Amps for Rehearsal Studio - Urgent help needed...

[warwickhunt]

Your mate needs to take into consideration that a lot of folks using rehearsal rooms are complete fcukwits when it comes to using gear! Not all but you'd be amazed.

Reliability and ease of use are paramount; my mate runs a rehearsal studio and he had LOADS of grief when he bought cheap cr4p the first time round and it took no time for the gear to die/get wrecked. Our own personal gear might get used a couple times a week (more if you use it in the house) and gets used by someone who knows how it works; rehearsal rooms can have gear running 12 hrs a day, 7 days a week and being used by folks who don't have the foggiest idea about input gain never mind ohmage issues (more in a second). As such I'd personally be looking at Peavey gear as it has a proven track record (old Trace gear stands up to abuse but then you are talking used). Also, though they may not be everyone's cup of tea I'd suggest combos rather than separates; reason being that I've known bands swap cabs around and plug multiple cabs in using all sorts of cr4ppy guitar leads and it is all too easy to have a bassist grab a bass amp and plug it into a guitar 4x12 (using some totally inappropriate cable) and before you know it you have a blown 'guitar' cab or worse if they stick a couple of 4 ohm cabs on an amp that operates at min 4 ohms and you have a fried amp (bonus of some of the Peavey gear is that it is safe down to 2 ohms... though you don't tell your rehearsal space customers that ).

Not trying to put him off but he needs to assume that everyone is an idiot... then he won't be disappointed!

[Beer of the Bass]

Having a bass head and cab with Speakons only, and a couple of guitar combos wouldn't pose too many problems in that respect though, unless the clients were really ingeniously stupid.

[warwickhunt]

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1329681798' post='1545910']
Having a bass head and cab with Speakons only, and a couple of guitar combos wouldn't pose too many problems in that respect though, unless the clients were really ingeniously stupid.
[/quote]

Good point... until they start connecting several up! LOL

[eude]

[quote name='warwickhunt' timestamp='1329681539' post='1545898']
Your mate needs to take into consideration that a lot of folks using rehearsal rooms are complete fcukwits when it comes to using gear! Not all but you'd be amazed.

Reliability and ease of use are paramount; my mate runs a rehearsal studio and he had LOADS of grief when he bought cheap cr4p the first time round and it took no time for the gear to die/get wrecked. Our own personal gear might get used a couple times a week (more if you use it in the house) and gets used by someone who knows how it works; rehearsal rooms can have gear running 12 hrs a day, 7 days a week and being used by folks who don't have the foggiest idea about input gain never mind ohmage issues (more in a second). As such I'd personally be looking at Peavey gear as it has a proven track record (old Trace gear stands up to abuse but then you are talking used). Also, though they may not be everyone's cup of tea I'd suggest combos rather than separates; reason being that I've known bands swap cabs around and plug multiple cabs in using all sorts of cr4ppy guitar leads and it is all too easy to have a bassist grab a bass amp and plug it into a guitar 4x12 (using some totally inappropriate cable) and before you know it you have a blown 'guitar' cab or worse if they stick a couple of 4 ohm cabs on an amp that operates at min 4 ohms and you have a fried amp (bonus of some of the Peavey gear is that it is safe down to 2 ohms... though you don't tell your rehearsal space customers that ).

Not trying to put him off but he needs to assume that everyone is an idiot... then he won't be disappointed!
[/quote]

I hear you mate.
There's no availability of any of the big Peavey combos anywhere in the UK, that I can find anyway.
We already tried to order them through the shop my mate wants to buy through, who are a Peavey dealer and the Tour Range of combos aren't being made anymore = balls.
The only combos powerful enough that are readily available are the Marshall and the Ashdown MAG, the Marshall being a bit of an unknown entity and the Ashdown MAG not having the greatest rep, although I'd be confident it would be robust as hell.

Assuming I can convince my pal to buy from Thomann...
I'm really liking the idea of the MB200 and 1x15 4 Ohm cab, solid and light.
The MB200 is very simple to operate and will have all kinds of protections to prevent frying the digital amp section.
All that and the fact my pal could buy three set ups within budget keeping one as a backup.

