How close to the original bass line would you play in a covers band?

[discreet]

[quote name='Blademan_98' timestamp='1329647882' post='1545193']
But if I quote you, you will still get the reminder...
[/quote]

Stop it, I've got a gig Thursday! Must get on...

[Coilte]

Personally, I like to get fairly close to the original bass lines, but I can also see the argument for the opposing view. After all, it is a [b]covers[/b] band, not an [b]imitation [/b]one. The former would suggest putting your own mark on a song if you so wish.

I doubt if Joe Cocker's version of "I get by with a little help from my friends" would have been so popular if he had stuck strictly to the "Beatle's" version. I'm sure there are lots of other examples too. To name one...Coltrane's version of "My Favourite Things." A "slight" deviation from the original there, and no less popular for it.

Edited February 19, 2012 by Coilte

[TheGreek]

Make it your own!!

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2klJgOidqc&list=PL9A92B81E97E1D70C&index=5&feature=plpp_video"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2klJgOidqc&list=PL9A92B81E97E1D70C&index=5&feature=plpp_video[/url]


[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAdal53PKmk&feature=BFa&list=PL9A92B81E97E1D70C&lf=plpp_video"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAdal53PKmk&feature=BFa&list=PL9A92B81E97E1D70C&lf=plpp_video[/url]

[essexbasscat]

There's a problem Huston. Does the question of intent come into it ? e.g.

A band develops recognition for it's own identity and has an identifiable sound. They then do a cover of a someone else's well known song, but with a slight difference, which makes identifiable as them doing it. Smooth Criminal by Animal Ant Farm comes to mind. It's often down to arrangement.

A lot of this used to happen in the 60's, where many bands in the charts at the time would do the same song. The Seekers and The Springfields both had a hit with the same song 'Island of Dreams'.

So which original to follow ?

Or is it a case of being recognisable as your own band doing a song ?

Each to his own perhaps. However, if you are the hired bassist in a recognised band, the onus may be on you to play the recognised part. Unless you are a famous bassist known and hired for your own style. Bit of a minefield really.

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='essexbasscat' timestamp='1329649342' post='1545224']
They then do a cover of a someone else's well known song, but with a slight difference, which makes identifiable as them doing it. Smooth Criminal by Animal Ant Farm comes to mind. It's often down to arrangement.

[/quote]

In a band i used to dep with we were once asked to do the Michael Jackson version of the Alien Ant Farm song at a wedding. I kid you not

[Hobbayne]

I spent a whole afternoon perfecting the bassline to 'The Seeker' by The Who, only to find that the drummer was playing something completely different to the original version, when I asked him he said it wasnt important to play it to the record.
This caused a complete racket as the bass and drums clashed, so I had to play 4 to the bar instead.
So the moral is, if you have to play it note for note, make sure your drummer does too!

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='Hobbayne' timestamp='1329649818' post='1545243']
I spent a whole afternoon perfecting the bassline to 'The Seeker' by The Who, only to find that the drummer was playing something completely different to the original version, when I asked him he said it wasnt important to play it to the record.
This caused a complete racket as the bass and drums clashed, so I had to play 4 to the bar instead.
So the moral is, if you have to play it note for note, make sure your drummer does too!
[/quote]

Happens to me quite a bit. This then makes the song "our version", which to me means its a cocked up version that hasn't been re arranged, its just that someone couldn't be bothered to learn it and so we all have wasted our time

[JTUK]

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1329615936' post='1544980']
I went to see a friend's band tonight which was full of 'seasoned' pros who have been playing covers for a very long time indeed.

I was listening to the bass parts (as I'm sure we all do at gigs!) and couldn't believe how far away from some of the original lines he was playing.

I'm not talking about wildly over-playing or just sticking to simple root notes.

He was literally playing bass parts that were 'wrong' compared to the originals. They were in tune and timing was fine but some really well known parts were simply ignored.

I'm talking about some lines that, for a bass player, almost define some songs - stuff like James Brown, Wilson Pickett, Marvin Gaye etc.

The rest of the band were obviously striving to cover the original parts so it wasn't like they'd chosen to rearrange each song.

It really irritated me and I wanted to grab him by the lapels and give him a good shake, lol.

I mentioned this to a fellow muso in the audience, a keys player, and he hadn't noticed anything untoward.

Am I wrong in thinking that if you're covering a classic you should aim to be faithful to the original as possible or am I just being a 'bass snob'?
[/quote]

I don't pay much notice to the original part, I'm more interested in getting a part that works with what everyone else is doing and prefer a spin on things
rather than a clone part..but you have to exercise good taste about where and how far you go with this.

