Stagefright - who suffers from it and how do you deal with it?

[icastle]

[quote name='4000' timestamp='1330969714' post='1565576']
You know what worries me the most? IIRC only one person in this thread (who now doesn't gig) has admitted to suffering from it. And here was I thinking it was pretty common and people just had better coping mechanisms then me!
[/quote]

I find 'people' interesting.
I've watched people I've worked with over the years just prior to gigs - some go quiet, others get loud, some can't sit still, some have 'lucky' guitar straps and others flop back in a chair in a semi comatose state.

Those actions are all 'coping mechanisms' kicking in and, in experienced musicians, are all pretty much unconcious reflexes.
The thing is though, those reflexes are a result of numerous failed attempts.

It really is just a case of 'keep doing it' and give your subconcious a chance to sort out the wheat from the chaff.

[rOB]

[quote name='icastle' timestamp='1330970810' post='1565604']
I find 'people' interesting.
I've watched people I've worked with over the years just prior to gigs - some go quiet, others get loud, some can't sit still, some have 'lucky' guitar straps and others flop back in a chair in a semi comatose state.

Those actions are all 'coping mechanisms' kicking in and, in experienced musicians, are all pretty much unconcious reflexes.
The thing is though, those reflexes are a result of numerous failed attempts.

It really is just a case of 'keep doing it' and give your subconcious a chance to sort out the wheat from the chaff.
[/quote]

Well put. For me it took a while to learn that I need to keep busy before a gig. Talk to people in the audience, check gear, go for a walk, warm up etc. Not stage fright but nerves to the point of shaking hands in the early stages of performing.

[leftyhook]

Naaaah!!!!
Years and years of playing.
Self-cofidence
Being in control of your instrument.

[icastle]

[quote name='rOB' timestamp='1330972331' post='1565640']
Well put. For me it took a while to learn that I need to keep busy before a gig. Talk to people in the audience, check gear, go for a walk, warm up etc. Not stage fright but nerves to the point of shaking hands in the early stages of performing.
[/quote]

Yep, and I bet it took a lot of failed attempts before you hit on the formula that works for you.

[icastle]

[quote name='leftyhook' timestamp='1330972549' post='1565643']
Naaaah!!!!
Years and years of playing.
Self-cofidence
Being in control of your instrument.
[/quote]

Those years and years of playing and being in control of your instrument are what's given you the self confidence.
If I knew you as a person outside of playing and then saw you just prior to going on, I bet I'd be able to spot the subconcious coping mechanism you were using.

[rOB]

[quote name='icastle' timestamp='1330972701' post='1565650']
Yep, and I bet it took a lot of failed attempts before you hit on the formula that works for you.
[/quote]
Correct. Still get nervous but now I have a way of managing it.

[icastle]

[quote name='rOB' timestamp='1330973178' post='1565664']
Correct. Still get nervous but now I have a way of managing it.
[/quote]

And that background nervousness will become less and less noticeable over the years.

It's just like being scared of heights - the first six rungs of a ladder are the hardest, once you've cracked those then rungs seven and eight are pretty much inconsequential.

[LemonCello]

I don't think it matters how long you've spent in music, I believe that some people suffer more than others. I've known professional musicians who have been in music all their lives who suffer with debilitating stage fright. I would have thought it's treatable - hypnotherapy already mentioned, it's a mind thing after all.

[icastle]

[quote name='LemonCello' timestamp='1330973992' post='1565689']
I don't think it matters how long you've spent in music, I believe that some people suffer more than others. I've known professional musicians who have been in music all their lives who suffer with debilitating stage fright. I would have thought it's treatable - hypnotherapy already mentioned, it's a mind thing after all.
[/quote]

I think the longer you spend in music the more chance you have of rationalising and coping with stage fright.

There are some personality types who, for whatever reason, don't manage to work through the numerous 'coping strategies' and unfortunately feel they have no choice but to leave the performance aspect of the music business.

It's fair to surmise that those who remain in this part of the music business must have found strategies that make the exercise bearable or find that the rewards offset the disadvantages.

[crez5150]

Only time I've been nervous has always been in front of close friends and family........ Think it's because they really know me... where as the usual function crowd do not, so I can be who ever I like.