That sound like a good idea?...

I'm fairly confident that the location will weed out some of the total w***bags though
Eude

[warwickhunt]

I have to confess that the GK stuff looks a bargain and my past experiences are that they are robust... result!

[eude]

[quote name='warwickhunt' timestamp='1329684634' post='1545970']
I have to confess that the GK stuff looks a bargain and my past experiences are that they are robust... result!
[/quote]

Yup, and that MB200 head is getting silly good reviews.
Job done I reckon...

Eude

[dannybuoy]

[quote name='eude' timestamp='1329681364' post='1545892']
Sh*t Off!
I've just found this >> [url="http://www.thomann.de/gb/gallien_krueger_mb_200_bundle.htm"]http://www.thomann.d..._200_bundle.htm[/url]
At that cost he could get 3, leaving 1 as a back up...

Eude
[/quote]

Sod that shop in Edingburgh, get these GK amps! 200W into a 4-ohm speaker will be plenty loud enough for a small rehearsal room, and this is quality gear. Only problem is the amps are so small they could be easily pinched.

[jjay69]

Well all i can say is the Behringers at our place have always been reliable and when plugged into the Marshall 4x12 there they sound great to me. If i forget to take my MB LMK along im not bothered as long as the BX is there, in fact i usually choose it over the big ol Marshall valve amp thats there too. Maybe it's me but i think it works really well for the rock sound and i prefer it to valve sounds anyway.

[eude]

[quote name='dannybuoy' timestamp='1329684918' post='1545979']
Sod that shop in Edingburgh, get these GK amps! 200W into a 4-ohm speaker will be plenty loud enough for a small rehearsal room, and this is quality gear. Only problem is the amps are so small they could be easily pinched.
[/quote]

Oh, I hadn't thought about that.
I'm sure there'll be a way of dealing with that though, credit or debit card details to confirm a booking perhaps?...

Eude

[JTUK]

I would agree that you need to dumb down gear..so that means a bass combo putting out at 8 ohms....no ext cabs. That will help save the speaker when people flatten the dials.
No seperates by choice and I'd work on the basis that the amp provided will do if the user hasn't got his own...but I wouldn't put a great deal of money in it.

A studio round here has had to replace 3 P.A's ... and this is not a rough area..just people obviously don't know much about kit.and break it.
Good knows what they do to it as it should only handle vox.. but there you go.

[eude]

I'm thinking the credit card details on booking is looking like a VERY good idea...

[JTUK]

Good idea in theory but not so much in practice, IMO.
In reality, you'll just have to ban anyone who can't be trusted, but getting money out of some people
for cancellations is silly season.

It will come down to how picky you can be with 'clients' but no one round here will want to be bothered with giving CC details.
£10 ph is affordable for benefit users, but CC's would be a step too far.

Can you afford to turn them away if they don't have this..??

BUt sure, things like mics and cables need to be itemised after every session but you'll still 'loose' stuff or get it damaged

[eude]

Not sure what the plans are. Like I said, I'm just trying to help a mate out here with speccing the kit out.
I do think he's going to be operating things in a slightly "classier" manner though, as it's going to be used as a teaching facility for local schools, youth groups too.
I'll have all the info when it's done though.
Just a shame I'm all the way down here in London, I won't even be able to make the opening doo

Eude

[eude]

Morning, thank you for all your help guys!
I've relayed all my (your) thoughts to my pal, so we'll see what happens.
If he's willing to go secondhand though, I reckon that would be the best bet, there's a couple of Ashdown ABM 1x15 combos on here at the moment which would be ideal, and there's that Trace setup I could get hold of too.
Failing that, I reckon that little GK setup would be magic, with a simple bike lock setup to keep the amp attached to the cab, to stop it getting stolen...

Cheers BassChat!
Eude

[jjay69]

Just adding a couple of thoughts from this bassists point of view.