Some parts are defintive as well so you just have to be aware.
No 1 rule..if it ain't working and you don't realise, you are a tool or crap... or words to that effect

[deepbass5]

Interesting comments Guys, I try to faithfully learn the line on the record, but as many have stated which version, it is important the band is given the same version to learn and not just head off to YouTube. Last couple of songs we learned GaGa. You and I, played on UK Radio is the Mark Taylor version with a semi country guitar riff. This was difficult to find. But was what everyone was hearing. Maroon five's move like Jagger we did the YouTube (live at the Voice 2011) version; it was a cleaner less synth based version and easier to establish your parts.
Band Line up. We changed from 5 to 4 pieces about 10 years ago, so with no keyboard I had to re evaluate my contribution to each song, the Guitarist also. Not every song but I did start to listen as a punter, where was the energy focus, that may mean me doing a mundane repetitive phrase, and not put in the sexy bass riff, and the guitarist may have to learn the clean sax break, than use his new fuzz pedal.

[size=2]But yep I will listen to the bass player all night and not dance too. That’s what we do[/size]

[Paul S]

[quote name='dave_bass5' timestamp='1329650048' post='1545248']
Happens to me quite a bit. This then makes the song "our version", which to me means its a cocked up version that hasn't been re arranged, its just that someone couldn't be bothered to learn it and so we all have wasted our time
[/quote]

The 'our version' chestnut! This used to bother me with a band I was in. The keyboard player always trotted that out as an excuse for not learning the part properly or not being able to do it properly. You end up with a set full of homogenised junk with all the highs and lows knocked out of it.

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='Paul S' timestamp='1329651264' post='1545270']
The 'our version' chestnut! This used to bother me with a band I was in. The keyboard player always trotted that out as an excuse for not learning the part properly or not being able to do it properly. You end up with a set full of homogenised junk with all the highs and lows knocked out of it.
[/quote]

Youve been to my gigs then ;-)

[Paul S]

[Machines]

I generally stick with the original unless it's beyond me and then I will simply it, sometimes I might add a few 5ths/octaves in to spice it up if it's simple but certainly nothing extravagant !

[JTUK]

We had Dury's 'stick' down to do...so I knew I had to really get the part to a point I was happy with it.
The band then junked it..and that part can be a lot of work...as it didn't feel right which was supposedly down to me.


hmm..the keys and gtr couldn't get their parts down , but that was my fault..!! With diefintive parts like that or Hysteria or Sex machine...you have to really NAIL it or not bother.
I wont do half cocked versions..they either stand up on their own or we bin it. the latter being the best thing a band can do, IMO.
Thankfully, the drummer came to the rescue and said it wasn't our sort of track anyway... and that was the most sense talked about re that song..!!

[peteb]

Assuming that we are copying the original version (rather than rearranging the song) I always play the part how I would if I had got the gig with the original artist

Someone mentioned ‘Ain’t No Love In the Heart Of The City’ by Whitesnake – if you listen to the various live versions, each different bass player approaches the song completely differently and plays a different part, whereas on ‘Give me All Your Love’ they all play virtually identical parts! Easily identifiable or defining parts (such as the intro to Sweet Child as mentioned earlier) mean that you really have to stick to a note-for-note approach

I also think that some people misunderstand the approach that ‘pro’ musicians will take – many pros will take the easiest way of covering a gig that they can get away with! This applies to the gear they will take to the gig and to learning the songs. They will also approach a pub / low paying function gig completely differently than they would a high paying / prestigious one………

[molan]

I should add that the songs that really bothered me were ones were I think the bass line is an intrinsic part of the song.

Obvious examples I can remember were:

I Feel Good - just didn't play that core bass line that holds the verses together (it's not like this is hard to play either)

My Girl - again, to my ears, the bass is a crucial part of this song and overplaying with lots of extra fills is just pointless

Honky Tonk Woman - a great groove with dynamics brought up & down between the initial verses & choruses by simply not playing any bass. When the bass comes in it's such a simple part. Last night the bass was played all the way through the song with many more notes than old Bill W ever played. With the whole band going hell for leather through the entire song it just seemed to lose all the feel.

[icastle]

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1329646615' post='1545154']
I have to admit that my knowledge of many of the covers I do in function bands is superficial to say the least. Some of them are tunes I heard years ago and have some idea of the 'feel' that I picked up by osmosis. Other tunes are things where I have never heard the original. The drummer and I often laugh when we hear the original only to realise the grooves we play are nothing like the original. The punters are dancing, the other guys are happy. I am jazz musician. I make it all up as I go along.
[/quote]

With the exception of the 'I am a jazz musician' part (), I tend to fall into this category.
However, the proviso being that if the song has a particularly distinctive bassline that 'makes' the song, then that's what I'll play.

Like Bilbo, I'm often playing covers where I've not always heard the original, and that's always assuming, of course, that the version you're covering [b]is[/b] the original and not a cover of a cover.

Is it laziness?
I'd argue that it takes a lot more musical 'skill' to play something 'new' that fits seamlessly, both musically and artistically, than it does to copy what has gone before.
The original bassline was only one bassists 'take' on what they should play when the track was originally worked on and I've certainly changed basslines on original stuff I've played over the years when I've felt a better avenue appear.

For me, removing that challenge would make playing music extremely unrewarding on many levels.