[TimR]

The only time I ever got stage fright was at my wedding. I learned the speech, and who to give what to. My father-in-law did his speech and completely knocked me for 6. I stood up knowing exactly what to say, looked around the room and just forgot everything.

It's the pressure of trying to live up to other peoples expectation when you think their expectation is greater than yours.

Musical stage fright? Never. We're the band, we've practiced and we've been asked to play. We don't have to be there, we choose to be there. People want to be there and they want us to be there. Make a mistake, laugh it off, it's live music, no one will die. AND most of all no one will remember or notice the mistakes (other than the OCD band leader) they'll just remember the good bits.

[4000]

[quote name='LemonCello' timestamp='1330973992' post='1565689']
I don't think it matters how long you've spent in music, I believe that some people suffer more than others. I've known professional musicians who have been in music all their lives who suffer with debilitating stage fright. I would have thought it's treatable - hypnotherapy already mentioned, it's a mind thing after all.
[/quote]

Thank you. There seems to be a theme running through here that suggests I haven't played much / enough; I've been gigging fairly regularly (except for the last 3 years or so) for over 30 years (I'm 48). It has NEVER gone away, with the possible exception of the band I was in for 3 years or so that I mentioned earlier (although I'll add that I was always fairly hammered when we went on and the band was a very loose affair where I could play pretty much what I wanted; ironically it was the most popular band I've ever been in.). I'm also aware of many musicians who suffer debilitating stagefright (I mentioned a couple, including Ozzy; no one can tell me he hasn't gigged enough!). Maybe hypnotherapy is a serious option.

[4000]

[quote name='Rumple' timestamp='1330970607' post='1565601']


As mentioned by others I think being nervous is something that most people would feel to some degree [u]but[/u] suffering from a debilitating stage fright isn't so common and also quite hard for people to understand, I remember being told once, "you'll be all right once you get up there and start the first tune" but that's when my brain trashes all memory and my fingers stop working.
[/quote]

Exactly. Friday I was fine until we were announced; then everything just went.

Anyone suffer from fear of heights? I mean the real thing, not just a slight nervousness. It's a similar feeling. I remember being on the third level of a mall in San Francisco and having to back to the farthest wall and sit on the floor because my brain just exploded. It's happened dozens of other times too. Reading up on it it seems, in simple terms, that certain people who are overly reliant on visual stimulus for their spacial awareness struggle with heights because trying to process the relatively extreme visual information in an effort to orient themselves in space causes their brains to effectively overload. I guess something similar could be the case with true stagefright; an anxiety overload that just causes everything to switch off. I shall have to do more reading on it.

[4000]

[quote name='icastle' timestamp='1330973763' post='1565680']


It's just like being scared of heights - the first six rungs of a ladder are the hardest, once you've cracked those then rungs seven and eight are pretty much inconsequential.
[/quote]

Not entirely true; see post above!

[4000]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1330984860' post='1565963']
The only time I ever got stage fright was at my wedding. I learned the speech, and who to give what to. My father-in-law did his speech and completely knocked me for 6. I stood up knowing exactly what to say, looked around the room and just forgot everything.

It's the pressure of trying to live up to other peoples expectation when you think their expectation is greater than yours.

[/quote]

The first part is pretty much it. The second part......I doubt anyone's expectations are greater than mine, which I suspect is part of the problem!

[thumperbob 2002]

Always got nervous when I started playing- but then I was 14.

Cannot remember what it feels like to be anxious or nervous to get on stage as 1000s of gigs later I always feel as though I live on stage. Stick a bloody great camera in front of me though..........

I changed career some years ago and as this was something that was new to me I got rather nervous giving presentations, though that went away fairly quickly. I found that not taking these too seriously helped. I have seen many band members freeze with stage fright- especially playing big gigs- seen it all, tears, vomitting- band members going missing-the lot. To be honest it always made me laugh which is not what you want to hear.

[BigRedX]

Some interesting points raised in the last few posts especially regarding non-musical performances. I think stage fright is related to your degree of confidence and being in control.

My lack of stage fright is pretty music limited to performing music. I've never been in bands with "guitards" or other "bell-end" members, so I know when I get up on stage that my fellow band mates know what they are doing and will do their best to deliver a great performance. Also baring catastrophic equipment failure most of the audience won't notice any mistakes, so why worry about it? Plus the majority of the bands I have been in have had some kind of "image" that allows me to become a large-than-life character when I get on stage. Maybe that's my coping mechanism?

