flyfisher Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Whatever the rights and wrongs of this whole sorry tale, it's proof that whenever things escalate into a public row then neither party is likely to come out smelling of roses. Trial by media is bad enough, but trial by a tribal Internet forum is even less edifying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bassace Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 There are always two stories to each dispute. Trying to figure the merits of each party's allegations is the hard bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 I think this should be resolved by thumb war Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassman Steve Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Good plan, we can get Mark King to represent the bass players!! :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 In the red corner representing bassists everywhere for the thumb war: In the blue corner representing restaurants everywhere in the thumb war: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 [quote name='Bassman Steve' timestamp='1339751996' post='1693639'] Frankly, the fact (by their own reproduction of the complaint letter - whoever wrote it) that they provided their best (known) customers of the evening with inadequate tables right in front of a band tells me all I want to know of the respect this place evidently has for its customers (and, by implication, everyone else). If it treats them so shabbily then I am rather less inclined to weight my conclusions about all this in their favour, I reckon they need the restaurant inspector!! [/quote] Quite. A party for a birthday gathering - so obviously stick them on a table right where the band will be playing, so they can`t hear a thing all through their evening, which has been booked for a considerable time. Unless of course, that is what the customer had requested, and then it makes perfect sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Seems like unprofessionalism and immaturity on both sides to me. Situations like this should never happen, and if diplomacy and consideration are not enough to resolve what seem like simple issues on this particular night, then someone is probably being an arsehole. Two stand out issues for me (if the two parties are to be believed).[list] [*]A band should NOT be moving an establishment's furniture around without their consent, very irritating and disrespectful. [*]The establishment should be treating its customers MUCH better with regard to the accommodation of their party of 16. Sounds like very poor judgement of table and seating arrangements. [/list] Also, the guitarist is well out of order for blasting an ear shattering chord in the soundcheck when an audience are there, Jesus, how amateurish. Hope that helps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Def right about moving things around - if either of my bands need something moving, we ask the people running the venue to do it. That way, no-one can get the hump when it is moved, as it`s sanctioned by those in charge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 (edited) Its really a case of a double booking isnt it. Yes it all got out of hand on the night, but if the table was so close to the band as reported here then the reality is there isnt space in the venue for both band and dinners as laid out in the venue. People eating in a group of 16, who have come a long way to see each other dont want to be sat right in front of a blues band (ie a couple of feet away), becasue we all know they would want to be able to talk to each other. So who didnt check they diary before booking them and explain that they would be right in the 'line of fire' of the band? In fact if the letter of complaint is accurate you could only accommodate the 16 guests on stools, they were unhappy before the band even were taken into consideration. Very sloppy! And if you are booking the band, do you not check to see if there is room in the venue for the band, and that the band are not going to have to pass straight through the venue with their kit to set up and soundcheck at a time likely to disturb the guests? Let alone have enough roomn to function properly. One of these two events had to happen first and the other should have been prevented or forewarned of it as a result. Or the venue management can expect there to be issues on the night, resulting in unhappy customers, unhappy bands, unhappy staff, reduced takings, and a high likelihood of the events being described from one point of view or another or both on the internet. This is the age we live in. So the root cause of the issue is a failure to understand the requirements of the two parties attempting to attend the venue (albeit fo different reasons) at the same time, and see how that could not work out without some prior thought - you would have done well to ensure that the band knew what was happening, that they could be told to turn up to load in and soundcheck early (before the tables were set up). And that can not be the fault of the band, or the guests..... Oh, and a poor effort at amateurish legalise never ever scared anyone on this forum yet to my knowledge, but it does make you look like a t*t. Finally, did the band play the gigs they were contracted to? Yes, or no? If they did, then they are in fact owed money at this point. If your sloppy organisation cost you money, thats actually irrelevant isnt it? Edited June 15, 2012 by 51m0n Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 [quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1339765040' post='1693970'] Its really a case of a double booking isnt it. *** If they did, then they are in fact owed money at this point. If your sloppy organisation cost you money, thats actually irrelevant isnt it? [/quote] and 51mon with the first thumb down, can the restaurants recover from this stunning blow... Over to Fumps live at the scene... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ian Savage Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 [quote name='JakeBrownBass' timestamp='1339743168' post='1693491'] Hmm, this entire story is one persons word against the other. I don't think we can dismiss what Americano is saying just because the OP is a member here. If they have issues that they still need to sort out, they should do it. Just not on a public forum where it's going to end up like a playground fight. [/quote] This ^ [quote name='Mr Fretbuzz' timestamp='1339750662' post='1693618'] +1. I might have inferred it in jest but agree that my Bass playing ought to be reported to the Police :-D [/quote] Has Sting quit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
