gub Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 After getting back in to playing a couple of years back after a break of about 15 yrs I would like to test out the water with a valve amp , I currently play through a trace Elliot 300 combo which I went for as I used to do a few mark king impressions first time round ( well it was the 80's ) but now I find my playing has changed and I have just got a lovely old 70s antoria jazz which I think would benefit from the valve route , I suppose I am wondering what sort of size amp and cabs I would need really to take over from my current setup ? We play mainly rock / pop and in pubs and small clubs , we occasionally do an outdoor gig too , any suggestions would be cool . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cocco Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 I love my Orange AD200, It has a lovely tone and is super easy to use, the only thing I would say holds it back is the EQ which doesn't do a lot, however with a preamp pedal you don't really need it anyway. Then cabs wise its up to you really, I am a big fan of the 8x10 sound but having said that they are massive! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Rock Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) Depends on your wallet, your back and your car. [b]Wallet[/b]: How much are you willing to spend? New decent valve amps start at around a grand. [b]Back[/b]: Are you willing to lift a 300w beast plus 8x10 around? I'd say the lightest you can get for your volume requirements would be something like an EBS T90 paired with a Barefaced 69'er. [b]Car: [/b]How much space do you have? A 200w amp with a 1x15 is relatively compact yet bloody loud. Edited March 6, 2012 by Roland Rock Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertbass Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 Always used to be a 100w head and two 4x12s and that did every gig you could think of. You'd need a 1000w to be twice as loud as 100w. I use 200w head and two 4x10s or an 8x10, great sound and enough for any gig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 [quote name='gub' timestamp='1331016975' post='1566222'] ....like to test out the water with a valve amp.... [/quote] Lie down in a dark room, the feeling will pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
longtimefred Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 do it! dont worry about the size of the stuff. I can fit my whole rig in the boot of my car. All valve and none of this little tiny lightweight crap! you know it makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franzbassist Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) Does it have to be [i]all[/i] valve? If so, then the Ashdown LB30 is a good starting point: it's only 30 watts but plenty loud enough for most pubs and clubs if you have decent cab(s) to go with it. If you want more power then maybe consider the hybrids with valve preamp section and either MOSFET (e.g. Ashdown Dual Tube series) or digital power sections (e.g. Genz Benz Streamliner, Gallien Krueger MB Fusion). All the tone, but none of the weight an all-tube head brings. Edited March 6, 2012 by walbassist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 (edited) Get the Sound City 120 in for sale, and possible the 2x15 that was with it, if I've connected the sellers right. Sort you right out. Edit: http://basschat.co.uk/topic/166026-sound-city-b120-all-valve-amp/page__p__1565102__hl__sound%20city__fromsearch__1#entry1565102 Edited March 6, 2012 by Mr. Foxen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rapscallion Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 +1 to Mr Foxen, I'd love a Sound City but can't seem to get one locally. If you're near thats a steal for an all valve head Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gub Posted March 7, 2012 Author Share Posted March 7, 2012 Cheers guys, as usual some great advice ,i do like the look of the sound city mr f but as i am down in cornwall dont really want to travel to manchester to pick up . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pow_22 Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 Cheers for the nod towards my for sale gear guys. It is a great set up and id consider offers for the full rig. Unfortunately ive never shipped anything so big/heavey/delicate and my reluctance to is probably costing me a sale. Back OT, id wanted a valve rig for ages and was not disappointed when i finally got one. The whole sound is just amazing, its warm and fuzzy and perfect for what i wanted. Unfortunately the lanlord at the Royal Oak dosent agree and as such im down sizing. Ill never beat the sound ive had with the SC unless i go all valve again one day - so id say if you can bag a local all valve amp then go for it, you wont be disappointed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie Posted March 7, 2012 Share Posted March 7, 2012 [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1331030659' post='1566437'] Lie down in a dark