Learning the fretboard

[Omen]

I've looked round the forum and can't find any duplicate posts, so I apologise if there actually is one!

I've been told by my bass tutor that learning the fretboard is very important, and I totally agree with him, I just don't know how to go about it. I grabbed myself a piece of paper and drew out a fretboard with the notes inside them and just memorise, but something tells me this isn't the best way to go about it!

Does anyone have any tips?

Cheers.

[Bilbo]

Whatever works. Knowing where the notes are is only half the battle. Knowing how they relate is probably more important.

However, your diagram is a perfectly credible way of learning the basic locations of notes (assuming, of course, it is correct!!). Anther option is to learn to read music and the fretboard knowledge comes from that.

But your way is fine.

[Wil]

Man, I've been playing for 12 years and I still haven't learned the fretboard. What can I say, I'm dedicated

[Alun]

There are plenty of ways of doing it but this is the one I find easiest ....

- the 12th fret is an octave about the open string so has the same "name" note - 12th fret on your E string is an E. After that the notes repeat, 1st fret is an F so 13th fret will be an F, 3rd is a G so 15th is a G, etc
- to make a note flat, you play one fret lower. To make it sharp you play one fret above.
- There are only seven notes which aren't sharp or flat - CDEFGAB

So, if you learn where those seven notes are in the first 12 frets, you can work out where everything else is

That means learning, on a four string bass, 28 notes ( 7 per string) and applying the logic above to find the others rather than trying to remember, if you had a 24 fret four string, 200!

As Bilbo says though, the real art is knowing how those notes relate and how to use them, but this will get you started.

Hope that helps,
Alun

[chris_b]

A lot of players don't know the fretboard, certainly above the 12th fret (that's why it's called the "dusty end"!!).

You're doing alright but I think that learning the whole fretboard in one go is not the best way to start. It's easier to learn things in small, relevant, manageable chunks. I'd start from the 1st fret to the 5th fret, then to the 10th fret and so on.

Joe Hubbard, a great player from the 80's, used to start his first bass lesson by asking the pupil to play every A on the bass. He wanted to see how well you knew your instrument. He also expected you to put in all the A harmonics! You have to build up to this gently!!!

Edited April 9, 2008 by chris_b

[Omen]

Cheers for all the replies. As suggested, I'll take it slow and do it to the 5th fret first.

[quote]Write out the note names from A to G, ignoring sharps and flats for the moment, several times, cut them into squares and put them into a bag.

Write out the string names, E, A, D and G, several times and cut them into squares. Put them in another bag.

Give both bags a shake, then pick a bit of paper from both bags. Try to find the note on the string that's specified.[/quote]

I will definitely be trying that out in the future!

[jakenewmanbass]

Ultimately learning is personal, so how you best remember it will be best known to you. I personally don't relate to memorising note names and diagrams and suchlike so knowing what they are by name (which I now do BTW) is secondary to how each note sounds, which I know intimately, and as Bilbo said how they relate to each other, which is critical if you are going to use them effectively.
Great players will still, after many years of great knowledge, happen across note combination surprises by dint of the fact that there are so many permutations of combination which is then complicated by the context of a key, chord, alteration etc etc, which can appear daunting, but I regard as a delicious challenge that will hopefully keep me on my toes till I drop dead, hopefully with bass in hand.
Jake

[Paul_C]

[quote name='chris_b' post='173166' date='Apr 9 2008, 02:52 PM']A lot of players don't know the fretboard, certainly above the 12th fret (that's why it's called the "dusty end"!!).[/quote]

here's a handy tip - it's the same as the fretboard from the nut to the 12th fret

[Scorchin]

This is helping me understand the notes on the fretboard, I tend to learn the "main" frets and then use my head to fill in the rest. e.g. Fret5 = A,D,G,C going up. I forget where exactly I found this, if anyone knows post it up.

