mix, I learn it.

If not, I go with the flow and groove!

[skej21]

Whilst I try to keep some original lines the same for authenticity, i can also understand why some bassists choose to do something totally different... It's hard to be creative and push things forward if you stick close to the original all the time.

We as musicians also seem quite hypocritical about covers. If a covers band move away from the original it's seen as a sin, but if an established act decides to do a totally different cover of a song, everyone raves about how great it is. Why can't a covers band have that freedom too?

Edited February 19, 2012 by skej21

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='Paul S' timestamp='1329645047' post='1545121']
... so I ended up making one up that included bits I thought were relevant to the song but missed by other instruments in our band.

[/quote]

This is a point worth making.

Sometimes it's not a good idea to do a perfect copy of the original bassline, because you need to fill in for 'missing' instruments.

When I play [i]Don't Be Cruel [/i]my bassline has to cover both the original bass and also the (missing) piano.

[Bilbo]

I have to admit that my knowledge of many of the covers I do in function bands is superficial to say the least. Some of them are tunes I heard years ago and have some idea of the 'feel' that I picked up by osmosis. Other tunes are things where I have never heard the original. The drummer and I often laugh when we hear the original only to realise the grooves we play are nothing like the original. The punters are dancing, the other guys are happy. I am jazz musician. I make it all up as I go along.

[scalpy]

[quote name='skej21' timestamp='1329646280' post='1545149']
Whilst I try to keep some original lines the same for authenticity, i can also understand why some bassists choose to do something totally different... It's hard to be creative and push things forward if you stick close to the original all the time.

We as musicians also seem quite hypocritical about covers. If a covers band move away from the original it's seen as a sin, but if an established act decides to do a totally different cover of a song, everyone raves about how great it is. Why can't a covers band have that freedom too?
[/quote]

Agreed. Also, you can so easily look up the original artist and see them doing many different arrangements of their songs. We all know Jamerson was a demi-god but he played it fast and loose with his lines live. When he was no longer around Marvin Gaye didn't even attempt to make the new guy follow that part. My band want the audience to feel we are credible so sometimes we go for as accurate as possible, sometimes we simplify and sometimes off on a tangent. If you want to do note for note join an orchestra.

[jezzaboy]

I try and keep as near as possible to the original bassline until I run out of talent/ability which can happen very quickly! After that I just make up a part that sounds ok to me and hopefully the rest of the band.

Jez

[alanbass1]

Our band deliberately do not try to exactly copy the original parts (with the exception of the lyrics). We look to play in the 'spirit' of the song and strive to put our own take on the song. Sometimes this means playing the original bass lines and other times just playing what feels right in the context of the way the band is interpreting the song. The audience seems to be happy and so are we,.

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='scalpy' timestamp='1329646843' post='1545159']
If you want to do note for note join an orchestra.
[/quote]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfGIl06mqhI

[discreet]

[quote name='skej21' timestamp='1329646280' post='1545149']
...If a covers band move away from the original it's seen as a sin, but if an established act decides to do a totally different cover of a song, everyone raves about how great it is. Why can't a covers band have that freedom too?
[/quote]

Because covers bands are generally not well-known established acts!

[Blademan_98]

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1329646615' post='1545154']
. I am jazz musician. I make it all up as I go along.
[/quote]

This is why I have been listening to so much jazz recently!

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='skej21' timestamp='1329646280' post='1545149']

We as musicians also seem quite hypocritical about covers. If a covers band move away from the original it's seen as a sin, but if an established act decides to do a totally different cover of a song, everyone raves about how great it is. Why can't a covers band have that freedom too?
[/quote]

My thinking about this is that if i go and see an established band (i assume you mean originals) then im going to hear those songs, not covers. If they throw one or two in, in their own style i probably enjoy them.
If i go and see a covers band then im expecting to hear songs i like and know. I dont mind if they deviate a bit, and would expect it, but some bands go way off tangent with covers, to the point that they loose the original feel.
I would say we (or actually some) musicians feel they need to make their mark on everything, or they think they can do it better, so do change things, not for the better, but so they can feel they have been "creative". It doesn't always work.

[discreet]

I've said my bit. I'm off to practise the bass. Must get those lines note-for-note.

[b]UNFOLLOW! END COMMUNICATION! BLEEP![/b]

[Blademan_98]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1329647234' post='1545173']
I've said my bit. I'm off to practise the bass. Must get those lines note-for-note.

[b]UNFOLLOW! END COMMUNICATION! BLEEP![/b]
[/quote]

But if I quote you, you will still get the reminder.......

I too am off to [s]improvise[/s] learn the notes!