Adrenochrome Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 [quote name='BottomE' timestamp='1331721474' post='1577564'] You can disagree but i think you'll find that this kind of thing has been happening for years and will continue to happen. Ironically the very next post to yours is from another chap who suffered from the same fate. I agree its unacceptable but over time you learn to avoid these gigs/landlords. [/quote] It's very rare for it to happen in the North, and I've very rarely played anywhere down South so it may be more common than I thought. I've never left a venue without any payment, and only once have I accepted less than the full fee when a club booking [nightclub, not wmc] wasn't promoted and we were paid off at the start of the evening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throwoff Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Smash the place up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risingson Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Only just seen this thread. I would have walked out, so would the rest of my band. Some people will be morons for the rest of their miserable lives, the management sound like they lack a brain. Furthermore I'd dissuade any other bands you might be friendly with to play there. The fact you acted professionally and got slammed for it is one thing, but to not get paid is absolute bullshit. You've got a lot more patience than I'd have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daz Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 (edited) [quote name='throwoff' timestamp='1331734143' post='1577933'] Smash the place up. [/quote] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DegGwZnySmk[/media] Seem em a dozen times in 1979 and the early 80s. brilliant ! They wouldn't have taken not been paid, lightly I assure you Edited March 14, 2012 by daz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorks5stringer Posted March 14, 2012 Share Posted March 14, 2012 Joking aside, I really don't see smashing the venue up as particularly clever way of resolving the matter......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 [quote name='yorks5stringer' timestamp='1331753788' post='1578397'] Joking aside, I really don't see smashing the venue up as particularly clever way of resolving the matter.........[/quote] Quite right. The OP would be all over the CCTV. Things like this need a bit of thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) A depressing situation... I've spent most of my adult life gigging in the south, and I've never had a single problem with payment. But also I've never gigged without a contract, so maybe that has something to do with it... Edited March 15, 2012 by discreet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throwoff Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 [quote name='yorks5stringer' timestamp='1331753788' post='1578397'] Joking aside, I really don't see smashing the venue up as particularly clever way of resolving the matter......... [/quote] Sometimes you just gotta go with your heart and smash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBassBob Posted March 15, 2012 Author Share Posted March 15, 2012 Hi guys, an update on the situation: Our guitarist managed to get fuel money from the venue (to quote him, he "fought like f***" for it) but we will not be playing there again in the future. As far as we're concerned the matter is dealt with, we're just chalking it up as a lesson and moving on. We're currently working on a band contract to prevent such further incidents occuring. [quote name='Roland Rock' timestamp='1331550883' post='1574466'] Disgraceful, unnecessary, I've never heard of such a thing ...............I mean really? a blues bass player with a pedal board??!!? [/quote] My tuner and Thumpinator are definitely a necessity... and if a blues guitarist can have two Tubescreamers surely I'm allowed the one? (But joking aside I don't use pedals in our set, only for the rockier, crowd pleasers.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 I think the lesson is to vet the gigs as much as they vet you. Not always possible, but venues either do things properly or they don't and then you decide if you want to be a part of what they do or not. There are quite a few pubs round here we have decided not to pursue or persevere with... and that cuts down gigs, but so be it. It is supposed to be fun..first and foremost ..or a shed load of money otherwise, but even then, I'd be in the not worth it camp, mostly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
americano Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 Late response to this forum thread based on only viewing it today by accident The evidenced facts are [font=Cambria]1. [/font]The band member behaved in a way that was unacceptable: Evidence: letter of customer complaint received by Americano’s outlining how abusive a band member had been [font=Cambria]2. [/font]Prior to the booking – the band had been offered free accommodation, food, alcohol throughout the evening, as well as payment – i.e. Americano’s look after their bands [font=Cambria]3. [/font]Despite the outrageous behavior of the band member, the accommodation offer was honored, and in fact taken up by a band member and his girlfriend. The band also made full use of the hospitality (both food and drinks) and the band was paid IN FULL. [font=Cambria]4. [/font]Vetting of venue policy – Americano’s vet all bands on quieter days so both parties are aware of the space limitations, and that both parties are clear on expectations – the band was more than happy with the set up and had asked for a number of gigs.. the said night was at least their 4[sup]th[/sup] gig….. quite clear that there is scientific evidence that the space had not changed [font=Cambria]5. [/font]Also after having paid the band in full… the bands were so disappointed with Americano’s – they requested return gigs! [font=Cambria]6. [/font]The lies weaved throughout this thread has now infected many unsuspecting bands with misinformation/lies… and to hear that the space should be smashed up in return is to be frank something that should be reported to the authorities [font=Cambria]7. [/font]The attached complaint letter from a customer about the band’s behaviour and the return letter from the establishment is attached for those who would like to read the evidence [font=Cambria]8. [/font]Extremely disappointed, despite Americano’s bad experience of the band, they did not expose the band in such a public way; thus behaving in a professional manner; yet the forum thread here is deemed to be acceptable lie peddling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