[attachment=7437:BassNotes.jpg]

[GonzoBass]

I have students grab a note,
play the fifth interval of that note on the next string
and then slide to the octave on that same string.


For example:

Play A
(5th fret E string)
Play it's fifth interval
(7th fret A string)
Slide to the octave
(12th fret A string)


Of course you don't have to stop there.
You can continue on up the neck:

Play the next fifth interval
(14th fret D string)
Slide to the octave
19th fret D string


and then reverse the exercise going down the neck:

19th fret D string
19th fret A string
Slide to the 12th fret A string
12th fret E string
Slide to the 5th fret E string


...but I've found it's the sharps and flats that really get you thinking.
Try this:

Play C# on your A string
Play the fifth interval on the D string
Slide to the octave on the D string
Play the next fifth interval on the G string
Slide to the octave on the G string



If you practice this starting with all the notes within your first five frets
(the money area)
while saying the note names as you play them
it should really help to open up the fretboard for you.

Edited April 10, 2008 by GonzoBass

[6stringbassist]

You obviously know your alphabet, assuming that you know what you're strings are, E, A, D, G on a four string bass.

Just carry on the alphabet inserting the sharps and flats as necessary, if you don't know where they are then learn the chromatic scale.

Practice playing riffs and lines etc, and every time you play a note mentally name it, you'll soon learn your fretboard.

Don't forget that the notes repeat.

Edited April 13, 2008 by 6stringbassist

[6stringbassist]

[quote name='Wil' post='173106' date='Apr 9 2008, 01:58 PM']Man, I've been playing for 12 years and I still haven't learned the fretboard. What can I say, I'm dedicated [/quote]

How do you play when you don't know what notes you're playing.

[MissPenguin]

[quote]How do you play when you don't know what notes you're playing.[/quote]

I am also wondering that..

And i need to learn the notes on the fretboard also, so thankyou for this thread

[Wil]

[quote name='6stringbassist' post='175934' date='Apr 13 2008, 10:35 PM']How do you play when you don't know what notes you're playing.[/quote]

By using my ears. If I hear a note I can find it straight away, 99% of the time. If I want to play a 6th up from it, or minor third etc, I'll have the note in my head and my fingers will go there. I just have no idea what note I'll be playing.

What use is knowing the fingerboard if you never use charts, or sight read? I've never had need to in an originals band. I taught myself to sight read when I played Cello, so I can see the use if you want to, for example, play Bach note for note, but I've never had need of it with bass playing.

[wulf]

One of the things I love about the bass is that, with standard tunings, the notes have a consistent relationship to each other. For example, if you can find all the A notes on the bass (probably [i]ignoring[/i] harmonics for the time being) and also know that you can find a C three frets further up on the same string or up one string and back two frets, you can then easily locate all the C notes.

Even for one note, patterns start to knit the whole thing together. For example, you can play an octave by going up two strings and two frets or up three strings and back three frets.

Learn a few patterns like that and you will find that you can soon fill in all the notes very quickly.

Wulf

[matty589]

[quote name='Wil' post='187239' date='Apr 28 2008, 02:24 PM']By using my ears. If I hear a note I can find it straight away, 99% of the time. If I want to play a 6th up from it, or minor third etc, I'll have the note in my head and my fingers will go there. I just have no idea what note I'll be playing.

What use is knowing the fingerboard if you never use charts, or sight read?[/quote]
Because you're limiting your ability to grow as a musician if you don't.
Seriously, would you ask "what is the point of learning to read English if I don't want to pick up a book or newspaper. I can understand spoken English so why should I ever learn to read it?". I hope I don't need to answer that question
You say you can hear a note and find it straight away but how about chords? If someone plays a chord can you hear the root, third, seventh? How about chromatic runs or non-major/minor/pentatonics? Maybe your ears are good but they'll only get you so far. What if a string breaks mid-song? If you know the fretboard you just jump to the same spot on another string (hopefully!). If you're putting your finger [i]here[/i] because it sounds good then you won't know where [i]there[/i] is.
Your band playing's good though - keep it up!