1. Im very dissapointed if i walk into a rehearsal room and find a bass combo, no matter how good it might be. From experience i've found them underpowered, farty and usually been hammered and give the impression of a cut corners approach where the bassist hasn't been considered.

2. Im equally dissapointed to find only 15"speakers available, too boomy and no clarity, 10's or 12's are much more flexible imo.

I have gone out of my way to convince the whole band to avoid rehearsal rooms with gear like this and rehearse at a place where i know i can get a half decent sound. Based on this crude bit of research i would say picking the right gear can have a big effect on the success or failure of your venture. Whereas how fancy the studio is makes no difference to me at all.

Though one thing i think all rooms should have is a blackboard or whiteboard for jotting notes down or explaining parts to the guys in more complex songs.

[eude]

[quote name='jjay69' timestamp='1329733762' post='1546393']
Just adding a couple of thoughts from this bassists point of view.

1. Im very dissapointed if i walk into a rehearsal room and find a bass combo, no matter how good it might be. From experience i've found them underpowered, farty and usually been hammered and give the impression of a cut corners approach where the bassist hasn't been considered.

2. Im equally dissapointed to find only 15"speakers available, too boomy and no clarity, 10's or 12's are much more flexible imo.

I have gone out of my way to convince the whole band to avoid rehearsal rooms with gear like this and rehearse at a place where i know i can get a half decent sound. Based on this crude bit of research i would say picking the right gear can have a big effect on the success or failure of your venture. Whereas how fancy the studio is makes no difference to me at all.

Though one thing i think all rooms should have is a blackboard or whiteboard for jotting notes down or explaining parts to the guys in more complex songs.
[/quote]

Noted dude.
I know what you mean, crap kit can make or break a studio, at least if it wants to attract the right kind of customer.
I also appreciate what you mean about finding a crappy combo.
My experience of almost all rehearsal studios has been crap bass gear though, combo, 8x10 fridge, never ever the kind of gear I would choose to use.
Finding a battered old Trace 1x15 combo is equally crap to a solid state ampeg head and fridge.
Since the advent of Micro Bass Heads I would always at least take along my own head.

The best compromise is quality kit that doesn't cost the earth.

I think a GK microhead and 1x15 + horn cab is a good compromise, especially as my pal could buy in a spare too.
Would that kit turn you off too? I'd be quite chuffed to find something like that...

Eude

[jjay69]

[quote]I think a GK microhead and 1x15 + horn cab is a good compromise, especially as my pal could buy in a spare too.
Would that kit turn you off too? I'd be quite chuffed to find something like that...
[/quote]

Possibly not, a lot of modern gear is a lot better than it used to be, im not a fan of 15's but the newer ones with horns are greatly improved than the old skool ones, so chances are i'd be ok. In other words it's a matter of taste. I think years of playing with a VERY loud drummer who always brings his own kit means a right power struggle so if the gear can't cope it's quite off putting.

End of the day if the gear has power and is modern enough and flexible enough, ie not one particular sound type then i think most guys would be happy enough. Though yes with amps getting smaller the majority would still bring their own, so cab choice is important.

[JTUK]

[quote name='eude' timestamp='1329689092' post='1546081']
Not sure what the plans are. Like I said, I'm just trying to help a mate out here with speccing the kit out.
I do think he's going to be operating things in a slightly "classier" manner though, as it's going to be used as a teaching facility for local schools, youth groups too.
I'll have all the info when it's done though.
Just a shame I'm all the way down here in London, I won't even be able to make the opening doo

Eude
[/quote]

The problems I quoted are all from that sort of establishment, which is basically a teaching school turning over their rooms for rehearsals...
and he has been through 3 P.A's in one room along.

I can quite see the desire to step up, but he has learnt to run from the lowest common denominator.
If you put new kit in there..I'd expect to have to pay a hire charge for that kit over and above the hourly rate... and I can't see the premium being worth it..to me, for the type of kit you'll put in.

Boomproof TE's PV's etc would be my choice.
People can always bring their own kit if they don't like it.

After all..we all have lightweight rigs these days...

