underrated players

[stef030]

today I was tidying up my music,putting stuff on I tunes ect
as I was going along was listening to stuff I had not listened to for ages,
I realised that players like


the magnificent alan thomson(j martyn ect)
the superb del palmer( kate bush) just seem to be so
underated

what do you think?


cheers
stef

[lxxwj]

Murdoc Nicholls. Not the best/most interesting bassist by far, but he had a nice use of the occasional
dirt effect and some cool basslines, as well as being the fourth member of Muse. Cool guy.

Another underrated player (in my opinion) is John Davis of Nerve. Crazy effects there, but
overshadowed by Jojo Mayer on drums most of the time.

Edited February 28, 2012 by lxxwj

[pietruszka]

Mark White from the Spin Doctors is great and often over looked I find. Horace Panter from the Specials is excellent to, not to mention whoever plays for Elvis Costello, he picks some cracking bass players.




Dan

[Judo Chop]

John Power when he was in the La's, nothing fancy in his playing but it fit every song perfectly

[Doddy]

[quote name='lxxwj' timestamp='1330465517' post='1558048']
Another underrated player (in my opinion) is John Davis of Nerve. Crazy effects there,
[/quote]
John Davis is cool. Another guy doing some crazy effects stuff is Tim Lefebvre...he never seems to
get enough credit on here.

[quote name='pietruszka' timestamp='1330468755' post='1558121']
Mark White from the Spin Doctors is great and often over looked I find.
[/quote]
Mark White has the most ridiculous left hand technique (he's left handed-so I mean his picking hand).He's
got some crazy chops.....I love the Spin Doctors.

I'm just listening to some Phish right now-Mike Gordon plays some really nice stuff.

I very rarely see anyone mention Reed Mathis from Jacob Fred Jazz Odyssey.He's a really cool player
on both electric and upright. The band is great too..kind of in a similar vein to Medeski,Martin and Wood-Chris Wood
is ace too.

[simon1964]

[quote name='pietruszka' timestamp='1330468755' post='1558121']
not to mention whoever plays for Elvis Costello, he picks some cracking bass players.
[/quote]

The early stuff was Bruce Thomas, which is an excellent shout!

Edited February 29, 2012 by simon1964

[paul_5]

Under-rated players? Erm, most of us on here?

[RhysP]

John Siegler (with Todd Rundgrens Utopia before Kasim Sulton).

[Lozz196]

Duff McKagan - immersed in a band with Axl Rose & Slash, it`s so easy (ker-ching) to underestimate his worth to the band, and his bass-playing ability. Great runs, and a good sense of melody.

[bartelby]

[quote name='lxxwj' timestamp='1330465517' post='1558048']
Murdoc Nicholls. Not the best/most interesting bassist by far, but he had a nice use of the occasional
dirt effect and some cool basslines, as well as being the fourth member of Muse. Cool guy.
[/quote]

His stuff in The Sensless Things is better than anything he's done since IMHO!

[neepheid]

I'd throw Billy Cox into the mix. Some of the stuff on First Rays of the New Rising Sun is very challenging indeed (to me anyway )

[paul_5]

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1330499392' post='1558300']
Duff McKagan - immersed in a band with Axl Rose & Slash, it`s so easy (ker-ching) to underestimate his worth to the band, and his bass-playing ability. Great runs, and a good sense of melody.
[/quote]
True dat. I transcribed some GnR lines for a student once, really surprised to learn just how good Duff's lines really are on "Appetite for Destruction". I shall be giving that one a spin later on today.

[TheGreek]

Roly Wynne, Bass Player with the Ozric Tentacles would get my vote - mixes Reggae/Dub style riffs wth some excellent Rock - a most underrated band all together I would say..

[jjay69]

I would have to say Mark Evans on the early AC/DC albums, no slapping, no tapping, no superfast runs, nuttin fancy, but great groove and use of very subtle note changes placed beautifully in some key moments. Of course he hadnt been playing very long at the time, all the more reason.

Oh and Nick Jameson and Craig MacGregor when they were in Foghat.

[thepurpleblob]

Everyone who is better than me... which is nearly everyone in percentage terms

It's more that a very few players soak up all the glory (Flea - I'm looking at you) often for no special reason.

[Bilbo]

I think that's the point. A lot of players who we deem to be 'underrated' (and most of those listed above) are not so much underrated as unremarkable. I get that everyone has their favourite bands, songs, cds etc and each player has their moment to shine but when we talk about people being underrated, there is an implication that they are in some way overlooked geniuses when they are simply journeymen bass players who can deliver a professional product with some level of creativity. The question for me is always 'what would this sound like with a different player'. Now Duff McKagan may have some merits but I can't hear much that couldn't be delivered by any one of 1,000,000 rock bass players from about 15 years of age onwards. Del Palmer is a quiet contributor to Ms. Bush's work but I hear nothing to get overly excited by. Could he be replaced? In a second. Take Jaco off the Heavy Weather cd and its a different album. Take Kasim Sulton off 'Bat Out Of Hell' and its the same album with a different bass player.

Competent and capable, yes. Underrated, probably not.

[Lozz196]

I think the term under-rated definitely comes into the creativity of the material. Whilst I agree that, for example, Duffs material isn`t particularly difficult to play, the lines he`s created blend well with the rest of the band, add to the songs well, and don`t detract from them - all probably more difficult than it sounds, considering the guitarists he worked with. Even with his choice of tone, it works with rather than against.

But, without paying particular attention to his work, it`s easy to overlook his contributions, due to the more obvious GNR members. Hence him being under-rated, for the job he did.

