Advice on amp/combo/cab extentsion

[pburrows]

Hi guys. I need some advice here as I'm getting lost in some of the technical detail regarding Ohms, watts and overall volume!

I recently did my first gig in a pub using my Ashdown MAG C410 T 300 Bass Combo. It just didn't seem loud enough and was distorting a bit.

Am I correct in thinking that the amp puts out 300W @ 8 ohms? Therefore if I add a 4 ohm cab would that make it go louder??

Or if I were to add an Ashdown Mag-115 cab which is rated at 250W @ 8 ohms would this make it sound louder?

Really sorry about this level of naivety but I really confused as to what to do. Can't really afford a proper rig, so either need to use what I have got, or find something else on ebay.

Any advice much appreciated!

Many thanks

[Lozz196]

From what I can see on the site, it appears the amp is 300 watts at minimum impedance of 4ohms, and standing alone works at 8 ohm impedance, and has two speaker jacks. This looks to me that, assuming one of the speaker jacks is connected to the amp, you could add another 8 ohm cab with the other one. This will then get the full 300 watts at 4 ohms. I`m sure other members who`ve used this amp will be along to confirm what it can do.

It all depends on what sound you`re after, adding a 115 will more than likely add lows to the sound. However, a 210 would give you more of your current sound, so at rehearsals you could use just the combo, and add the 210 just for gigs.

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='pburrows' timestamp='1330777602' post='1562822']
Hi guys. I need some advice here as I'm getting lost in some of the technical detail regarding Ohms, watts and overall volume!

I recently did my first gig in a pub using my Ashdown MAG C410 T 300 Bass Combo. It just didn't seem loud enough and was distorting a bit.[/quote]

Was that your opinion alone, or did you go out in front, either wireless or on a long lead, or comments from others that they couldn't hear enough of you?
If you're stood over it with it firing low & past you get a different impression than the punters might.

Edited March 3, 2012 by Big_Stu

[geoffbyrne]

It produces its full 300W through 4 Ohms, which means you need to add another speaker cab which has to be rated at no less than 150W and is 8 Ohms.

Currently, through 8 Ohms, it's giving in the region of 150 - 180W. Adding the second cab will give a large increase in perceived volume.

You can add another 1x15 or a 4x10 (or even a 2x12, but that would need to be 2x 16 Ohms in parallel - I'm not sure how common they are).

When you have 2 cabs of equal resistance (in this case, 8 Ohms) the output power is divided equally between them. So 300/2 means a maximum of 150W into each cab.

G.

Edited March 3, 2012 by geoffbyrne

[pburrows]

Thanks. I did go out front during sound check and I could hear it. IMO it sounded awful but nothing I could do about it.

If I had another cab would 2 x 150 outputs normally be loud enough for a pub gig in your opinion? I'm still a bit confused.

[Paul S]

Maths aside, an Ashdown MAG C410 T 300 Bass Combo should be more than loud enough for any pub gig on its own. I had a 210 for a while and volume was one thing it never lacked. If you are finding it isn't loud enough there must be other issues going on that are clouding* the picture - either positioning so you can hear it, eq set up, even a fault.

* note my restraint when avoiding of the word 'mud' or 'muddying' when discussing MAG series Ashdown...

[Coilte]

[quote name='Paul S' timestamp='1330791210' post='1563080']
Maths aside, an Ashdown MAG C410 T 300 Bass Combo should be more than loud enough for any pub gig on its own. I had a 210 for a while and volume was one thing it never lacked. If you are finding it isn't loud enough there must be other issues going on that are clouding* the picture - either positioning so you can hear it, eq set up, even a fault.
[/quote]

I too would have thought that the 410 combo would have been enough for the average pub gig. As Paul S says, check out the positioning and/or EQ.

Here is a link on your specific question :

[url="http://www.tunemybass.com/bass_amps/bass_guitar_amps_faq.html"]http://www.tunemybass.com/bass_amps/bass_guitar_amps_faq.html[/url]

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='Paul S' timestamp='1330791210' post='1563080']
there must be other issues going on that are clouding* the picture - either positioning so you can hear it, eq set up, even a fault.

* note my restraint when avoiding of the word 'mud' or 'muddying' when discussing MAG series Ashdown...
[/quote]

Bravely restrained Sir!!!!

[pburrows]

Nope I'm not getting the restraint bit. What's the problem then??

[Coilte]

[quote name='pburrows' timestamp='1330804877' post='1563329']
Nope I'm not getting the restraint bit. What's the problem then??
[/quote]

In a nutshell...I dont think he is over fond of the Ashdown MAG sound.

[geoffbyrne]

What's your EQ settings?

G.

[jezzaboy]

I used a MAG300 1X15 combo for about 3 years playing quite largish pubs and it was always loud enough. Does your band play at loud volumes? If you are standing right in front of your rig, try going out into the pub a bit as it is always louder out front than close up.
If you plug in a 15inch 8 ohms extension speaker, this should give you the full 300w and the 15 should add some bottom end to your sound.

And what do you mean you can`t afford a "proper rig"? You`ve got one

Don`t worry about the Ashdown haters on here, they are only jealous

Jez

Edited March 4, 2012 by jezzaboy

[mrtcat]

My concern would be that there's something amiss with your amp. In theory it should be more than man enough for the gig. As others have asked it would be good to know your eq settings, music style and what bass you use. A 300w 4x10 should happily cut it.