I know that try to put me in any other performance situation in public especially anything requiring words or speaking and I will do my best to make sure that I never even get close to having to do it - even faking illness if necessary.

[thepurpleblob]

Having suffered from anxiety and panic attacks in the past, I have a great deal of sympathy. I've been in the situation where I could get up on stage no problem but could not sit in a pub as a 'punter' (I would take a panic attack). I'm sure, for me, it's all about that feeling of being in control. A phobic reaction is - by definition I think - an extreme reaction to a stressful situation. It's reasonable to be nervous getting on stage - it's not reasonable to have debilitating fear.

Perhaps you should find some professional help? It took group therapy to allow me to cope (not cure) with my anxiety issues. I'm naturally sceptical about such things but I'm very glad I went along. Most people were much worse than me !!

Edited March 6, 2012 by thepurpleblob

[icastle]

[quote name='4000' timestamp='1331021746' post='1566261']
Not entirely true; see post above!
[/quote]

Damn those backfiring analogies...

[Ou7shined]

Interesting topic Sean.

I have suffered quite horrifically from debilitating panic attacks over the last 15 years. I can be at work or in any social situation (even 1 to 1) with everything going fine then *voomp* I suddenly become self aware and start to panic. Oddly enough, whenever I play on stage it all goes away. I should say though that I'm not immune, I think in probably the last 25 years or so of gigging I've maybe had had that "trapped" feeling about 2 or 3 times... but the fingers just kept doing their thing (I think) and the thoughts subsided. I did used to use anxiety medication and slight inebriation as a preventative during my worst years but then I came to realise when gigs were sprung on me or the running order suddenly changed that I didn't in fact need it. I think it's because I'm comfortable with what I am doing and know that 99% of the time I'll be doing it better than 99% of the people watching me can... unless your at a bass bash or something.

Shaun, you are a fantastic bassist. It wouldn't do any harm to take a moment to remind yourself of this before your next gig. Indeed you should take strength on the night from knowing you are probably better than anyone else in the room at it.

If you think you might need a little chemical assistance and have a good relationship with your GP then perhaps you can go have a chat and request to try out some mild anxiety meds for stage-fright and no other time (diazipam 2s work well, are light but effective for occasional use and will not impair your performance). Docs (quite rightly) tend to get hung up on the addictive nature of these meds, so enforce the point that it would be strictly short-term and for gigging purposes only. Try it for a few gigs then try it without. It might be enough to get you out of the panic cycle.

Some have said that hiding at the back of the stage is a solution. I can't see the point of performing live if you're just going to feel uncomfortable and hide - stay at home and play if that's the case. Most people who have seen me play will bare witness to my "[url="http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/310571_111093565665413_100002943117272_77580_1574260302_n.jpg"]mental Rich[/url]" stage persona (who is the complete antithesis to "off-stage Rich" who tries to fade into the background a bit) and I think this indulgent escapism seems to be another key to holding off those bad feelings too... I've always done it and don't know any other way to put on a good show... it works for me anyway.

My drummer (who has logged less stage time than me) has bad nerves (not stage-fright - I don't think). He gets very twitchy in the run up and always disappears off to the bogs 5 minutes before we go on and recently I've been helping him with this by letting him know he's not alone in feeling like that - probably half the guys in the bands we play alongside feel that way too. I also remind him how I practically zone out what's behind the glare of the spotlights even though from the outside it looks like my performance is interactive. And regular eye contact with the band is another way of keeping out of your own head too.

Out of necessity, I've recently started rehearsing as bass [b]and vocals[/b] with my new outfit. I've not fronted a band for about 20 odd years, so we'll see how that goes. I'm not too comfortable with the thought of it but perhaps it's just the next thing I have to prove to myself.

[leftyhook]

[quote name='icastle' timestamp='1330972898' post='1565656']
Those years and years of playing and being in control of your instrument are what's given you the self confidence.
If I knew you as a person outside of playing and then saw you just prior to going on, I bet I'd be able to spot the subconcious coping mechanism you were using.
[/quote]

Interesting, Dr. Lector..... ; )
Seriously, I don't bat an eyelid as I look up at the stage with 5 minutes to go. Maybe when there's a few new songs in the set, I have a "can't wait til that bit is over" about me
But as someone else said, some people still get really nervous despite years of performing.
We are all different and my approach doesn't make me any cleverer or better than another person.
I have been a teacher, a children's entertainer and a stand-up comedian, so it is obviously part of my make-up to entertain/address a crowd.