room, the feeling will pass. [/quote] This is the best advice on this thread IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Horton Posted March 8, 2012 Share Posted March 8, 2012 [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1331030659' post='1566437'] Lie down in a dark room, the feeling will pass. [/quote] I love it I owned an Orange AD200 with the matching Orange 410 & 115 cabs , all in flight cases. The rig sounded fantastic with my Precision and Stingray 5. In the end i sold the lot as really needed two people to help move the gear. It was ok when i was with the band but when i got home i was on my own and just could not do it. I do miss the valve tone but not the weight issue. I also had a "when are the valves going to go" thought constantly in the back of my mind at each gig. I use Epifani gear now and i do keep thinking "how can i have the valve tone with my LIGHT Epi gear "??? a valve pedal ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cosmo Valdemar Posted March 9, 2012 Share Posted March 9, 2012 [quote name='Chris Horton' timestamp='1331223733' post='1569792']I also had a "when are the valves going to go" thought constantly in the back of my mind at each gig. [/quote] That was always my concern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christopherbassmay Posted March 18, 2012 Share Posted March 18, 2012 In my opinion u just can't go wrong with valve, as for the valves going it takes a long old time for them to go and when they do it's not major surgery. I was a mark bass user for quite some time but fancied a change and went down the Mesa route and was lucky enough to get a Titanv12 which is twelve hundred watts of filthy valve goodness, I don't believe Mesa make it anymore which is a shame because I would never get rid of mine and paired up with my Mesa 8x10 it's fab apart from my back trying to move the cab. As for size of cab and what head and how much power I find any valve head of a decent calibre will always cut through a mix so much better than a solid state amp. I also play guitar(badly) and have a Mesa mk five and its the same story on the guitar front with valve it always cuts through so much better. As for cabs a four ten is my favourite way forward small enough to fit in the boot but still has forty inches of speaker surface moving air. wattage, anything near the 300mark would be ample for most gigs. A nice ampeg with that warm lovely tone that's like a rub on the back and a horlicks before bed would be a good option 🔊🔊😏 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 The V12 is a solid state hybrid, the watts aren't valve.. There are loads lighter hybrids about. Also need to figure how diameter and multiples relate to moving air: you don't add them together, it works from area. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Truckstop Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 1200 valve watts?! I think I remember hearing that someone tried to build an amp that powerful in Chernobyl in the mid-80's. Truckstop Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doddy Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 [quote name='longtimefred' timestamp='1331030863' post='1566439'] do it! dont worry about the size of the stuff. I can fit my whole rig in the boot of my car. All valve and none of this little tiny lightweight crap! you know it makes sense. [/quote] Someone doesn't gig 4-5 nights a week The Ashdown Little Bastard was mentioned earlier...they've just brought out the new LB550.I've not tried it yet,but I'm guessing it'll sound like the LB but way louder. It might be worth looking at a Hybrid head too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 [quote name='Truckstop' timestamp='1332121422' post='1583671'] 1200 valve watts?! I think I remember hearing that someone tried to build an amp that powerful in Chernobyl in the mid-80's. Truckstop [/quote] Nottingham: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christopherbassmay Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Lol yeah my amp comes with a host of technicians all wearing white coats looking at a circular light board, and inbetween each valve there are huge control rods! Once we took the control rods all the way up during testing to see how loud it was but they bent under intense tone and wouldn't sit back into the housings! Thus a meltdown occurred and next door was unimpressed to say the least. U are right it isn't twelve hundred watts of valve it's got four valves before the power section which is twenty two mosfets which are actually made in England which worries me because we can't make much nowadays 🇬🇧 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christopherbassmay Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 (edited) The watts ain't valve but the tone is! I do agree there are much lighter amps on the market. But saying that my heads in a 4u rack mount and really isn't hard work to move around. And its not a good thing having all the watts when it comes to valve, for example my head