Bad bassist??

[Bassdriver]

I haven't read through the thread, just the OPs original question so I'm sure this point has been made several time by now...

My answer is yes. I know I could develop more as a player and there will always be 'better' players than me, but who's to say what better is. I have a mate who is an amazing jazz player and I think wow you're reall good, so much 'better' than me, but then he will always complement me on my feel as a player and how I can hold a groove really well. However bad you think you are there will be someone who thinks you're better.

If you're enjoying playing that's all that matters and worrying about whether you're better or worse than player xyz is a sure way to hinder your enjoyment.

Edited March 11, 2012 by Bassdriver

[xilddx]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1331486871' post='1573571']
Nice playing. You're nearly as good as me!
[/quote]

[xilddx]

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1331487239' post='1573578']
Some really bad advice here from people who really should know better!

[b]The basics are that you play to the drummer; therefore all good bands tend to have someone behind the kit who has good time & feel - generally the drummer should dictate the pace of a song and assuming that he is playing a backbeat (i.e. rock, funk, etc.) then the bass player should lock onto the bass drum i.e. every bass drum beat should be covered by a note played by the bass[/b]

King Billy is, as ever, quite right! But then again, it’s pretty basic stuff…..
[/quote]

I absolutely and fundamentally DISAGREE with what you said. That is such an unmusical attitude that I can barely bring myself to want to attempt to understand why you would adopt such an approach. :S

'[b]i.e. every bass drum beat should be covered by a note played by the bass' [/b]This especially is sheer madness.

Edited March 11, 2012 by silddx

[Jayben]

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1331485461' post='1573527'] Space is also a 'note'. Space is paramount. Space is 'music'. Space is as essential a musical tool as any musical note. Make space your primary consideration. Think of space as oxygen, when it's not there you can't breathe, space helps music breathe. Make space the essence of your musical decisions. Here's an example of how I use space when I write a bass line. [url="http://soundcloud.com/kit-richardson/you-always-did"]http://soundcloud.co.../you-always-did[/url] [/quote]

Indeed. But at the same time I'm still always overcome with thoughts of 'Well, is that bass line REALLY right for the song?'

[Truckstop]

In reply to the OP:

Mate, in a few years everything you're doing right now will provide you with untold benefits! I know it can be boring and uninspiring, but your brain is still picking up those little nuances you're subconsciously missing. 4 years is nothing anyway; I've been playing heavily for 10 years, and I'm only just starting to feel comfortable and happy with my contributions to the songs in my band.

Practice makes perfect! Not only in the 'playing your instrument' sense, but also in the 'making a huge musical encyclopedia in your brain' kind of way too.

It is my belief that ALL musicians should have a good sense of timing, pace and rythym. It's not just the drummers responsibility.

Truckstop

[peteb]

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1331487506' post='1573587']
I absolutely and fundamentally DISAGREE with what you said. That is such an unmusical attitude that I can barely bring myself to want to attempt to understand why you would adopt such an approach. :S
[/quote]
[color=#222222]Because that is what works! Just listen to Led Zep, Rush, RHCP or any decent funk band - all different music but they all follow that basic principle[/color]
[color=#222222][/color]
[color=#222222]I am not disagreeing that the rhythm section should leave space to allow the music to breathe, but the basics are that the drummer drives the band and the bass player locks in with the drummer to create the groove…..[/color]

[Doddy]

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1331487239' post='1573578']
Some really bad advice here from a few people who really should know better!

The basics are that you play to the drummer; therefore all good bands tend to have someone behind the kit who has good time & feel - generally the drummer should dictate the pace of a song and assuming that he is playing a backbeat (i.e. rock, funk, etc.) then the bass player should lock onto the bass drum i.e. every bass drum beat should be covered by a note played by the bass

[/quote]

I agree with Nige....I completely disagree with this.
The bass does not have to cover evey bass drum beat,although it has it's place ...it can just as easily play off the
hi hat or any other part of the kit-in fact it can comfortably play off any instrument in the band.
Likewise,it isn't just the drummer who is responsible for dictating the pace.....it is everyone's responsibility. Sometimes
it's certain members more than others,but the drums should be able to drop out and things should still be grooving.

