Caffe Americano in Swansea, Wales... terrible management :(

[BigBassBob]

Hi guys,

First off, I'd like to say I'm not a particularly confrontational person and I'm not one to bitch to the world about my frustrations but a gig I did last night has left my blood boiling and I'd like to share my story, even if it's just to vent some steam. (And I guess this is to give a heads up to any musicians in the UK who may get bookings there.)

I play in a three piece blues band which was booked to play a venue called "Caffe Americano". It's a small coffee bar that likes to advertise its trade as being a live music cafe with food:

http://www.americanojazzcaffe.com/

(There's pictures in the gallery of artists playing there... they do not usually put musicians where they are in those pictures... see the picture with the piano hanging from the ceiling with the door to the left? That's where they place their entertainment.)

We've played there several times in the past, and each time we've struggled with space issues. Namely, this "venue" places its entertainment at the end of the room (which in itself is incredibly cramped, especially with a full house.) While it has been problematic setting up our gear and finding space we've successfully managed to squeeze in in the past. Last night was a different story.

On arrival I find our drummer is already stressed out; he's unloaded his gear, the place is packed with people to the point of it being difficult to move and where we usually play the bar staff have left a pile of tables and chairs. They didn't offer to help so we took the initiative in moving them. That said, even when we'd cleared the space there was barely enough room to put the drums and bass gear up, let alone the guitar gear and PA.

It took a lot of patience but we managed to set most of our equipment up save for the PA and mics. At this point our singer is stood with his headstock touching the wall, his calves pressed against the bass drum and a table at his knees. There was no space at all to fit the PA, his pedals and mic stand in.

So he starts to move the table in front when an angry patron confronts him:

"What do you think you're doing?"

"I just need to move this table, sorry."

"We've had these tables booked for TWO MONTHS!"

Things begin to get heated so we speak to the management. Apparently they'd booked a row of tables directly in front of us for a party of 16 people who wanted meals. Nonchalantly they tell us "deal with it".

At this point the drummer and I are debating whether or not to pack down. Our guitarist turns to us and says "look guys, let's keep this professional... if we can't set mics up we'll just do it instrumentally." We begrudgingly agree.

So our guitarist plugs in and the first chord he hits is a loud one... I'm talking bridge pickup on a strat, too much volume, way too much mids and top end... a real ear bleeder of a chord. He turns down and tunes his sound in. I do the same.

Next thing we know the group of 16 get up and leave. The management come up to us and say with a great deal of venom "you just cost us £500 worth of orders." I'm itching to ask why they would book a band when they've already booked practically a third of the space out to a group of people wanting a quiet meal but I hold my tongue.

We still haven't managed to fit all of the kit in this tiny space yet but with that group gone we manage to.

Roll on 9:15pm and the management approach us again.

"I don't know why the hell you haven't set up yet but hurry up and play something!"

I begin to explain the difficulty of fitting the equipment into less space that it can actually fit in when he cuts me off;

"No! You've had just as much space now as you've ever had. I don't care what you have to say, just get on with it!"

We do our best to set up quickly and break into our set. Within half an hour a drunk stumbles into our PA which falls off a table and hangs from the side by its power cable. Another patron comes over and puts it back for us (we did thank him over the mic too.) That and another drunk stamped on my pedal board.

Yet despite our frustrations and tension we actually do a pretty tight, rocking set; the patrons enjoyed it and somehow so did we.


The night comes to a close and we begin packing down. We step outside once most of the kit is packed up and chill out over a coffee and cigarette. Then our guitarist goes to sort payment out...

I do not catch all of the conversation but essentially the venue refused to pay us a single penny as apparently we had "cost them service and damaged their reputation." While I can empathise with them I am perplexed as to the way we were treated.

Also... it wouldn't have been such a bitter pill to swallow if the three of us didn't have to drive three hours to get to the venue and back. We didn't receive fuel money and to sum it up, the three of us are now out of pocket for eight hours of frustration and did a free gig (taking into account driving, setting up/down, playing and dealing with the venue.)

