Fixing up cheap basses

[Icarus_147]

[quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1331633010' post='1576058']
I guess the OP has to look for something well made, some of the really cheap stuff isn't well put together but some of them are surprisingly good.
[/quote]

Well the particular bass I saw was just that, something I saw, I didn't try it out. The idea of working on it is fairly recent though. I don't remember what it was, but I plan on going into he store and having a word with the guy, seeing what he suggests for a project like this. I'll report back when I'm in possession of whatever it is I end up getting. I'm actually interested to find out quite how much of a difference changing all the bits will make, and how much of it is purely down to wood and build quality.

Edit: I found [url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/200726022453?var=500050614928&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649"]this[/url] on Ebay, and I actually think it looks quite pretty. I realise it probably won't actually look like that, and the likelihood of it being any good is probably quite low, but still, I may consider it depending on how much I can afford to spend.

Edited March 13, 2012 by Icarus_147

[Muzz]

I've got a couple of Frankenfenders and one, my SX/MM P/J thing, is a really nice bass, period. I may have been lucky with the neck (possibly not, though, because I have a MM J-neck which is very nice, too), but with a new nut it feels every bit as good as Fenders I've owned, and the rest of the bits are at least Fender quality, if not better. I sold both my US P-Basses once I'd finished it, because I didn't need them any more - the homebuilt one was (for me) better than either. It isn't worth anywhere near what a US Fender is worth, but then it isn't for sale, and won't be. I buy basses now and again on a whim, and as everyone does, I'll be aware of the resale value, but that's not the point with this one - it's mine.

For the OP, if you're not going to play around with different necks, then you really need to try the bass you're thinking of buying, and if you like the feel and how it plays acoustically, then you're off on the right foot. Don't knock basswood, either - if it's good enough for a £1.5k MM Bongo... Pimping bridges, nut and tuners are all small positive changes which can be done, but for amplified sound the biggest one by a country mile is the pickup, pots and wiring. I'm not a believer in 'tonewood' as far as the end product (an amplified bass in a band setting) goes.

[Icarus_147]

[quote name='Muzz' timestamp='1331637607' post='1576177']
if you're not going to play around with different necks
[/quote]

Hmm, see, I'm not sure about that one. It's certainly something I've considered, but I'm not sure how hard they'd be to get right for a beginner. I'd like to though, I certainly imagine it'd be worth it. Are decent necks generally very expensive? Money isn't really a problem, but it'd be nice to have a couple different options without having to shell out hundreds of pounds.

[Ou7shined]

[quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1331633010' post='1576058']
Having just 'upgraded' from a Cort to a Fender Highway I'm curious over this. The Cort is very generic but shows excellent quality control. It is clearly CNC routed to great accuracy. It is so easy to set up, remains very stable in every way, it'll stay in tune for weeks and the action once set just sits there. Even the timbers in the neck look like someone took care selecting them. It plays like a dream.

The Fender has poor finish, things like frets not properly filed and so on the machine heads and bridge lack quality, the nut had to be re-formed. The neck has been made out of some less decent maple than the Cort. It is tricky to set up and drifts out of setting easily, at gigs I have to re-tune if I move into another room and again at half time. Even then it can be slightly out after an hours playing. The only plus is the sound, it is so much nicer than the Cort.

Given that the Cort has superior tuners,neck and bridge I'm wondering how much better it would sound with a decent pickup. The body is basswood I think. The Fender is ash. What else is there that contributes to the tone (given that I use the tone controls on the amp not the guitar?

I guess the OP has to look for something well made, some of the really cheap stuff isn't well put together but some of them are surprisingly good.
[/quote]

+1 Corts make very good donor basses.

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='Icarus_147' timestamp='1331636191' post='1576147']
Well the particular bass I saw was just that, something I saw, I didn't try it out. The idea of working on it is fairly recent though. I don't remember what it was, but I plan on going into he store and having a word with the guy, seeing what he suggests for a project like this. I'll report back when I'm in possession of whatever it is I end up getting. I'm actually interested to find out quite how much of a difference changing all the bits will make, and how much of it is purely down to wood and build quality.