I have to hold my hand up and say that I get into character. I adopt a mental stance that I am up there, and the crowd aren't. They are there to see ME, eve if they aren't.
I definitely have a quirky approach to the visual side of things, but in a subtle way.
I am being myself, but it is a facet of myself that detaches from the 'normal' me.
Hmm...self analysis is making me nervous...

[icastle]

[quote name='leftyhook' timestamp='1331061325' post='1567090']
I have to hold my hand up and say that I get into character. I adopt a mental stance that I am up there, and the crowd aren't. They are there to see ME, eve if they aren't.
I definitely have a quirky approach to the visual side of things, but in a subtle way.
I am being myself, but it is a facet of myself that detaches from the 'normal' me.
[/quote]
Well that's your coping mechanism - you get into character to play a role.

[quote name='leftyhook' timestamp='1331061325' post='1567090']
Hmm...self analysis is making me nervous...
[/quote]
Sorry mate, that was never the intention I promise.

I've always found the way people react under given circumstances absolutely fascinating and the only way I can do that is understand why I react to different things in certain ways.
In my enthusiasm I do sometimes forget that drawing people into self analysis can be a bit disconcerting.

[4000]

[quote name='Ou7shined' timestamp='1331053536' post='1566934']
Interesting topic Sean.

I have suffered quite horrifically from debilitating panic attacks over the last 15 years. I can be at work or in any social situation (even 1 to 1) with everything going fine then *voomp* I suddenly become self aware and start to panic. Oddly enough, whenever I play on stage it all goes away. I should say though that I'm not immune, I think in probably the last 25 years or so of gigging I've maybe had had that "trapped" feeling about 2 or 3 times... but the fingers just kept doing their thing (I think) and the thoughts subsided. I did used to use anxiety medication and slight inebriation as a preventative during my worst years but then I came to realise when gigs were sprung on me or the running order suddenly changed that I didn't in fact need it. I think it's because I'm comfortable with what I am doing and know that 99% of the time I'll be doing it better than 99% of the people watching me can... unless your at a bass bash or something.

Shaun, you are a fantastic bassist. It wouldn't do any harm to take a moment to remind yourself of this before your next gig. Indeed you should take strength on the night from knowing you are probably better than anyone else in the room at it.

If you think you might need a little chemical assistance and have a good relationship with your GP then perhaps you can go have a chat and request to try out some mild anxiety meds for stage-fright and no other time (diazipam 2s work well, are light but effective for occasional use and will not impair your performance). Docs (quite rightly) tend to get hung up on the addictive nature of these meds, so enforce the point that it would be strictly short-term and for gigging purposes only. Try it for a few gigs then try it without. It might be enough to get you out of the panic cycle.

Some have said that hiding at the back of the stage is a solution. I can't see the point of performing live if you're just going to feel uncomfortable and hide - stay at home and play if that's the case. Most people who have seen me play will bare witness to my "[url="http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/310571_111093565665413_100002943117272_77580_1574260302_n.jpg"]mental Rich[/url]" stage persona (who is the complete antithesis to "off-stage Rich" who tries to fade into the background a bit) and I think this indulgent escapism seems to be another key to holding off those bad feelings too... I've always done it and don't know any other way to put on a good show... it works for me anyway.

My drummer (who has logged less stage time than me) has bad nerves (not stage-fright - I don't think). He gets very twitchy in the run up and always disappears off to the bogs 5 minutes before we go on and recently I've been helping him with this by letting him know he's not alone in feeling like that - probably half the guys in the bands we play alongside feel that way too. I also remind him how I practically zone out what's behind the glare of the spotlights even though from the outside it looks like my performance is interactive. And regular eye contact with the band is another way of keeping out of your own head too.