[icastle]

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1329658181' post='1545387']
I should add that the songs that really bothered me were ones were I think the bass line is an intrinsic part of the song.
[/quote]

Ah
If the bass line is what makes the song then you're going to end up with a total mess if you deviate from it.

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1329658181' post='1545387']
Obvious examples I can remember were:

I Feel Good - just didn't play that core bass line that holds the verses together (it's not like this is hard to play either)

My Girl - again, to my ears, the bass is a crucial part of this song and overplaying with lots of extra fills is just pointless

Honky Tonk Woman - a great groove with dynamics brought up & down between the initial verses & choruses by simply not playing any bass. When the bass comes in it's such a simple part. Last night the bass was played all the way through the song with many more notes than old Bill W ever played. With the whole band going hell for leather through the entire song it just seemed to lose all the feel.
[/quote]

Dunno how many times I've seen 'less is more' quoted here on BC, but it's certainly true.
The catch seems to be that 'in the heat of battle' that gets forgotten and it becomes an exercise in seeing how many notes you can squeeze into a bar.

I'm no great Rolling Stones fan so my knowledge of their music is sparser than William Hagues hair, but I've always found that there's a huge tendency to play it a hell of a lot faster than the original.

[Paul S]

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1329658181' post='1545387']
Honky Tonk Woman - a great groove with dynamics brought up & down between the initial verses & choruses by simply not playing any bass. When the bass comes in it's such a simple part. Last night the bass was played all the way through the song with many more notes than old Bill W ever played. With the whole band going hell for leather through the entire song it just seemed to lose all the feel.
[/quote]

Strangely enough one of the worst renditions of this I have heard for a long time was by Bill Wyman's Rhythm Kings. He played bass in it from the first chorus onwards and nearly all the band was there there whole time. I think this is a classic example, though, of less is more, along with the other perennial, ahem, pub band favourite 'All Right Now'.

[BottomE]

Ultimately its all about whether the punters liked it. If yes, then no harm done.

[discreet]

I suppose it does depend a little on the kind of material you're covering. A nine-piece band I'm in play mostly classic Stax-type soul numbers. The bass lines are well known, fairly high in the mix and tend to propel the songs along while the drums often take almost a secondary role. So playing these lines differently would be very noticeable.

For example, if you played a different line to Duck Dunn's excellent propelling bass line on Sam and Dave's 'Soul Man', it would be very obvious. Same goes for James Brown's 'I Got You (I Feel Good)'...

Edited February 19, 2012 by discreet

[Blademan_98]

I think that most agree with the OP, if it sounded out of place, it was wrong!

If you can change the bass line and it fits so no one notices, you have done well.

This is what I have spent today practicing!

[LawrenceH]

None of the bands playing covers which I've enjoyed watching most have stuck to the originals. What matters is the musicality of the part in the context you're playing in.
OTOH some people seem to expect a cover to be a clone, and struggle to hear an alternative take on it as anything other than wrong. A lot of the same people probably enjoy covers bands more than originals, most of us are pretty conservative in that sense - we like what we know! But if you give it a chance then subverting expectation can be great fun.

[leroybasslines]

Interesting thread! I think that there are some lines that define a song and are a big part of what makes a band want to cover the song and why people want to hear it. James Brown tunes would definitely come in that category: I don't understand the point of playing Sex Machine without at least making a nod towards the feel and form of what Bootsy played. However, I'm not really in the note for note camp; I'd rather find the feel, learn some fills and then take them and play it my way. I don't often hear the players of originals themselves playing their studio lines note for note - they'd rather have fun and push the lines live.

Having said that, I did a Beatles concert for charity a while back and felt that I HAD to play some of Macca's lines note for note. If I didn't, it just felt wrong - some of those lines are etched on my musical consciousness and when I played around with them I felt dirty! All My Loving was one, Little Help From My Friends was another. However, tunes like Come Together felt more free and I was happier playing the key bits but moving around within what Macca played on the record. That was one of the most amazing musical experiences of my life - we went really nerdy and agonised over every detail of about 38 songs. Bliss!

While I'm talking about that, you can buy the album here and give to charidee (second one down): [url="http://www.changingtunes.org.uk/albums.html."]http://www.changingt...uk/albums.html[/url] It's a charity that works with prison inmates to help them sort their lives out by teaching music and hooking them up with other musos to form bands when they get out etc. I don't work for them but often help them out with big concerts like the Beatles one. I thoroughly endorse finding out more about Changing Tunes and perhaps bunging them a few quid!

Edited February 19, 2012 by leroybasslines

[musophilr]

Good thread. FWIW I'm being auditioned (again) for a bass gig this week and they gave me a list of songs to learn. Some of them I can play note for note (assuming I've heard the original correctly), in a few places I've thought of elaborations I could use if they were considered to be enhancements, and the odd one or two basslines are "intelligent guesswork" which seems to fit when I play with the original. There's a Shadows number for which I can read the bass part out of the book, but that's not helping me to learn it! I guess I'm starting with the original each time with the willingness to nobble it later if I have to.