The three of us kept our cool. The drummer and I packed up and went home while our guitarist decided to spend the night at a local hotel with his girlfriend. He said he's going to try to deal with the venue today and see if he can get something out of them but he doesn't seem hopeful.

Thanks for hearing me out guys

[Adrenochrome]

Small claims court fella, should an easy win.

[paul_5]

Musician's Union are perfect for this sort of thing.

[Johngh]

If the owner had come up to me with that attitude after giving us no space, I'd have packed up and gone home. Simple

[Doddy]

[quote name='paul_5' timestamp='1331491333' post='1573698']
Musician's Union are perfect for this sort of thing.
[/quote]
Depends if it's contracted or not....and if you're all members.

[thepurpleblob]

Polite letter. Nasty letter. Small claims court.

Nothing to do with you that they "double booked" the venu.

I've only ever had problems vaguely similar to that. It usually centres around the manager who books the bands and the duty manager not speaking to each other or somesuch. Again, hardly your fault. It's tempting to say "you should have just walked" but on the night you want to do the professional thing and play the gig. I have asked a venue before now "look, if you don't really want us to play that's fine. Just pay the fee and we'll go!!"

[mrtcat]

Lets all book tables there each weekend under different names and not turn up. Childish? Yup.

[daz]

Sorry mate but you should have left, when you saw what they had left you to deal with on your own. IE: The 20 inch space between a wall and a tableful of arseoles.

I mean you really never saw it coming ? I'm sorry but certainly not trying to come over all clairvoyant, but I knew long before I got to it that they had refused to pay you.

Edit: Isn't there some sort of website where you can report venues who act badly and/or withhold payment ? So that other bands don't get caught out, and so that they are encouraged not to do it again?

Edited March 11, 2012 by daz

[Gust0o]

I would have walked, all told. Still, you soldiered on, so fair play to you.

The small claim's court process will easily sort out the non-payment. All the risk is on their side of the case.

Still, another one named and shamed. Win the case and drop them a link to this thread - I'd be embarassed if I were quite so sh*t with my own business.

[Gust0o]

Ha, I did note on their Facebook, that they had to post for themselves that they were the "by far the best live music cafe in the world!" - the true sign of a tosser.

[BigBassBob]

Thank you very much for your feedback guys

In all honestly my gut was screaming at me to pack up and leave before we finished setting up but I stuck through it as I trusted our guitarist's judgement (he's been doing solo bookings there for a while and this is the first time something like this has kicked off.)

Unfortunately none of the band are union members and all payment was settled verbally so I don't think we have much to stand on legally. In all honesty, I'd just like them to cover transport costs but from the way they dealt with us I doubt we'll see a penny... and in turn I'd like to let other musicians out there know how we were treated.

Is there a venue blacklist sticky or anything in that vein on this board?

[thepurpleblob]

[quote name='BigBassBob' timestamp='1331496977' post='1573837']
Unfortunately none of the band are union members and all payment was settled verbally so I don't think we have much to stand on legally. In all honesty, I'd just like them to cover transport costs but from the way they dealt with us I doubt we'll see a penny... and in turn I'd like to let other musicians out there know how we were treated.
[/quote]

I'm going to sound like a complete b*****d here... but if you let them away with it then you cheapen playing such gigs for all musicians. IANAL, but it's incredibly unlikely that they could muster a sensible defence against a claim. What were you doing there? Playing for free? Do you normally play for free? Anyway, the small claims process requires that you act reasonably. You write to the boss tomorrow explaining what happened calmly and ask for your pay. If nothing happens you write again explaining that you intend to take legal action. Then you do. However, they'll probably just pay.

Also, I seem to recall that the MU are interested to hear about non-paying venues even if you are not a member.

Edited March 11, 2012 by thepurpleblob

[Austin7]

Legal action seems to be the only answer to this. The way they acted was outrageous. Just unbelievable.

[gjones]

In a situation like that I always go to the manager and get them to move people. If they don't move people then my band doesn't play - that's up to them (but we still get paid). If they can't move people there and then we're happy to wait until they go and then set up and play until closing time - but we still get the money promised.