[electric nate]

I actually work in a rehearsal studio. We use Line6 amps for guitar and bass. The guitar stuff I'm not enormously keen on but it'll do for rehearsals. However, the bass amps are brilliant from the studio's perspective. The ones we have are Lowdown LD300 pro's. They're stupidly reliable. I've been here over a year, never seen an issue with one yet, and they get used and abused 7 days a week. We get the odd person that whinges about them but usually they just haven't bothered to learn how the amp works, or they need to reign in their expectations and come to terms with the fact that they're not playing Wembley stadium or recording at Abbey Road and the amps here were chosen to be practical for rehearsal purposes. And practical they are indeed. Easy to lug about, and they provide plenty of power and a variety of tones. They're never going to sound just like an SVT rig or a Bassman or whatever else, but they'll get you in the right ballpark which is enough for a rehearsal session.

Anyway, the LD300pro is now out of production and has been replaced by the LD400pro which are available here [url="http://www.gak.co.uk/en/line-6-lowdown-ld-400-pro/18694"]http://www.gak.co.uk/en/line-6-lowdown-ld-400-pro/18694[/url] for £350! Not that i'm promoting that particular online retailer, they were just the cheapest price I found in 2 minutes of googling.

[eude]

[quote name='electric nate' timestamp='1330007087' post='1551302']
I actually work in a rehearsal studio. We use Line6 amps for guitar and bass. The guitar stuff I'm not enormously keen on but it'll do for rehearsals. However, the bass amps are brilliant from the studio's perspective. The ones we have are Lowdown LD300 pro's. They're stupidly reliable. I've been here over a year, never seen an issue with one yet, and they get used and abused 7 days a week. We get the odd person that whinges about them but usually they just haven't bothered to learn how the amp works, or they need to reign in their expectations and come to terms with the fact that they're not playing Wembley stadium or recording at Abbey Road and the amps here were chosen to be practical for rehearsal purposes. And practical they are indeed. Easy to lug about, and they provide plenty of power and a variety of tones. They're never going to sound just like an SVT rig or a Bassman or whatever else, but they'll get you in the right ballpark which is enough for a rehearsal session.

Anyway, the LD300pro is now out of production and has been replaced by the LD400pro which are available here [url="http://www.gak.co.uk/en/line-6-lowdown-ld-400-pro/18694"]http://www.gak.co.uk...d-400-pro/18694[/url] for £350! Not that i'm promoting that particular online retailer, they were just the cheapest price I found in 2 minutes of googling.
[/quote]

Thanks for that man.
My only experience of the LD series is the wee 1x10 combo, which isn't bad at all (although my Promethean whipes the floor with it )
Anyway, my pal is going to pull the trigger on the GK head and cab setup, but should anything go wrong with the order, or if there's stock issues, I'll make sure he sees that combo, a hell of a lot of gear for the money!

Eude

[jacko]

Just wondering why a 'rehearsal studio' would need a 100 watt guitar amp. The loudest guitarist in my band has a 30 watt combo for stage use and the other one uses a 16 watt tiny terror - both plenty loud enough for any pub gig so way over the top for a studio.

That said, until recently I've been lugging my stage rig to rehearsals at our normal studio but I've just invested in an Eden E210C - 350watts 2X10 .

If you want an idea of what not to put in a rehearsal room, check out the sub station in rosyth. Loads of tired second or third hand crap in there to avoid.

[Beer of the Bass]

[quote name='jacko' timestamp='1330027694' post='1551772']
Just wondering why a 'rehearsal studio' would need a 100 watt guitar amp. The loudest guitarist in my band has a 30 watt combo for stage use and the other one uses a 16 watt tiny terror - both plenty loud enough for any pub gig so way over the top for a studio.
[/quote]

I know the solid-state versus valve loudness thing has been done to death on here, but 100 watts is not outrageous for a solid-state guitar amp IMO, especially if clean sounds are needed. I gig with a 15 watt valve combo on guitar, and I've played through solid-state amps of 50 watts or more that can't match the usable loudness available from mine. I would much rather walk into a rehearsal studio and see almost any 15-30 watt valve combo than the usual Marshall MG or knackered Peavey Bandit (the exception being the Sessionette in one place we use, which is just a nice sounding amp regardless of what it uses). I can get the idea that rehearsal studios want their gear to be low-maintenance though.