Edited April 28, 2008 by matty589

[MissPenguin]

I think the difference between that, then, would be that learning Bach note for note is generally not as predictable as figuring out bass lines? I guess it also depends on the complexity of the bassline.. But following chords and such, i guess once you've figured out what sounds good and tends to work in most songs, you'll be okay.
There will be exceptions obviously..
That's what i think you're saying, Wil.
If not feel free to correct me.
I'm still learning my scales. And the fretboard. I seem to be a bit of a failure when it comes to theory etc.
Hopefully i'll learn.

[P-T-P]

Good thread.

For my money, there's nothing really wrong with the way the OP is doing it so long as you have the aptitude for learning things that way and prefer a strictly modular approach to your bass playing education.

Loads of great suggestions too from others. For the most complete solution, I would recommend looking at a book/books that deal with fingerboard harmony along with harmony and theory or look into lessons with a tutor who can instruct you in these areas, that way you get the best of both worlds all rolled up in one. You'll learn scales, modes, chords (and arpeggios) along with the note names and how they each relate to one another.

As I said though, nothing wrong with just learning the names of the notes/frets individually, in fact that's what I did many moons ago. Although doing it this way won't explain to you why sometimes it's a Bb and sometimes it's an A# etc.

Even having learned the theory behind the naming of notes, unless I'm thinking in terms of the key of the song, my first instinct is to say F# ahead of Gb, G# ahead of Ab, Bb ahead of A#, C# ahead of Db and Eb ahead of D#.

[jakenewmanbass]

[quote name='P-T-P' post='189762' date='May 1 2008, 02:44 PM']Even having learned the theory behind the naming of notes, unless I'm thinking in terms of the key of the song, my first instinct is to say F# ahead of Gb, G# ahead of Ab, Bb ahead of A#, C# ahead of Db and Eb ahead of D#.[/quote]

Thats interesting, having grown up playing with saxomophones (plumbing to the uninitiated) I err towards the flat keys.

[EOS650]

A sort-of old post, but I'll add. Learn all the major notes and know that to the left or to the right is a flat or sharp (Except for B and C and E and F). If you know where an A is you know that A sharp is a half step (1 fret) up. Makes things a little easier.

[wulf]

Don't forget notes like Cb and E#. If you stick to 3 chord blues rock you can probably ignore them but they do crop up in more harmonically advanced music. For example, if you are playing a piece in Ab and want to drop in a flattened third, the note you are after is Cb. Yes, it is in the same place and has the same pitch as B but if you take the "easy way out" and call it B you lose the relationship of the note to the root of the chord and the simple pattern.

In the long run, you are making life harder for yourself. Embrace the logic of notes like Cb and Bbb (same pitch as A but the note you want as the diminished seventh from a C) and the patterns that appear will give you a much better chance of keeping up whatever key a song is called in.

Wulf

[Bilbo]

I'm with Jakesbass on this one. Anyone who works with horns is more likely to gravitate more towards flat keys as most 'jazz' horns (trumpet, flugelhorn, tenor sax, alto, baritone, soprano ) are tuned to Eb or Bb. If you have ever written out charts for a jazz band with horns, you would have had to deal with this.

Wulf's right too although I have rarely seen anything actually written in Ab.

[XB26354]

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='199357' date='May 15 2008, 10:25 AM']Wulf's right too although I have rarely seen anything actually written in Ab. [/quote]
Donna Lee

[Bilbo]

One swallow does not a summer make!

[jakenewmanbass]

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='199732' date='May 15 2008, 04:31 PM']One swallow does not a summer make! [/quote]
Not trying to be contrary but it's got me thinking of Ab tunes now.
Isn't 'Cotton Tail' a rhythm changes in Ab?

And on a completely unrelated 'I love' moment
I love: 'A child is born', Thad Jones.

Edited May 15, 2008 by jakesbass