americano Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Hi, Thanks for taking the time to respond, we are not looking to engage in an argument. We appreciate that as band members yourselves that it must be easy to empathise with this situation, but it should be said that we do market ourselves as a small intimate venue and have had many successful evenings where bands have appreciated this and worked with us to create the atmosphere that we want. We have live music at least 4 times a week and this is the only situation that has led to this level of Band dissatisfaction & customer complaint. Unfortunately on this occasion the situation has escalated and has led to a member of the band venting in public, the band member has chosen to vent in anger which is essentially what happened to him on the evening in question when having to deal with complaints from our customers about his attitude. We could go back and fore all day arguing over who is telling the truth but I don't think it will achieve anything. What we will say is that the following day the band member who stayed in our apartment received payment in full as per terms agreed. (to the person who insinuates that we are accusing bigbassbob of lying, he at no point in his original post makes claim to have been the person collecting the money the following day) I have a feeling too that due to the nature of an internet forum this could go on and on, we would prefer for this thread to be either locked or deleted, at the end of the day it is his word against our. We have a copy of the complaint letter from the group of diners in question regarding his attitude and feel that it is unfairly damaging our reputation as a venue contracting bands to play at our venue, this is clearly evident in some of the posts. Regards, Americano's Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 On the balance of probability, I reckon you both f***ed up, and could have handled the situation better. Can't see how your rep's been unfairly damaged any more than the band's. You seem to have mostly good reports on the usual internet sites, apart from the state of your toilets, so why not leave it at that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Fretbuzz Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 I think local bass players ought to have a free meal at Americanos for the sever distress it's caused us today :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 (edited) Seems to me we should have a look at the floorspace in question: Apart from the fact that everybody in the pix seems to be having a good time, it strikes me that this is a [i]not[/i] a big venue. Long but very shallow - maybe 15' deep from front wall to back wall. So I'd imagine that trying to fit a full band in alongside a party of 16 would be a bit of a stretch. Myself, I'd have reservations about taking a full-size, loud-ish band in there under any circs. Also, the front wall seems mostly to be glass - I'd imagine that sound levels in there could require serious compromise. Looking at the venue's gig list, it seems mostly to be singers with acoustics, so a 'leccy guitarist at full beans might be a bit scary. TBH, this sounds like one of those situations where everyone starts with the best intentions but a wheel comes off and tempers flare. Least said soonest mended, IMO. [color=#ffffff].[/color] Edited June 15, 2012 by skankdelvar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomE Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Got to say fair play to you for posting on here. Most of us realise that there are two sides to every story. I have no idea what happened - and i don't really care - but wanted to say that you have earned a bit of kudos from me for trying to put your view across. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 [quote name='Bassman Steve' timestamp='1339770443' post='1694095'] ... but not on a band night!!! :-) For what it's worth I blame the guitarist - but that's on the basis that he's a guitarist. [/quote] Blame everyone who's not a bassist, on the basis they're not bassists Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CPBass Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 [quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1339770337' post='1694091'] Seems to me we should have a look at the floorspace in question: Apart from the fact that everybody in the pix seems to be having a good time, it strikes me that this is a [i]not[/i] a big venue. Long but very shallow maybe 15' deep from front wall to back wall. So I'd imagine that trying to fit a full band in alongside a party of 16 would be a bit of a stretch. Myself, I'd have reservations about taking a full-size, loud-ish band in there under any circs. Also, the front wall seems mostly to be glass - I'd imagine that sound levels in there could require serious compromise. Looking at the venue's gig list, it seems mostly to be singers with acoustics, so a blueser guitarist at full beans might be a bit scary. TBH, this sounds like one of those situations where everyone starts with the best intentions but a wheel comes off and tempers flare. Least said soonest mended, IMO. [color=#ffffff].[/color] [/quote] Quote of the day IMO. sh*t Happens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 (edited) I'd still love to find out what the reaction to Cerberus Cell would be Come on... give us a gig [size=1]... I dare you[/size] Edited June 15, 2012 by charic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 (edited) And another thing... Nothing against Americano, but - in my old Blues band - the words 'Jazz Cafe' or 'Cabaret' or 'Restaurant' always filled me with trepidation. Particularly as the guitarist's smallest amp was a Bluesbreaker re-issue. [color=#ffffff].[/color] Edited June 15, 2012 by skankdelvar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben604 Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 I'd say this was at least 90% the venue's fault. Ridiculous, booking an "electric" band to play when you've got a birthday in for 16 people when it looks cramped to begin with, then seating them just in front of where the band hope to set up/play?! I'd be livid. It's hard enough setting up for gigs as it is, getting the sound right, concerning yourselves with "the right set list" etc... Granted, I wouldn't speak to customers in the way the letter suggests, but again, they could be using that to further their claim/complaint. I think the management need to have a think before making their bookings, both for customers and bands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chrismanbass Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 sorry if this has been covered only skimmed through the thread but with any band i'm running the venue and the band sign a contract detailing the time, date, venue and whats expected from both parties i.e. minimum space requirements ect... i know this is a little late for this one but if you ever need a template contract to give you some kind of legal backup a good one can be found for free here: [url="http://www.blues101.org/articles/contracts.htm"]http://www.blues101.org/articles/contracts.htm[/url] or here for a smaller venue i.e a pub gig [url="http://www.blues101.org/articles/contracts3.htm#Casual%20Band%20Booking"]http://www.blues101.org/articles/contracts3.htm#Casual Band Booking[/url] i think the MU have a service like this however i think you have to be a member to use it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Just re-read the original post - on the night in question, the playing space was under the piano in this pic. M'mm. Three piece band [i]and[/i] a party of 16? I don't think so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Yeah, bang on Skank, thats blatantly misunderstanding the requirements of a full band - even a 3 piece - let alone the requiremetns of a party of 16. I'd have been livid if I was in either of the offended parties.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 [quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1339772048' post='1694130'] Just re-read the original post - on the night in question, the playing space was under the piano in this pic. M'mm. Three piece band [i]and[/i] a party of 16? I don't think so. [/quote] Not to mention no "Mind your head sign" the pedals on the piano look like they could hurt a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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