Edit: I found [url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/200726022453?var=500050614928&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649"]this[/url] on Ebay, and I actually think it looks quite pretty. I realise it probably won't actually look like that, and the likelihood of it being any good is probably quite low, but still, I may consider it depending on how much I can afford to spend.

[/quote]

This line are in Argos, I have a strat by them, with a grim reaper on, the fretwork was bad with sharp edges, but may have been due to aggressive air conditioning drying out the board, filing them off an feeding it loads of oil sorted it. Other than that seems OK.

[Muzz]

[quote name='Icarus_147' timestamp='1331639314' post='1576239']
Hmm, see, I'm not sure about that one. It's certainly something I've considered, but I'm not sure how hard they'd be to get right for a beginner. I'd like to though, I certainly imagine it'd be worth it. Are decent necks generally very expensive? Money isn't really a problem, but it'd be nice to have a couple different options without having to shell out hundreds of pounds.
[/quote]

I got mine from EBay - Mighty Mite ones are great quality for the £80-100 you'll pay for them. They're a standard Fender sized heel, too, so as long as the neck pocket on the body is close to Fender specs, you could end up with a really good fit. IMHO, the neck pocket fit is a big influence on the feel (resonance) of the instrument. There's threads on here with pics about fitting and shimming necks, too. Going upmarket, or for just a great way to kill half an hour with bass-porn, have a look at warmoth.com - more necks and bodies than you can shake a stick at, and they're far better quality than bog-stock Fender stuff.

[Icarus_147]

[quote name='Muzz' timestamp='1331647699' post='1576504']
Going upmarket, or for just a great way to kill half an hour with bass-porn, have a look at warmoth.com - more necks and bodies than you can shake a stick at, and they're far better quality than bog-stock Fender stuff.
[/quote]

Ah, yeah, I've seen that site before. It looks awesome. Part of what inspired me to look into this, I'd like to be able to build something pretty much from scratch one day.

And thanks for the tips, I'm sure they'll come in pretty handy =)

[Icarus_147]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1331645798' post='1576448']
This line are in Argos, I have a strat by them, with a grim reaper on, the fretwork was bad with sharp edges, but may have been due to aggressive air conditioning drying out the board, filing them off an feeding it loads of oil sorted it. Other than that seems OK.
[/quote]

Awesome, certianly gonna consider that then. I still like the pink one though. Goddamn, I am so bad at making decisions. I nearly had a breakdown when I went into Shake-a-holic the other week, I had to get the girl to recommend something.

[Conan]

To the OP...

I see you are in Newcastle. If you like, you could pop round and try my "Fecker" jazz bass. I bought it as a no-name J-copy a year or so ago. It plays REALLY well. The only upgrade it has is a pair of Wizard Hammer pickups. I love it. Not only does it play beautifully, but it now sounds fantastic too! I also make a mean cappuccino

Bass cost £100. Pickups £60.

I now also have a Fender Geddy Lee Jazz. The neck is very different. Not necessarily better, but different in that it is so slim and has far less lacquer on it.

I love both basses. Does it feel or sound like there is a £700 difference in price? No. Not even close!!

The key with buying a "cheap" bass (which in itself is a subjective term!) is to play it. Some cheapo basses play very well but (as others have already said) are let down by poor quality parts and sound cheap.

Replacing the neck is pointless IMO, as it is the neck that makes a good one playable. Replacing the body is also pretty pointless at this price point. I'm also not convinced about this "tonewoods" argument either.... to me, the wood of the body is there to look good. If it is going to be painted, what does it matter? The pickups have a far bigger influence on the sound anyway. As do the STRINGS!! Everyone forgets about the strings and rushes to upgrade this and that part. Try some decent strings first!

Remember too that any bass body can be repainted in whatever colour or finish you choose! And if you are struggling to do it yourself, the Bass Doc is local to you too!! Have a go!

[Conan]

[quote name='Muzz' timestamp='1331637607' post='1576177'] Pimping bridges, nut and tuners are all small positive changes which can be done, but for amplified sound the biggest one by a country mile is the pickup, pots and wiring. I'm not a believer in 'tonewood' as far as the end product (an amplified bass in a band setting) goes.
[/quote]

You are talkin' my crack-a-lackin' language!!