Out of necessity, I've recently started rehearsing as bass [b]and vocals[/b] with my new outfit. I've not fronted a band for about 20 odd years, so we'll see how that goes. I'm not too comfortable with the thought of it but perhaps it's just the next thing I have to prove to myself.
[/quote]

Hi Rich,

Firstly, a big thanks for the very generous comment about my playing; brought a tear to my eye (I'd have said I had to get the kleenex out but you may have got the wrong idea!). The cheque's in the post. ;-) I guess part of the initial mental problem with me is that even if I was the second coming of Jaco I'd still think I sucked. So that's a big step one down the slippery slope. I remember once being on a training course at work and after a week my trainer turned to me and said "why are you so hard on yourself?". Can open, worms everywhere....."no idea" is the answer. "Dr Freud, I'm ready for my close up..."

Secondly, really, really sorry to hear about the panic attacks. I know from experience what that's like as I started with them 2 or 3 years ago whilst going through some personal issues. Absolutely horrible. I think since then they're always closer to the surface and I think possibly the extra pressure at a gig is just kick-starting the mechanism, plus the fact that I don't drink like I used to (not that I was an alcoholic or anything by any stretch but now I seldom drink at all) takes away my main coping strategy for gigging.

I think often in the past no matter how terrified I've been the fingers have indeed "kept doing their thing", but in recent years it's even got past that; they're pretty much ceasing to function. Reading up about it (quite interesting) IIRC the fight or flight mechanism draws blood away from the extremities which combined with the mental confusion, change in breathing etc means your limbs don't function as they should and start shaking (something that I became horribly aware of when I went to pick up my drink between songs). Looks like the best way of coping with that is to do something physical (in the absence of groupies - whatever they are - star jumps or a run round the block may suffice!).

I was prescribed diazepam for my panic attacks but the dosage was light and the attacks pretty strong so it didn't really work; luckily I got through the worst of it (partly by - ironically - ditching the other medication I'd been prescribed fo anxiety and depression, lol) so didn't take any further steps. It's something I'd consider but my entire family seems to have problems with many types of medication so it would probably be a last resort.

I'm not sure I believe in hiding at the back either. My old drummer, one of my best friends, suggested I just don't gig anymore, but then it's beaten me and I won't have that unless there really is no other option. I'm sure there are ways round it. Must admit I've also had some (unconscious) success in previous bands by slipping into an onstage "identity" (usually enabled by dressing differently than normal) but I seem to struggle with that these days, probably because at 48 I'm more scared of looking daft. ;-) I have definitely become far more self-conscious on stage as I've got older(not good as I started self-conscious at the beginning!). I think you've hit the nail on the head (rather fittingly) about keeping out of your own head. For some of us it's not a good place to be....

Best of luck with the band-fronting, I really hope it works out. Just before my last band imploded I'd started to work towards doing the same thing & I think subconsciously for similar reasons. Of course then the band fell apart and that was that. It's something I'm still considering for the future though, however bizarre that may seem in the light of this thread!

[4000]

[quote name='thepurpleblob' timestamp='1331026565' post='1566352']
Having suffered from anxiety and panic attacks in the past, I have a great deal of sympathy. I've been in the situation where I could get up on stage no problem but could not sit in a pub as a 'punter' (I would take a panic attack). I'm sure, for me, it's all about that feeling of being in control. A phobic reaction is - by definition I think - an extreme reaction to a stressful situation. It's reasonable to be nervous getting on stage - it's not reasonable to have debilitating fear.

Perhaps you should find some professional help? It took group therapy to allow me to cope (not cure) with my anxiety issues. I'm naturally sceptical about such things but I'm very glad I went along. Most people were much worse than me !!
[/quote]

BTW, very sorry to hear about your issues and glad you've found ways of coping. I'll see how it goes but I'm certainly not averse to professional help having had some success with counselling before now (although not the NHS sort which was beyond hopeless!).

[thepurpleblob]

[quote name='4000' timestamp='1331109594' post='1567620']
BTW, very sorry to hear about your issues and glad you've found ways of coping. I'll see how it goes but I'm certainly not averse to professional help having had some success with counselling before now (although not the NHS sort which was beyond hopeless!).
[/quote]

Thanks. They say one in three have mental health problems. There are a lot of people a lot worse off than me. I can't say it has ever held me back but some people can't leave the house. The NHS support where I live is actually very good but this is Scotland which does seem to be a bit more organised on average. The big thing that I took away is that I have "always been mad" - well displayed the symptoms - I'd just never realised. That was quite liberating. I know we've moved a long way from stage fright but I think some people (like me) are just wound up a bit tight and it's well worth digging around for the root causes.