Light stuff

[thepurpleblob]

I'm fed up of carrying mega-heavy cabs about, have some surplus cash and want to make an investment. However - I'm confused. Anyway... current set up...

I play in a loud 6-piece covers band -the PA is used only for the keys and the vocals. I currently use either an Ashdown ABM-500 plus a 4x10 plus a 2x10 - which is probably a tad more than I need. Or a Trace Elliott 300W GP7 15 inch combo with another 15 inch extension cab. I wouldn't want much less volume than the latter.

Lots and lots of people seem to use very small cabs (single 12s and such) but I suspect they are playing through the PA so that won't do. I spoke to Barefaced a while back and they recommended a Super Twelve (2x12 I think) along with the ABM-500. It would be nice if that's true but I'm really nervous about going from (effectively) 6x10 or 2x15 to 2x12. Will it work?

Anyway, I'd appreciate any opinions and/or alternatives. Even better if anybody is selling anything. Money isn't exactly no object but I only want to do it once

[JTUK]

Not a fan of 12's over 10's myself and I have both. So I would expect a downgrade from 6x10's into 2x12.
But if you can live with a 1x15..I'd expect a decent 2x12 to walk all over that.

Plus..with respect, Ashdowns aren't the higher end of cabs either...ditto TE.

Having said that, if it is a sound you have liked, then it works for you.

Look at it this way...accept that this may be a downgrade and a compromise and the gain is weight, so if the new cab works as well for you, then that is another bonus.

[Lozz196]

I`ve been very impressed with my Schroeder 21012 (2x10 & 1x12 in the same cab). There are a couple of Schroeders up for grabs on here at present, a 21015 and a 410. My cab weighs in at about 50lbs/22kg.

Scroeders sound rather poor at quiet volumes, but at band levels, they are great. They do have a mid-bump to them, but if not liked, well that`s what eq is for. This does of course really help with the sound in the mix. No matter where I stand on stage 9aside from behind it) it sounds the same, the projection of sound is amazing. This cab is probably - scratch that, definitley - my fave cab I`ve ever had, and I was very impressed with the Barefaced Compact/Midget set-up I had.

When I got it, my thoughts were as per JTUK, that it may be a compromise over what I wnated on sound, compared to what I needed, which was lightweight. I`m glad to say it was no compromise at all - I gained in every aspect. I paid £500 for it 2nd hand, but if it were stolen/broken, I`d buy a new one.

[brensabre79]

I was nervous about the change from 4x10s to 2x12. I thought it would never work, despite the reassurances here. I went to Barefaced because of the 30 day return policy and Alex also recommended the Super Twelve to me. The Super Twelve cabs are highly sensitive and incredibly loud - put it this way your 500w Ashdown head will not do it any harm whatsoever! I replaced my trusty and extremely loud SWR Goliath 4x10 with upgraded drivers (1200W RMS handling - not that it means much) with a Super 12 T and I have not looked back (I also have not had my back looked at since ). I recommended this cab to a number of people and not one of them has regretted the upgrade.

If you are concerned that a 2x12 won't be quite enough oomph then you could go for one of their bigger cabs.
But personally I doubt you'll need it. I barely get my GB Shuttle 6 past 9 o'clock on the master volume with my function band, even then all I hear is complaints that I'm too loud and the poor guitarists feeble Marshall 4x12 cannot keep up. diddums.

Also, do not make the mistake of assuming all 2x12s (or 4x10s or 1x15s) are the same!

[Lozz196]

Very good point from brensabre79. I`ve previously used a Marshall 410 & Peavey 210 stack, Marshall 412, Ampeg 410 & 210 stack, and my Schroeder easily matches the volume of these. Am using a different amp - tho same power - so can`t comment on depth of sound, as my sound has changed a fair bit, but volume - no worries.

[thepurpleblob]

Any thoughts on MarkBass? They seem mountainously expensive - yet loads of people have them.

[Muzz]

I had a Markbass 410HR for a while (having come down from an Ampeg 810 fridge via a Roland D-Bass 2x15 stack) and I liked it a lot, but I prefer my Schroeder 1515L - the smallest and lightest of the lot, and easily as loud as any. As Lozz says, they have a distinct voice and don't sound great at low volumes, but in the band context, it's great. 38lbs, one hand carry, and my RH450 doesn't go near half volume before the rest of the band complain.

I have to add that my 410HR was nicked, so I might still have it if it wasn't for that, and I guess I'd still be happy.

Edited March 1, 2012 by Muzz

[thepurpleblob]

I've actually never heard of Schroeder... off to investigate.

Playing quietly is a non-issue. We have a drummer who is unaware that quiet exists....

[Lozz196]

[quote name='thepurpleblob' timestamp='1330604994' post='1560135']
Any thoughts on MarkBass? They seem mountainously expensive - yet loads of people have them.
[/quote]

No experience using them, but almost every time I see a band play and like how the bassists sound is clear, audible and good, it`s a little Markbass combo/stack in the corner.