[Icarus_147]

Haha, thanks for the offer man. I think I'm gonna go ahead and and get myself that bass I linked earlier. Gonna go somewhere and see if I can try it out first, just to see if it's salvageable at all. I got in touch with the manufacturers and apparently it's a model copy of a Fender, so sourcing parts should be a breeze.

Edit: That is of course if I can find one, which I'm not sure I can. Seems to be an Argos online exclusive, so... Yeah.

Edited March 14, 2012 by Icarus_147

[Conan]

[quote name='Icarus_147' timestamp='1331765572' post='1578707']
Haha, thanks for the offer man.[/quote]

Well the offer is still there - as it is to any North-East based Basschatters who fancy a play!

[brensabre79]

Buying £100 worth of parts and making an instrument yourself should yield better results than a £100 Bass. The thing that often drives the price tag up, and something a lot of people forget is the amount of time taken. Fender knockoffs are an excellent example of the disparity in pricing for what essentially is the same item.

Sure a £1,500 Fender will have the best quality timbers and hardware (in theory) but the reason for the price tag is that on a MIA Fender you are paying American wages to the people who spend time putting the thing together. By an equivalent MIM and the quality of materials may drop a bit but the hourly rate of the people building it drops considerably. Take a look at the ones made in the far east and the man hours drop again (as does the quality of materials) all of these mass produced instruments are designed to a budget that includes man hours.

If you buy yourself a ready made swamp ash body and a nice maple neck of eBay or wherever you'll pay a small premium for ordering a small quantity, but where you will save money is doing the work of putting it together yourself. Depending on how good you are at this the result could be on a par with the £1,500 Fender from less than £500 worth of bits - then again it could be an absolute dog.

If you're really adventurous you can buy the raw timber and start from scratch, but by the time you've tooled up and spent weeks / months making the thing you will have spent plenty of time and money. The people who do this also want to be paid for their time (they have to make a living too!) - hence a handmade bass will cost you plenty, but you can have exactly what you want.

If you buy a ready-made bass for £100, remember that a proportion of that cost is for the time of someone building it. So the materials will have cost far less, and the quality of them should reflect this.

[Conan]

[quote name='brensabre79' timestamp='1331816129' post='1579313']
If you buy a ready-made bass for £100, remember that a proportion of that cost is for the time of someone building it. So the materials will have cost far less, and the quality of them should reflect this.
[/quote]

True - but because materials can vary, and humans are not machines, the end result will (and does) vary. Fender are well known for this variability and the cheap basses show it too. That's why it's so important that you try the actual bass that you want to buy, as two made from the same materials by the same person may be different. I've played awful Fenders and brilliant copies costing under £200. It's all a bit of a lottery really. But it happens in pretty much all manufactured goods, so I don't know why we are surprised...

[muttley]

Does the end result have to be a Fender-a-like? Surely there are lots of other inexpensive basses out there that would make a good starting point (eg Aria, Ibanez, Tanglewood etc).

[Icarus_147]

[quote name='muttley' timestamp='1331892816' post='1580416']
Does the end result have to be a Fender-a-like? Surely there are lots of other inexpensive basses out there that would make a good starting point (eg Aria, Ibanez, Tanglewood etc).
[/quote]

Well, no it doesn't, and I do quite like different looking things, hence my refusal to start out on a sh*tty P bass copy. I actually own one of the Ibanez GSR190s, the Jumpstart basses. It was a very nice starter bass, but, now that I've got a little variety, I wouldn't mind having a P bass so much. I actually played a Tanglewood with my band for a few weeks while my Ibanez was out of action with a broken machine head. If I recall correctly I recorded with it too. It was an alright bass, but I doubt I'd spend the money on one. I own a Tanglewood Evolution acoustic though and that thing is beautiful.

Part of me toyed with the idea of maybe trying to do something with a cheap BC Rich even, but I'm not sure. Not too keen on how the cheap models look, but I could always change that I suppose.