[jakenewmanbass]

You had a contract, that it was verbal does not matter, you fulfilled it. They failed to fulfill it. Small claims court, join the union now and they will deal with it for you.
Most importantly the manager should learn not to treat people in this way.

[CBbass]

I would have taken the table refusing to be moved as a warning and left there, however, I respect you for playing. The part which pisses me off which happens fairly often is when they refuse to pay you and yet don't tell you that until the gig is over. Arseholes.

[silentbob]

[quote name='CBbass' timestamp='1331506067' post='1574033']
The part which pisses me off which happens fairly often is when they refuse to pay you and yet don't tell you that until the gig is over. Arseholes.
[/quote]

This. I would go back with my band, run up a massive food and bar bill, then at the end of the night tell them you aren't paying because the food was sh*te.

[gafbass02]

This. It was despicable. How dare they allow you to play, use your services and then refuse to pay for them. Disgusting. We need a highly visible blacklist for places like this.

[quote name='silentbob' timestamp='1331512582' post='1574113']


This. I would go back with my band, run up a massive food and bar bill, then at the end of the night tell them you aren't paying because the food was sh*te.
[/quote]

[charic]

[quote name='gafbass02' timestamp='1331539005' post='1574208']
We need a highly visible blacklist for places like this.
[/quote]

I was thinking the same. Just a list of bad venues with links to relevant threads. Keep the detail out of the blacklist thread itself.

[franzbassist]

[quote name='jakenewmanbass' timestamp='1331499225' post='1573868']
You had a contract, that it was verbal does not matter, you fulfilled it. They failed to fulfill it. Small claims court, join the union now and they will deal with it for you.
Most importantly the manager should learn not to treat people in this way.
[/quote]

This ^^^

[CBbass]

[quote name='charic' timestamp='1331546357' post='1574335']
I was thinking the same. Just a list of bad venues with links to relevant threads. Keep the detail out of the blacklist thread itself.
[/quote]

It's a nice idea but isn't it a little libellous? Anyway, see if you have a case in a small clams court... if not then go there, rack up a bill of the amount due and say it was awful service + food and refuse to pay .

[charic]

[quote name='CBbass' timestamp='1331549109' post='1574401']
It's a nice idea but isn't it a little libellous?
[/quote]

How so? If I knew a place was rubbish to play for I wouldn't send my mates bands there too play. Why shouldn't I discourage/warn them so they can atleast be prepared beforehand?

[Low End Bee]

[quote name='charic' timestamp='1331546357' post='1574335']
I was thinking the same. Just a list of bad venues with links to relevant threads. Keep the detail out of the blacklist thread itself.
[/quote]

Trouble is...

I met a band last year who completely slated a venue we've played a few times something rotten. The venue has a few niggly faults but they're OK people and we had good experiences there and got a few quid out of it.
The band were nice people too. I presume they got on each others wrong side or it was a bad day for one/both of them.
Anyway. The experience described was a million miles away from what we've experienced there.
If I hadn't played the place before and since I would have taken their word and missed out on a good gig.
Sometimes it's subjective I guess?

Edited March 12, 2012 by Low End Bee

[Roland Rock]

Disgraceful, unnecessary, I've never heard of such a thing ...............I mean really? a blues bass player with a pedal board??!!?

Re. the non-payment, I sympathize. We've had a landlord refuse payment purely on the grounds that we brought up a 'guest' singer to sing on one of the encore songs without prior agreement! Small claims court, or the threat of, will sort them out. Good luck.

[charic]

[quote name='Low End Bee' timestamp='1331549717' post='1574425']
Trouble is...

I met a band last year who completely slated a venue we've played a few times something rotten. The venue has a few niggly faults but they're OK people and we had good experiences there and got a few quid out of it.
The band were nice people too. I presume they got on each others wrong side or it was a bad day for one/both of them.
Anyway. The experience described was a million miles away from what we've experienced there.
If I hadn't played the place before and since I would have taken their word and missed out on a good gig.
Sometimes it's subjective I guess?
[/quote]

Then we could have a scoring system instead perhaps? Like with the couriers?