americano Posted June 14, 2012 Share Posted June 14, 2012 [center]To whom it may concern[/center] I am writing to express my profound frustration and disappointment. I went to your restaurant with high expectations. Not only were my were my expectations not exceeded, they were not met. On the 8th January I booked a table for 16 at your restaurant for Saturday the 10th March at 8pm to celebrate a birthday. This was confirmed over email at the time and then over the phone a couple of days beforehand. We arrived at the restaurant and was greeted with a row of small round bar tables pushed together, people standing up as there was not enough space and being seated within inches of a extremely rude and obnoxious band member who was pushing and shoving his way past as well as taking away our tables. The band member said not to put our drinks on the table as he was taking the table away. When we spoke to the band member (sorry, he refused to give me his name) as to why he was moving the tables that we were going to be eating off, he spoke to me in a very derogatory manor and said 'not my problem, I need my space and that means you loose'. When I explained that we need the table to eat our dinner and that it had been booked since January, he then went on to say again that it wasn't his problem and to speak to the manager and pointed to the bar where the manager was. As I got up to find the manager, a waitress was trying to take our order. However, this was very hard as the band were doing a sound check. So not only were we unable to hear her, she was also unable to hear us and asked us to repeat ourselves several times. We then moved closer to the bar and further away from the band so we could have a conversation as to what had happened so far and how disappointed we were. The waitress (sorry, I didn't ask for her name) was very polite and tried to help as much as she could and relayed the situation to the manager. The manager then spoke to the band and asked them to put the table back as we would need to it eat our dinner. The band member the proceeded to throw the table back in the row and pinched the leg of a lady on out party. And as I'm sure you are aware, the tables have metal legs are very heavy when it lands on your leg unsuspectingly. When I explained this to the band member and asked him to be careful he then said 'to be quite honest, I don't give a flying f***!'. Naturally, when myself and our party was spoken to like this we were very taken aback. Especially that a establishment like yours would employ someone who would speak to your customers like that. I have never been spoke to like that before and in that tone and I certainly didn't expect it while I was out for a special meal. I find it compleatly unacceptable. I then explained to the manager what had happened and how I was spoken to. He did apologise and said he would speak to the band member, however the damage had already been done. After this had happened, the band member turned the speaker up for his sound check and we were literally shouting to the people sitting next to us to have a conversation. All the other customers who were there were giving us sympathetic looks as they heard everything that had happened. Even though I was trying to make the best of things and trying to put a positive spin on things, everything got to much for the rest of the party. No one wanted to stay there, no one wanted to eat there or spend any of their money there, the night had been ruined. So we informed the manager and left to try and salvage what was left of our night. Which was quite difficult considering it was now getting very late to even eat anywhere. As I'm sure you will agree, we booked well in advance and this should not have happened. This was meant to be a very special birthday meal with people having travelled from the Lake District, Coventry, London and around Swansea. I feel if we hadn't of been so close to the band this wouldn't of happened. If the restaurant can not comfortably seat a party of that size plus the band, then the booking should never have had been agreed to. There was ample time to advise us if the situation changed. I have never been to your restaurant before, however t does look a lovely place and the food that was coming past looked and smelled very nice. So before I comment on any internet sites, I would like to give a chance reply to and explain why all this happened and why our night was ruined. I look forward to hearing from you. Yours sincerely Customer name deleted to protect their identity Dear Customer Thank you for taking time out to write the letter. I understand that you were disappointed that the night did not run as planned. We appreciate that you selected us for your birthday party. From the contents of the letter, it is clear that your issue was with the behaviour of the band member; and we too, were so disappointed by the behaviour of the band member that night, we not only addressed this directly with them, but also cancelled all further bookings we had taken with them. We will not tolerate rudeness to our customers. As a live music venue, you must appreciate that we cannot control the actions of musicians; at least in the way one would hope to set a standard from one’s own staff. I was glad to read in your mail, that all contact made with Americano staff was acceptable; that they had been polite and as accommodating as the situation would allow, given the circumstance. As a live music venue, customers normally appreciate that we must bear some risk that the performers will behave to an acceptable standard on the