Ashdown's have the input gain setting and I've known many people not set this right resulting in distortion. This post may also enter the nice bedroom sound vs nice live sound debate.

[icastle]

[quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1330795709' post='1563166']
Bravely restrained Sir!!!!
[/quote]

+1

Even more so when I suspect that it wasn't actually 'mud' he was thinking of...

[simwells]

It's 250W at 8 ohms, there's one in our practise room which I use sometimes and it does tend to struggle, plugging a matching Ashdown 1x15 into doesn't actually seem to add much either if I'm honest.

It will keep up but certainly is distorting but not necessarily in an unpleasant way but the ashdown mag sound does tend to blend into a mix rather than stand on it's own a lot from my experience.

[geoffbyrne]

I use a redface British built MAG400 (485W@4 Ohms) & am very happy with it. However. One of the things I've discovered is that the EQ is a bit ineffectual till you yonk it up a bit. You seem to lose a ton of power by leaving everything flat. I tend to turn everything up to around 3 o'clock except the bass, which I leave at 12 o'clock. Sometimes I put the Mids back to 12 too as it's naturally a bit mids-heavy. Dependent on the cabs I have attached, I may or may not cut this back a bit when I do the soundtest - I have an Eminence 3015 in a smallish cab & an Eminence 2515 in a large-ish cab. If I use the 3015 on its own, I need the extra bass, which I usually get by hiking up the 220Hz knob a bit, but with the 2515 attached (or both), there's bottom end aplenty without doing too much to the EQ at all.

Try pushing the EQ up a bit & turning back the gain till the needle's only waggling about in the middle.

G.

Edited March 4, 2012 by geoffbyrne

[Benplaysbass]

I've got a Mag 300-410 combo and never had a problem with loudness, but adding the Mag 115 really makes it come alive. I was told at the last gig that they felt the sound from the bass was really driving the band, I think that was a compliment.

[FlatEric]

My most often used rig is the same MAG combo as yours with a 2 x 12 MAG cab - I also have a 1 x 15,
which gives a slightly more mellow sound.
Either cab wil make a BIG difference.
Used mine last night in a big pub, lovely sound.
Get a MAG 2 x 10 or 1 x 15 and a Gramma Pad and you'll be set up for almost any situation.
£100 ish off ebay.

Cheers.

[pburrows]

Thanks to all for your help and advice. I've played it again earlier and think it might have a fault. I noticed the level meter wasn't registering even though it was getting plenty of input. I can play quiet and it sounds fine (not in the slightest bit muddy ) and I can crank it loud with 12 o'clock eq and it does distort a bit.

The band does play quite loud doing classic rock covers. I play a MIM p bass with Seymour pups. I thought it could be the bass but my fret less sounds similar.

I guess thats what happens when you buys amps off eBay ! Perhaps I need to get it looked at.

[spinynorman]

I had a Mag 300 head + 2x10 and 1x15, which never had a problem being heard against large drum kit, guitar and keys. Often I only used 1 of the cabs. My daughter's ex-boyfriend had a Mag 300 2x10 combo, playing in a metal band with 2 guitars, he was ok being heard as well.

One mistake I made at first was cranking up the bass on the eq and rolling off the treble. That does make it distort and disappear in the mix. Don't overdo the bass and bring the treble and mid up, then you'll be heard.

[Paul S]

[quote name='spinynorman' timestamp='1330897306' post='1564619']
One mistake I made at first was cranking up the bass on the eq and rolling off the treble. That does make it distort and disappear in the mix. Don't overdo the bass and bring the treble and mid up, then you'll be heard.
[/quote]

That was the exact same problem I had with my Ashdown MAG 210 combo. I favour a mid-scooped, rather bass-heavy tone and active basses - with everything up on the bass frequency it used to fart like nobodies business. Adding a 115 cab helped but I still found the tone of the MAG was missing a certain clarity.

[xgsjx]

[quote name='pburrows' timestamp='1330804877' post='1563329']
Nope I'm not getting the restraint bit. What's the problem then??
[/quote]

Ashdown are known for having a "Muddy" sound. Some folk like it, some don't.

Like everyone else says, it sounds like either a set up problem or a fault with the combo. Adding a 15 should increase your volume a bit, but it's a mismatched cab & becomes a weak link. Adding another MAG 4x10 would be the matching cab & should give you more low end than adding a 15 would.

I'd see if there's any BCers (folk on here) local to you that can come along to a gig or rehearsal & check things out.

[pburrows]

Bumping this one...

I was in pmt in Birmingham today trying an 15inch abm cab hooked up to a mag 410 combo (same as mine). It sounded really really good. I'd like to buy one. It is £350. But I notice on eBay there is another ashdown 15inch cab going for £140. I think it must be mag.

Now the question is this:
How much difference is there between abm and mag, and would I notice the benefits playing a few gigs using my mex p bass?? Is it worth the extra money? Also do they both have the same driver in them?.

Thanks for your advice

[Paul S]

I think it is well worth the extra money for the ABM. As I said earlier - I had a MAG 210 300 combo, which never sounded 'right' to me. I added an ABM 115 and it was possble to juggle the speakers by unplugging/plugging the combo cab and the difference using the ABM cab on its own and in combination with the MAG cab was very noticeable. And if you get the ABM cab you may decide to one day upgrade the amp to an ABM one and then you will have a much better rig.