[Paul S]

I've had a BF Compact for a while now and recently added a Midget. Amp is a TC Classic 450 which is to my ears about as loud as my old Trace Elliot 300W head. I play in two bands - one is a light pop-rock thing, the other a heavy classic rock band. Same drummer in both and he is loud. PA is used for vocals or very occasionally guitars go through too, never bass. Either cab on its own is plenty loud enough with the amp on or below half (4/10), just a different shape to the sound. Both together is perfect balance of sound and usually volume 3/10. I can't imagine a scenario where this combination isn't going to be more than loud enough - if it isn't then it will be going through the pa anyway. From now on I will be using the Midget for rehearsing - no-one in either band can believe how loud or good it sounds! not a hint of farting despite favouriing a bass-heavy setting. Both cabs for gigs.

Compact is 12kg, Midget is 9kg. Classic 450 head about 3kg. For me the ultimate rig in terms of tone, portability and versatility.

[thepurpleblob]

[quote name='Paul S' timestamp='1330606498' post='1560184']
I've had a BF Compact for a while now and recently added a Midget. Amp is a TC Classic 450 which is to my ears about as loud as my old Trace Elliot 300W head. I play in two bands - one is a light pop-rock thing, the other a heavy classic rock band. Same drummer in both and he is loud. PA is used for vocals or very occasionally guitars go through too, never bass. Either cab on its own is plenty loud enough with the amp on or below half (4/10), just a different shape to the sound. Both together is perfect balance of sound and usually volume 3/10. I can't imagine a scenario where this combination isn't going to be more than loud enough - if it isn't then it will be going through the pa anyway. From now on I will be using the Midget for rehearsing - no-one in either band can believe how loud or good it sounds! not a hint of farting despite favouriing a bass-heavy setting. Both cabs for gigs.

Compact is 12kg, Midget is 9kg. Classic 450 head about 3kg. For me the ultimate rig in terms of tone, portability and versatility.
[/quote]

Sorry - 'scuse my ignorance - I we talking about the Bill Fitzmaurice "build it yourself" cabs?

Have chinned the guy selling the Schroeder 1x15 + 2x10 which sounds quite intriguing. Next exactly weightless at 26Kg but do-able I think.

Edited March 1, 2012 by thepurpleblob

[alexclaber]

There's no point us recommending cabs that won't do the job, we'd just end up losing a bunch on money on shipping when they get returned after a month! Other customers will confirm that they've come to us asking for cab X and we've told them it won't do what they want and we'll only sell them cab Y or nothing. A Super Twelve will play louder and fatter than your TE 15" combo plus extension 1x15" stack and will match your 2x10" plus 4x10" stack in those respects but with more punch.

Volume displacement is what matters - you move air with cone area multiplied by cone excursion. Our cabs have much more cone excursion so they move more air with less cone area: [url="http://barefacedbass.com/technical-information/Volume-displacement.htm"]http://barefacedbass.com/technical-information/Volume-displacement.htm[/url]

[brensabre79]

[quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1330604805' post='1560124']
Very good point from brensabre79. I`ve previously used a Marshall 410 & Peavey 210 stack, Marshall 412, Ampeg 410 & 210 stack, and my Schroeder easily matches the volume of these. Am using a different amp - tho same power - so can`t comment on depth of sound, as my sound has changed a fair bit, but volume - no worries.
[/quote]
I'm surprised at you Lozz, for it was you who convinced me to try Barefaced! And how right you were!

I was previously looking at a Schroeder (before you enlightened me) and had lengthy conversations with Jorg, but to be honest the 'distinct voicing' and the fact that they are US made put me off a little (returns/repairs...). Chatting to someone who has tried both Schroeder and Barefaced 2x12s there were concerns raised that the Mid hump really just serves to give the illusion that the cab is much louder than it is and that the LF handling isn't that great. So fine if you like a middy sound, but if you want anyhting else your EQ has to work quite hard to 'uncolour' the cab. I'd also heard on here that there were some issues with QC these days and that the older ones with the angled speaker were the better ones... I don't know how much truth there is in that though to be fair.

I know from speaking to Alex that the Super12 has a virtually flat frequency response due to the way the two speakers couple, so if I want a mid hump I can use my amp to boost. But if i don't i don't have to do anything - as it is I run my amp flat through my Barefaced.

I tried some Markbass stuff around the same time I was looking and I thought that they were a bit weak in the low frequencies too. Which was a shame as I have some MB kit that I really like. Although they were 10"s, the same as my SWR, they did not pack the same punch at all!

[thepurpleblob]

[quote name='alexclaber' timestamp='1330607734' post='1560236']
There's no point us recommending cabs that won't do the job, we'd just end up losing a bunch on money on shipping when they get returned after a month! Other customers will confirm that they've come to us asking for cab X and we've told them it won't do what they want and we'll only sell them cab Y or nothing. A Super Twelve will play louder and fatter than your TE 15" combo plus extension 1x15" stack and will match your 2x10" plus 4x10" stack in those respects but with more punch.