night, and to date, since our opening we have not had any issues. We have also just come out of an extremely busy Christmas period in which we able to successfully accommodate bookings as large as 40. My understanding is that one of your party is very familiar with our bar; and must have been aware that the ethos of the venue is that is a very intimate, yet lively space. Consequently, it is most usual for us to accommodate parties such as yours, without any disruption; albeit with an independent musician/group that normally interacts well with the guest, rather than in a rude manner. We are not a fine-dining restaurant; but offer a continental vibe, lively setting; in which customers actively engage with the musicians; upon which our reputation has grown. The aforementioned group have now, as a consequence, lost all future dealings with us; so I hope this can satisfy that there have been serious repercussions for their actions. I can only apologise again for the experience, and appreciate that you are within your rights to complain, and note negative feedback on forums. Just as we limited in our powers, as a live venue bar, to have controlled the actions of third party; we can only hope that you do visit us again, and are clear in mind that we have severed ties with the band; and can ensure you will be made most welcome if you do want to visit us again. We are a very small business, and appreciate all our customers; and as you have already noted, have a small team who work hard to provide an experience which is different to that found with large chains on the high street. I just hope you can separate the actions of the now dispensed third party, and ourselves. Best regards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sticker Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 (edited) [i]Even later response by someone who has nothing to do with this and has too much time on his hands and watches too much Judge Judy ....[/i] The evidenced facts are [i]Evidenced by whom ? [/i] 1. The band member behaved in a way that was unacceptable: Evidence: letter of customer complaint received by Americano’s outlining how abusive a band member had been [i]so no independant 3rd party view , sounds like 1 persons word against another to me and that's hearsay...[/i] 2. Prior to the booking – the band had been offered free accommodation, food, alcohol throughout the evening, as well as payment – i.e. Americano’s look after their bands [i]What like the poster in post #44 whose band didn't get paid because the venue only had 5 punters in and the management let them play regardless or was he lying as well? Remind me to [b]NEVER[/b] let you look after my band .[/i] 3. Despite the outrageous behavior of the band member [i](HEARSAY)[/i], the accommodation offer was honored, and in fact taken up by a band member and his girlfriend. The band also made full use of the hospitality (both food and drinks) and the band was paid IN FULL. [i]So what you are saying is that BigBassBobs's guitarist has lied to his 2 bandmates saying that he only got "fuel money" from the venue when infact the day after your establishment has lost 16 orders for meals , in the cold light of day you've had a change of heart and paid them in full ? That does not sound very likely to me , but even if you have , you should have paid them in full on the night as per their contract . That's how you "look after a band"![/i] 4. Vetting of venue policy – Americano’s vet all bands on quieter days so both parties are aware of the space limitations, and that both parties are clear on expectations – the band was more than happy with the set up and had asked for a number of gigs.. the said night was at least their 4th gig….. quite clear that there is scientific evidence that the space had not changed [i]Unless you stick tabling enough for a booking of 16 people in the place where the band usually set up , that would have a space reducing effect , and that is scientific and rather obvious.[/i] 5. Also after having paid the band in full… the bands were so disappointed with Americano’s – they requested return gigs! [i]Can't comment on this as i only have your word for it , I'd be inertested to hear what the OP says though ...[/i] 6. The lies weaved throughout this thread has now infected many unsuspecting bands with misinformation/lies… and to hear that the space should be smashed up in return is to be frank something that should be reported to the authorities [i]errm , what authorities would they be then ? The posts made regarding smashing the place up are quite clearly tounge in cheek and not meant to be taken seriously,i mean those comments were made in March and I don't recall seeing anything on the news in the following 3 months about hoards of angry bassists rampaging through music bars in Wales...[/i] 7. The attached complaint letter from a customer about the band’s behaviour and the return letter from the establishment is attached for those who would like to read the evidence [i]To be honest you could have just typed that up yourself though couldn't you ? and the whole thing could have been avoided if you didn't take a booking that you couldn't seat when you had a band on that you have prior knowledge of how loud they are and how much space they take up . The letter of complaint has lots of inaccuracies of logic itself but I wont go there for now ...