I just quite like the look of this bass really, and it's cheap, which is the main thing. I'm not aiming to have a giggable instrument. It'd be a nice bonus, but as long as I can improve how it sounds and plays to [i]some[/i] degree I'll be happy enough. I mostly just want to be sure I can change the parts to my liking and not break it in the process.

Edited March 16, 2012 by Icarus_147

[muttley]

Sorry, should have read your sig . The reason for my post was I came across one of the low-end Ibbys at a local auction house (poss a GSR190 or 200 or similar) and it seemed a lot of bass for the 60-odd quid it went for.

[Icarus_147]

Yeah, they're great guitars. I mean, of course, they're nothing special, after all, they're entry level basses, but for the price, they're great, I still gigged with it for about ten months before it got put out of action and eventually replaced by my Flying V a couple of months later. Mine is one of the older ones, and as I was fitting the new E string (the one previous snapped right before a practice, luckily my guitar player had the Tanglewood), a couple of the teeth on the gears snapped off. Same story as always, half decent guitar let down by bad parts. It's not perfect, by any means, but I still use it a lot to practice with, the V is awfully impractical to sit down with.

[Andyjr1515]

Entering the fray, have a look at my website ajrguitarmods.co.uk (and no - I'm not a dealer, I'm just an enthusiastic improver who tends to keep most of the the basses and 6 strings I do because I like them too much!)

You have to go into this with your eyes open:[list]
[*]Entry level guitars from high end suppliers (Epiphone; Squier; Ibanez) are generally SUPERBLY made compared with how things used to be and compared with cheap guitar manufacturers who do not deal in high end. Reason - they sell entry level to catch a lifetime future obsession; they cannot afford their reputations to be damaged with association with poor quality
[*]The economy is usually with the pups, the hardware, the strings, etc
[*]Thus, an upgraded one of these will be a great great guitar or bass
[*]The Jaguar Bass (mine) is one in point - underneath it is a bog standard Squier
[/list]
BUT
[list]
[*]Good hardware, pups, etc bought retail costs much more than the same items incorporated into a new, bulk-bought major brand guitar
[*]Therefore, you can build a guitar that is very giggable and exactly how you want it but it will cost pretty much the same as the next level up of a new one.
[/list]
Having said that, I have some people I've done guitars for who are delighted with something that cost significantly less than they could have imagined and looked and sounded a million dollars. The ESP/LTD 6 string on the website is a bog standard with upgraded trem and fancy pickups and wiring. It cost me about £450 all told and I guarantee it would knocks spots off guitars £2000+....but i'd probably not get even the £450 if I tried to sell it.

So, as they always say, it depends what you are trying to achieve. Most satisfying thing to do, mind...

[Icarus_147]

[quote name='Andyjr1515' timestamp='1331919608' post='1580975']
So, as they always say, it depends what you are trying to achieve. Most satisfying thing to do, mind...
[/quote]

Some very good points there, thanks! =)

And yeah, like I say, this is entirely just to get my eye in with, I don't intend or expect to have a giggable instrument by the end of it, although it would be nice if that were to happen. And my main bass is an Epiphone V, all stock parts, and I love it to bits. Brilliantly made, and tough as nails. I would look at refitting something like it, or a Squier, but I only work part time at Greggs, so once my board and general living costs are taken out of my wages, I only really have £30/40 to play with a week, and if I'm going to be sinking a lot of money into parts, it seems like a better idea to get something stupidly cheap. I realise it means the quality of the finished thing will be lower and stuff, but like I say, it's purely for practice more than anything.

I ended up ordering that bass I linked earlier in the thread a few hours ago. Well, not that exact one, it sold before I could get it, but another for about the same price. Excited to see what mess I've gotten myself into. At least it looks pretty!

[brensabre79]

[quote name='Andyjr1515' timestamp='1331919608' post='1580975'][list]
[*]Therefore, you can build a guitar that is very giggable and exactly how you want it but it will cost pretty much the same as the next level up of a new one.
[/list]
[/quote]
But you can get lots of bits used. My Sunburst bitsa is a lovely S/H Squier neck (£70) S/H MIM body (£85) S/H Badass Bridge (£40) Wizard P/u's (£70) S/H Gotoh Tuners (£30) the rest of the bits and bobs came to about £55. I have to say it plays better than my MIA Jazz (which was about 3x that cost) and the hardware is better quality too.