Volume displacement is what matters - you move air with cone area multiplied by cone excursion. Our cabs have much more cone excursion so they move more air with less cone area: [url="http://barefacedbass.com/technical-information/Volume-displacement.htm"]http://barefacedbass...isplacement.htm[/url]
[/quote]

Hi Alex,

I don't doubt you for a moment... but it's a substantial investment and I need to look at the options.

Are your cabs off the shelf or is there a waiting time?

[brensabre79]

[quote name='thepurpleblob' timestamp='1330607176' post='1560213']
Have chinned the guy selling the Schroeder 1x15 + 2x10
[/quote]
Thats just charming, if you wanted to try his cabs you only had to ask

[thepurpleblob]

[quote name='brensabre79' timestamp='1330608024' post='1560244']
Thats just charming, if you wanted to try his cabs you only had to ask
[/quote]

Merely a figure of speech

Edited March 1, 2012 by thepurpleblob

[alexclaber]

[quote name='thepurpleblob' timestamp='1330607924' post='1560243']I don't doubt you for a moment... but it's a substantial investment and I need to look at the options.

Are your cabs off the shelf or is there a waiting time?[/quote]

You did doubt me, that's what your first post was saying! No need to be nervous about going from 6x10" or 2x15" to 2x12", as you'd actually be going from ~650cc or ~550cc to 660cc volume displacement in the case of those particular cabs. There's about a month's wait at the moment.

[bigjohn]

One has to look no further than a Barefaced cab.

I used to have a Schroeder 1212L, it was nice, but did have a peculiarity that sometimes needed taming. That was a replacement for two 2x10 Acme Low Bs. I found this 2x12 to be much louder (actually much easier to make loud) than the 2x2x10.

My Barefaced (15+8) Is even more impressive. Flat response and very efficient. And light. What's not to like?

If it's the price that bothers you... I'd say wait and try to snap one up in the FS section, but they just don't come up there. Which says it's own thing.

[Lozz196]

[quote name='brensabre79' timestamp='1330607806' post='1560237']
I'm surprised at you Lozz, for it was you who convinced me to try Barefaced! And how right you were!
[/quote]

Yes, I had to sell my Barefaced cabs, as ran into a bit of temporary financial difficulties, and then the chance of the Schroeder came along, when I`d sorted that. Thought would give it a go, and have been very happy. For me, it edges things for the punk band I`m in, and is equal to the Barefaced for my other band, so that`s why it gets my vote. I`d never knock Barefaced cabs though - fantastic cabs, I couldn`t see anyone being less than ecstatic with one of them.

[bigjohn]

The Schroeder is an excellent choice for punk.

[thepurpleblob]

[quote name='alexclaber' timestamp='1330609798' post='1560299']
You did doubt me, that's what your first post was saying! No need to be nervous about going from 6x10" or 2x15" to 2x12", as you'd actually be going from ~650cc or ~550cc to 660cc volume displacement in the case of those particular cabs. There's about a month's wait at the moment.
[/quote]

I am very encouraged by your faith in your own product. However, my old dad used to say "never accept advise from someone who will profit by you taking it". There's certainly no arguing that Barefaced users are really impressed and happy with their cabs.

Is there any point asking for a BassChat discount??

Edited March 1, 2012 by thepurpleblob

[JTUK]

[quote name='thepurpleblob' timestamp='1330628243' post='1560754']
my old dad used to say "never accept advise from someone who will profit by you taking it". [/quote]

Quote of the day.. and not a bad one, I'll remember that.

[Merton]

[quote name='thepurpleblob' timestamp='1330628243' post='1560754']


I am very encouraged by your faith in your own product. However, my old dad used to say "never accept advise from someone who will profit by you taking it".
[/quote]
If Alex was saying "All other cabs are sh1t, buy this it's awesome" then I can understand your viewpoint, but fact is he will offer his advice for the best cab in his range to suit your needs, nothing more. He could have sold you a Big Twin T which is far more expensive, but he disn't, he is suggesting what he thinks is best for you

FWIW I play in a loud function band and run a Super12T and absolutely love it. Small and light but a massive massive sound when needed. I have drowned out the entire band going through the PA with just a 200W amp and the S12, it's monstrous.

Edited March 1, 2012 by Merton

[thepurpleblob]

This seems to be getting slightly out of hand... I've read a lot about the Barefaced cabs and nobody has a bad word. I just wanted to get a second opinion from people who actually go out and gig the things. I'm not trying to offend Alex in case anybody thinks I am. He's been very helpful. But... it's a big slice of wedge to put out without a bit of due diligence.

[gjones]

[quote name='thepurpleblob' timestamp='1330628243' post='1560754']
Is there any point asking for a BassChat discount??
[/quote]

If you don't ask you don't get

I have a hankering for a barefaced cab too as my first gig with my BC2x12 and my ABM 500 in a standing room only bar on Sunday wasn't exactly a resounding success. I lost the battle with a very loud drummer and guitarist.