Many incredibly well known songs are even more incredibly simple to play. Many of The Beatles songs can be played by someone with only a scratching of guitar playing. That said, I still rate Lennon & McCartney.

[joeystrange]

I've always thought Krist Novoselic is really underrated. There are a lot of subtleties in his playing that you don't even hear until you hear solo'd bass tracks.

[4000]

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1330512984' post='1558520']
I think the term under-rated definitely comes into the creativity of the material. Whilst I agree that, for example, Duffs material isn`t particularly difficult to play, the lines he`s created blend well with the rest of the band, add to the songs well, and don`t detract from them - all probably more difficult than it sounds, considering the guitarists he worked with. Even with his choice of tone, it works with rather than against.

But, without paying particular attention to his work, it`s easy to overlook his contributions, due to the more obvious GNR members. Hence him being under-rated, for the job he did.

Many incredibly well known songs are even more incredibly simple to play. Many of The Beatles songs can be played by someone with only a scratching of guitar playing. That said, I still rate Lennon & McCartney.
[/quote]

I would tend to agree with this. I'd add that subtle differences in a player's note choice, style or tone can make a big difference to the material IMO.

FWIW I would suggest Leigh Gorman (Bow Wow Wow) in a heartbeat. Very few people seem to mention him and yet IMO he's a unique player. I've never heard anyone else like him, although occasionally it's pretty obvious Flea has heard him and has indeed been "swimming in the sound of Bow Wow Wow".

Edited February 29, 2012 by 4000

[RhysP]

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1330511016' post='1558454']
Take Jaco off the Heavy Weather cd and its a different album. Take Kasim Sulton off 'Bat Out Of Hell' and its the same album with a different bass player.
[/quote]

I think it's a bit unfair to use the example of Jaco as he was so exceptional. Take Jaco off ANYTHING he played on & it would change completely.

There are plenty of excellent electric jazz players I listen too - Matthew Garrison, Hadrien Feraud, Kai Eckhart, Etienne M'bappe etc. - that I personally would say are just as interchangeble as Kasim Sulton is in your "Bat out of Hell" example.

I would also argue that Sieglers playing is so unusual that if Kasim Sulton had been on the first two Utopia albums they too, like your Jaco-less "Heavy Weather", would have been completely different albums.

[leftyhook]

Graham Maby from Joe Jackson band. Geraldine and John is a fine example of his melody driven work.

As mentioned above, the brilliant Bruce Thomas from Elvis C.

[scalpy]

+1 to Billy Cox and Noel Redding too, and Jimi was no slouch either, evidenced by All Along the Watchtower, as if the guitar playing wasn't enough!

Could I nominate Johnny Colt as well from the Black Crowes? Can't have a tight but loose band without a tight but loose bass player!

[4000]

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1330511016' post='1558454']
I think that's the point. A lot of players who we deem to be 'underrated' (and most of those listed above) are not so much underrated as unremarkable. I get that everyone has their favourite bands, songs, cds etc and each player has their moment to shine but when we talk about people being underrated, there is an implication that they are in some way overlooked geniuses when they are simply journeymen bass players who can deliver a professional product with some level of creativity. The question for me is always 'what would this sound like with a different player'. Now Duff McKagan may have some merits but I can't hear much that couldn't be delivered by any one of 1,000,000 rock bass players from about 15 years of age onwards. Del Palmer is a quiet contributor to Ms. Bush's work but I hear nothing to get overly excited by. Could he be replaced? In a second. Take Jaco off the Heavy Weather cd and its a different album. Take Kasim Sulton off 'Bat Out Of Hell' and its the same album with a different bass player.

Competent and capable, yes. Underrated, probably not.
[/quote]

Surely underrated just means that they are better players or contribute more to the music (or both) than they are generally given credit for? That doesn't imply that they're necessarily "overlooked geniuses" at all; I think that's reading far too much into it.

FWIW I also think Duff (to my ears) is a far more recognisable player than Kasim Sulton and thus contributes far more to his band's sound; I'll add that I do own BOOH and don't own any GnR whatsoever (never liked them as a band) so wouldn't consider myself biased.

Edited March 1, 2012 by 4000

[Austin7]

[quote name='scalpy' timestamp='1330540075' post='1559136']
+1 to Billy Cox and Noel Redding too, and Jimi was no slouch either, evidenced by All Along the Watchtower, as if the guitar playing wasn't enough!

Could I nominate Johnny Colt as well from the Black Crowes? Can't have a tight but loose band without a tight but loose bass player!
[/quote]

I was planning on mentioning Noel Redding, but then of course I saw your post. Some good points. In Noel's case, I'd certainly say he tends to get too harshly criticized, IMO. I keep hearing stories that the only reason he was in the Experience is because of his hair. His hair may have been a factor in helping him get hired. However, my question would be, did Hendrix keep Redding as bassist for 3 years just because he liked his hair so much? Another misconception is that Hendrix overdubbed much of the bass. On "Electric Ladyland" Hendrix did play on all but 5 of the songs. However, Noel played on all the two first albums. He can also be heard in various other places such as on the excellent Winterland album which was finally released last year. Possibly the biggest misconception is that Redding was a frustrated guitarist who felt tortured having to play bass. If that was so, why did he play bass on so many albums after the Experience and Fat Mattress broke up? This involved several obscure bands (with the exception of Mountain and possibly Randy California's Kapt Kopter band in which Noel played bass under an alias,) but that is beside the point.

Edited March 1, 2012 by Austin7

[spinynorman]

Here's two tracks that define "under-rated bass player" for me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qz47XGsi2e0


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tq3NwCHm-4U