Edited February 24, 2012 by Beer of the Bass

[eude]

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1330072098' post='1552152']
I know the solid-state versus valve loudness thing has been done to death on here, but 100 watts is not outrageous for a solid-state guitar amp IMO, especially if clean sounds are needed. I gig with a 15 watt valve combo on guitar, and I've played through solid-state amps of 50 watts or more that can't match the usable loudness available from mine. I would much rather walk into a rehearsal studio and see almost any 15-30 watt valve combo than the usual Marshall MG or knackered Peavey Bandit (the exception being the Sessionette in one place we use, which is just a nice sounding amp regardless of what it uses). I can get the idea that rehearsal studios want their gear to be low-maintenance though.
[/quote]

[quote name='jacko' timestamp='1330027694' post='1551772']
Just wondering why a 'rehearsal studio' would need a 100 watt guitar amp. The loudest guitarist in my band has a 30 watt combo for stage use and the other one uses a 16 watt tiny terror - both plenty loud enough for any pub gig so way over the top for a studio.

That said, until recently I've been lugging my stage rig to rehearsals at our normal studio but I've just invested in an Eden E210C - 350watts 2X10 .

If you want an idea of what not to put in a rehearsal room, check out the sub station in rosyth. Loads of tired second or third hand crap in there to avoid.
[/quote]

My pal is putting in a couple of solid state Peaveys, 112 Bandits I think, which are 100W, but he's also putting in a few 50W valve jobbies too, a Marshall, a Vox and I think a Fender.
I know the Peaveys are probably overkill, but he'd pulled the trigger on them before we talked about it as it was such a cracking deal.
The advice about bringing in amp stands has been taken though, so that should help keep levels down a bit

Substation in Rosyth? Yup been a there a few times. The rehearsal gear was awful, it felt like rehearsing in the early 80s with tired gear from the 70s.
Total Crap.
The recording studio they have there is very nice though...

Eude

[magee]

[size=4]Eude,
if you manage to convince your mate that second hand is acceptable[color=#000000], then I am changing round my set up and probably looking to shift my rig: it's a 300W Ashdown ABM head and a Yamaha 2x10 (BBT210), a great, solid, v loud 4 Ohm cab with a tweeter. [/color]

[color=#000000]If he wants that set up for £320 then I can deliver it to him (I'm in Glasgow). [/color]

[color=#000000]If not, I hope he finds what he's looking for. I might be in touch to use the place - I've promised my Edinburgh-based dad (a guitar beginner) that the brother and I will take him to a rehearsal room one day and make lots of noise, so this could be just the place. [/color]

[color=#000000]Matthew[/color][/size]

Edited February 24, 2012 by magee

[eude]

[quote name='magee' timestamp='1330077115' post='1552244']
[size=4]Eude,
if you manage to convince your mate that second hand is acceptable[color=#000000], then I am changing round my set up and probably looking to shift my rig: it's a 300W Ashdown ABM head and a Yamaha 2x10 (BBT210), a great, solid, v loud 4 Ohm cab with a tweeter. [/color]

[color=#000000]If he wants that set up for £320 then I can deliver it to him (I'm in Glasgow). [/color]

[color=#000000]If not, I hope he finds what he's looking for. I might be in touch to use the place - I've promised my Edinburgh-based dad (a guitar beginner) that the brother and I will take him to a rehearsal room one day and make lots of noise, so this could be just the place. [/color]

[color=#000000]Matthew[/color][/size]
[/quote]

Cheers man.
I think he's already pulled the trigger on the GK stuff now, too good an offer to miss out on, 3 year warranty from Thomann too!

It's going to be a cracking rehearsal space from I can see, just wish I wasn't so bloomin' far away!

Eude