[xilddx]

[quote name='Jayben' timestamp='1331487955' post='1573595']
Indeed. But at the same time I'm still always overcome with thoughts of 'Well, is that bass line REALLY right for the song?'
[/quote]
'Right' is a strange concept in music. You need to listen and think and come to the conclusion that 'right' is highly subjective. If it sounds good to you and your band mates, then you could consider it to be 'right' I suppose.

[xilddx]

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1331488114' post='1573599']
[color=#222222]Because that is what works! Just listen to Led Zep, Rush, RHCP or any decent funk band - all different music but they all follow that basic principle[/color]

[color=#222222]I am not disagreeing that the rhythm section should leave space to allow the music to breathe, but the basics are that the drummer drives the band and the bass player locks in with the drummer to create the groove…..[/color]
[/quote]

Wrong.

And drummers do not drive the band. EVERYONE drives the band, including the audience.

[JTUK]

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1331465696' post='1573091']
Yes, that's a fair point and I know what you mean (I think). I may not be explaining myself very well. Perhaps the problem is that the drummer is following me rather than being in the driving seat? I've not experienced this before and it doesn't feel comfortable.
[/quote]

If the drummer can't set the pulse or tempo then he has no use whatsover.

[Bassdriver]

[quote name='Doddy' timestamp='1331488195' post='1573600']
I agree with Nige....I completely disagree with this.
The bass does not have to cover evey bass drum beat,although it has it's place ...it can just as easily play off the
hi hat or any other part of the kit-in fact it can comfortably play off any instrument in the band.
Likewise,it isn't just the drummer who is responsible for dictating the pace.....it is everyone's responsibility. Sometimes
it's certain members more than others,but the drums should be able to drop out and things should still be grooving.
[/quote]

Totally agree with this. The groove of the song dictates the tempo and it's up to the band to sit together in that groove. The groove exsists independent of which instruments are playing. You can drop the drums out and the rest of the band still carry the groove. the rest of the band can drop out and hopefully the drummer can do a tasteful solo that still carries the groove, even without the bass hitting the kicks.

[peteb]

[quote name='Doddy' timestamp='1331488195' post='1573600']
I agree with Nige....I completely disagree with this.
The bass does not have to cover evey bass drum beat,although it has it's place ...it can just as easily play off the
hi hat or any other part of the kit-in fact it can comfortably play off any instrument in the band.
Likewise,it isn't just the drummer who is responsible for dictating the pace.....it is everyone's responsibility. Sometimes
it's certain members more than others,but the drums should be able to drop out and things should still be grooving.
[/quote]
There are no hard and fast rules but the basics are to lock onto the bass drum when the drummer is playing a backbeat - the bass player may well play to the hi hat playing jazz, etc

However, every good band that I can think of tends to be driven by the drummer

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1331488705' post='1573622']
If the drummer can't set the pulse or tempo then he has no use whatsover.
[/quote]
Exactly!

Edited March 11, 2012 by peteb

[xilddx]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1331488705' post='1573622']
If the drummer can't set the pulse or tempo then he has no use whatsover.
[/quote]
Again, this is nonsense. Drums can be a fluidly played set of instruments used for a variety of musical purposes beyond keeping rhythm and tempo.

[peteb]

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1331489566' post='1573651']
Again, this is nonsense. Drums can be a fluidly played set of instruments used for a variety of musical purposes beyond keeping rhythm and tempo.
[/quote]
I give up....!!

[xilddx]

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1331489681' post='1573655']
I give up....!!
[/quote]

Why? What are you trying to convince us of? In one post you say the bass should cover every kick beat, then you say there are no hard rules and that that is only the basics?

I'm confused as to your message.

[JTUK]

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1331489566' post='1573651']
Again, this is nonsense. Drums can be a fluidly played set of instruments used for a variety of musical purposes beyond keeping rhythm and tempo.
[/quote]

If they can't hold time, then you have a train wreck.
There just is no excuse for it. and you can't have a groove with time all over the place.