[/i] 8. Extremely disappointed, despite Americano’s bad experience of the band, they did not expose the band in such a public way; thus behaving in a professional manner; yet the forum thread here is deemed to be acceptable lie peddling [i]It's a internet discussion forum , not the front page of the Times, and again you only have "your customers" word that a band member used abusive language and in reading both the letter of complaint and your response I note a similar use of language and grammar so would not be suprised in the slightest if you wrote them both . Either way it's no sweat off my testes but I'll never play your dive but fair play for coming here to try and justify the outrageous and indefensible actions of your staff for not paying a band as they should have and you can stick your late response up your "intimate, yet lively space"![/i] all of the above is in my humble opinion of course(which is worth nowt!) Edited June 15, 2012 by sticker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Fretbuzz Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 [quote name='jjay69' timestamp='1331568777' post='1574976'] Thats rather typical of Swansea, it's an angry place, i know, im from there. Saying that it wasnt like that in my day when we played the likes of the Singleton, the Cardiff arms Coach house etc proper music loving pubs, 2 of which are closed now of course.. [/quote] Me too...all you've got to do is put a note up at the Cardiff City Football club that you are holding a free concert there. There won't be any venue after that when you don't show :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Fretbuzz Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 ........oh and another thing.... Book yourselves again under a different name and I'll dep for you.....I can't play so they'll lose ALL their customers :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 If you'll cover petrol cerberus cell will come play. We play nice melodic music Also, I want a popcorn smiley! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debwilliams Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 [quote name='Mr Fretbuzz' timestamp='1339737170' post='1693444'] Me too...all you've got to do is put a note up at the Cardiff City Football club that you are holding a free concert there. There won't be any venue after that when you don't show :-) [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Fretbuzz Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Yep you've got to think out of the box on this one :-) Get even or I guess put it down to Band Rehersal and the Rock n Roll experience :-( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
debwilliams Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 [quote name='jjay69' timestamp='1331568777' post='1574976'] Thats rather typical of Swansea, it's an angry place, i know, im from there. Saying that it wasnt like that in my day when we played the likes of the Singleton, the Cardiff arms Coach house etc proper music loving pubs, 2 of which are closed now of course.. [/quote] Not sure if Swansea is an angry place but I think that people will let you know how it is. Off topic kind of but there is a real need for pubs like this, nothing quite like The Coach in the area now. Quite a few pubs that don't seem to clean (at all) but no real music venues. I quite like The Vault but there are far too many venues who just can't cut it and give the real pub feel. Not sure I'll be rushing to Americano which from reading the customer's letter and the response from the business seems a little confused in its identity. Not pleasant for the diner who was clearly too close to the band and not ideal for the band with little room to play regardless of how many times they've played (or not). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JakeBrownBass Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Hmm, this entire story is one persons word against the other. I don't think we can dismiss what Americano is saying just because the OP is a member here. If they have issues that they still need to sort out, they should do it. Just not on a public forum where it's going to end up like a playground fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmmettC Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 [quote name='JakeBrownBass' timestamp='1339743168' post='1693491'] Hmm, this entire story is one persons word against the other. I don't think we can dismiss what Americano is saying just because the OP is a member here. If they have issues that they still need to sort out, they should do it. Just not on a public forum where it's going to end up like a playground fight. [/quote] +1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
throwoff Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 [quote name='americano' timestamp='1339705251' post='1693185'] [font=Cambria]6. [/font]The lies weaved throughout this thread has now infected many unsuspecting bands with misinformation/lies… and to hear that the space should be smashed up in return is to be frank something that should be reported to the authorities [/quote] It was myself that made that comment and I am happy to respond to this. If you could not tell that was a tongue in cheek statement based on the context of my reply then I don't honestly know how I could of been more clear. Also I wish to concur with a few posters above myself who have said this should now be left off the forum, you have made points as has the initial poster of this thread and as someone who knows neither the venue nor the band in question I will not pass judgement as to who is right in which regard. Two sides to every story etc etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Fretbuzz Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 +1. I might have inferred it in jest but agree that my Bass playing ought to be reported to the Police :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassman Steve Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 Frankly, the fact (by their own reproduction of the complaint letter - whoever wrote it) that they provided their best (known) customers of the evening with inadequate tables right in front of a band tells me all I want to know of the respect this place evidently has for its customers (and, by implication, everyone else). If it treats them so shabbily then I am rather less inclined to weight my conclusions about all this in their favour, I reckon they need the restaurant inspector!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted June 15, 2012 Share Posted June 15, 2012 [quote name='JakeBrownBass' timestamp='1339743168' post='1693491'] Hmm, this entire story is one persons word against the other. I don't think we can dismiss what Americano is saying just because the OP is a member here. [/quote] Indeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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