Its good to experiment with the cheapest bits you can find, as long as you know the shortcomings to expect from cheap hardware etc. The above bass is the product of years worth of what I call Triggers Broom guitar building - 3 different bodys, 2 necks, 2 bridges etc. to get to where i am, and along the way selling the bits I don't need. Its all about recognising the weak link in the chain.

Sure the resale value is practically £0, I accepted this a long time ago but I'm keeping this bass - along with the other one I've made almost entirely from 70s bits. To an earlier post - this is why I've stuck with Fender-ish, go into the realms of ibanez, peavey or whoever and the bits are not standardised so parts become harder to source (and fit!).

Good luck with the project Icarus, I'm sure you'll be pleased with the result eventually!

[Paul S]

+1 for going secondhand. Doesn't hurt so much when I cock it up and have to do it all again, but I guess that is half the fun.

My #1 gigging bass is a Fender Precision Lyte that I bought unseen - when it arrived the electrics were faulty and a previous owner had given it an appalling refinish. My initial reaction was to move it on at a huge loss and get one in better nick but I decided in the end to turn this into a bit of a project. Having cut my teeth on a couple of other cheapies I stripped this down, repainted it (badly, but better than it was), changed the headstock back to clear rather than painted, added a new decal, put in a J. East pre-amp (bought from siddlx) and it is now my go-to bass - lightweight, sounds the business, huge range of tones. Resale value is probably rubbish but I love playing it and bonded with it after all the malarky getting it sorted out.

[mr carpet]

sounds to me like your the type of person who would enjoy doing it up. Im one of them too.
I bought a second hand squier p bass for 70 quid 3 years ago and after a while realised the pickups where crap , so I bought some seymour duncans , I also scraped of all the cream paint on the body and sanded it down , I pulled all the frets out one drunken night , then put them back in after realising my names not Jaco , besides it sounded like a wale song.
Ive broke the truss rod also , so I need a new neck.
But in the course of all this butchery I have learnt a lot . I replaced the pots and am pretty good at wiring it up now . I know that pulling the frets out is bad. and truss rods should be aproched with more caution.
Iv really enjoyed all my tinkering and although all that will actuely remain of the original bass will be a block of wood , a bridge ,string tree and maybe the tuners ,im very fond of my bass now .
I think buying a cheap bass and learning what to do and not do is worth it.
you wouldnt want to inflict that type of learning curve on a expensive item.
It may sound like all Iv done is f*^%k up a guitar , wich is true , but then I put it back together again.
the biggest improvement I ever made was replacing the pickups , it realy made it sound great , all the little personalisations like scratchplate and knobs are inexpensive and verry rewarding.
I plan to make a experimental upright bass out of the old neck and any surplus bits maybe a bit of wardrobe too.
so in summary , I think you can make a nice bass out of a cheep one , and youl also end up with a few spare parts , a warm satisfiying glow in your belly and a few bob in your pocket.
if that doesnt inspire you then I give up.
best of luck.

[Andyjr1515]

[quote name='mr carpet' timestamp='1339772022' post='1694129']
I pulled all the frets out one drunken night , then put them back in after realising my names not Jaco , besides it sounded like a wale song.
[/quote]

I think we've all done that at one time or another...

Let me clarify. For GREAT FUN - there's nothing at all as satisfying as pulling apart basses and improving them . For OWN USE there's nothing as cost effective as taking a (usually) excellent quality entry level and turning it into a pro-sounding and looking guitar for less than the cost of a car service . For PROFIT, tread carefully and moderate your expectations

[mr carpet]

[quote name='Andyjr1515' timestamp='1339776829' post='1694249']

I think we've all done that at one time or another...

[/quote]
Thanks man , glad to know others have similar delusions of grandeur too
trial and error ,best way to learn for me. plus it drips and oozes this elusive "mojo" stuff now my grubby mitts have manhandled every single bit of it.