[xilddx]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1331489999' post='1573665']
If they can't hold time, then you have a train wreck.
There just is no excuse for it. and you can't have a groove with time all over the place.
[/quote]
I didn't think we were talking about the drummer's ability to keep time. I thought we were discussing the role of the drums in a band setting and that they don't have to be there to 'keep time' or 'drive the band'.

[JTUK]

If a drummer can't drive the band..and I am not talking about ethereal pieces, then you'll have your train wreck again.

Of course, everyone else can have a piece of that action, but the drummer cannot opt out if that is what the songs needs.

[peteb]

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1331489853' post='1573661']
Why? What are you trying to convince us of? In one post you say the bass should cover every kick beat, then you say there are no hard rules and that that is only the basics?

I'm confused as to your message.
[/quote]
[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1331489999' post='1573665']
If they can't hold time, then you have a train wreck.
There just is no excuse for it. and you can't have a groove with time all over the place.
[/quote]
There are no hard and fast rules but the basics are that you play to the drummer

I've played with a fair few different drummers in pick up house bands at jam sessions at blues festivals, etc in the past couple of years - the ones with good time and a solid backbeat are easy to play with, the ones with good chops but all over the place are a bleedin' nightmare!

Edited March 11, 2012 by peteb

[peteb]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1331490364' post='1573674']
If a drummer can't drive the band..and I am not talking about ethereal pieces, then you'll have your train wreck again.

Of course, everyone else can have a piece of that action, but the drummer cannot opt out if that is what the songs needs.
[/quote]
this

[JTUK]

pet hate.. flowery drummers...!!

This is '1' and there are no guesses..!! it is where it is because that is where it was determined at the beginning of the track.
And I don't want the drummer bending to where he thinks everyone might be leaning, his job is to keep that track online with pulse and tempo and then you stand a chance of that groove that everyone says they want. If there is any letup from that..the groove has gone.. and you just have a rhythmic section.

So back to the OP...or the point that took us to this about the guy without a kick, just play with a constant heathbeat and it will be a start. I am not sure how drums get away with not using kick drunms for very long tho...??????

[WalMan]

[quote name='silddx' timestamp='1331486259' post='1573549']
There's confidence and CONFIDENCE. I have seen some dreadful bassists with CONFIDENCE.
[/quote]I've not seen you at one of our gigs N

I know some said that his session last week was a bit out there - turn off your phone etc - but the the basic premise was spot on I thought (which is taking it OT slightly perhaps).

The gist was[list]
[*]"Turn off your phone" you cant learn if you're fiddling with a phone or on the 'puter
[*]"Practice" and practice and practice
[*]"Listen" you can always learn stuff
[*]"Be confident in what you do" If you show up unsure it'll show. You need the building blocks, but then go for it.
[/list]
Illustrated (sort of) by getting one of the youngsters up from the audience to play his bass, bassically (d'you see what I did there) hitting the low E and getting a rather reserved bunch (rest of the audience) to stand up and shuffle rather uncomfortably as we Brits are inclined to do to the beat.

I [i][u]know[/u][/i] I am not as good as I wish I was, but deep down I also [u][i]know[/i][/u] that I am a lot better than I think I am. I just wish I could have the courage of my convictions to brazen it out a bit more, and to have done so when it really mattered years ago.

[kjb]

I think playing any instrument is kind of like building a house. If the foundations aren't there, then the house will be very shaky. The foundations in music are a knowledge of harmonic theory, rhythm and knowing your way around the bass, what notes are where.

With rhythm I don't just mean locking with the bass drum. I mean knowing how a whole note breaks down to a half note to a quarter note, to an eighth note to a sixteenth etc.

Too many people bypass this and just go straight for the fun part, playing .

Building a solid foundation in your playing will make you are far better, solid dependable and confident player.

[lee4]

[quote name='Gust0o' timestamp='1331486826' post='1573570']
This man is my idol. Indeed, he possibly is me - just in a few years time
[/quote]
At last,the answer to that age old question of "who am I?"!
I'm someone else!
I hope I'm better looking than me,and that I'll pay all my debts off!

[xilddx]

[quote name='WalMan' timestamp='1331491173' post='1573692']
I've not seen you at one of our gigs N
[/quote]
Saw it on youtube