sounds truly better when it's at 8ohms rather than 4 because it's only pushing out 600watts and in turn u can push it into the red and drive the valves more and make them work harder and get better tone, that's why guitarist like Paul Gilbert use that hot plate thing to Cain the valves and get the best tone. That's the good thing about my cab I can go between 600watts and 1200watts because it's 4ohm or eight ohm Edited March 19, 2012 by christopherbassmay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan670844 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 I got a little Bastard and a LB212 cab, its plenty loud enough for me, 30 watts only but very wide bandwidth on the output transformer, itll do as low as 20hz at 30 watts, from its quality sowter job, you'd be supprised how loud it is with a high spl cab ( the lb212 uk is 106db) the best thing is that it has the di on the output transformer so you get the power valve tone, to the desk, let the PA do the work I say, as im not keen on going deaf just yet. The LB however, is plenty loud enough for pub gigs, with the right cab, as long as your drummer is a good one and the guitarist is not power mad. The little B has a wonderful and amazing tone and once the amp is wound over halfway the tone stack works fantastic. If you have a passive jazz or precision, the sensitivity it adds to the strings needs to be experienced. And if you have it dimed and want it clean just put you bass through the active input, active basses turn it down!. I really think this style of amp has a great future as more and more venues are getting quality PA stuff, due to noise abatement regulations, this will give you that valve tone, that you can carry and its plenty loud enough for personal monitoring and you have the tap on the output tranny for that great tone transmission Another option for the less brave would be the Traynor YBA 200 or YBA300 and a high spl cab, I have had the pleasure of using the YBA300, its a great amp, traynor stuff is pretty bombproof, parametric mid control, great. 12 bottles, but 6l6 are relatively cheap, it would be cheaper to revalve than the 200 which has 4 KT88s £800 quid from Thomann and only weighs 23kgs! Pair it with a nice high spl cab and you will be there. If you want to have a real world all valve rig, i.e small and light enough to cart around, you have got to look for high sensitivity cabs i.e over 100db per watt per metre that are lighweight, there are plenty around i.e good 2x12s,4x10, 215s, 610s 15s and more esoteric offerings from , Basssyteme, Barefaced etc Yes you can go for hybrids but they will never have that tone, sensitivity and the dynamic compression that a valve output stage will give you. I say go for it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 (edited) [quote name='christopherbassmay' timestamp='1332151130' post='1583824'] The watts ain't valve but the tone is! I do agree there are much lighter amps on the market. But saying that my heads in a 4u rack mount and really isn't hard work to move around. And its not a good thing having all the watts when it comes to valve, for example my head sounds truly better when it's at 8ohms rather than 4 because it's only pushing out 600watts and in turn u can push it into the red and drive the valves more and make them work harder and get better tone, that's why guitarist like Paul Gilbert use that hot plate thing to Cain the valves and get the best tone. That's the good thing about my cab I can go between 600watts and 1200watts because it's 4ohm or eight ohm [/quote] Using a hot plate is so you can drive the power valves, which you amp doesn't have. Unless the amp is chronically badly designed, nothing should stop you driving the pre section as hard as you like without having the power section pump out loads of volume. Also a cab that does both 4 and 8 ohm isn't actually possible, unless you cease to use some speakers. And pushing 600w into any one cab is generally more than they can take without exceeding xmax. edit: inserted quote due to someone getting between. Edited March 19, 2012 by Mr. Foxen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christopherbassmay Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Oh wait your right my cab doesn't go between that sorry getting mixed up just took a look at the back of the head an I thought there was a switch to change between 4and 8ohms duhh and it's 4/8 or 2ohms don't know where I got that from. Sorry before I had a markbass 4x10 and the ohmage would have been 8ohms and the head would be pumping out 650 watts that's when it sounded filth. Back to the main point I think a hybrid amp would be the way forward in terms of portability and power. I personally don't think there's that much deference tone wise to an all valve setup Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiamPodmore Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Mmm.... LB through a Super 12 Liam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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