risingson Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 [quote name='blackmn90' timestamp='1331573320' post='1575106'] you've taken out of context what i'm saying, as i did you. I'm saying that those who don't know what those such as anthony jackson are doing in a theoretical format, are less likely to realise how clever he is. How can they if they haven't been taught it first? You can't recognise a major scale unless you've been shown what a major scale looks or sounds like.... [/quote] You shouldn't need to be of a certain level of musicianship to be able to enjoy music. After all, that's what music is about isn't it? It's not maths and equations, it's about enjoying yourself, whether you be the listener or the performer. Lets use your logic and apply it to a jazz fan who doesn't play an instrument. Are you saying that this person is ill-equipped to judge the difference between Kenny G and Charlie Parker just because this person has no theoretical experience? And besides, who cares which one you prefer? I mean really? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4000 Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 [quote name='blackmn90' timestamp='1331574177' post='1575123'] outrageous [/quote] Let's see; one changed bass playing and bass sounds forever, influencing thousands upon thousands of players in the process. Plus he played some great lines in the context of his band. The other typically has one of the worst sounds I've ever heard, has played some of the most boring music ever created and needs to smile more seeing as he's getting paid wads for being utterly tedious (and IMO somewhat derivative). Isn't this how these threads normally go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risingson Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 [quote name='4000' timestamp='1331574182' post='1575124'] Indeed. Should we bail now or can we still land her safely??? [/quote] Oh I don't know 4000 these threads have a habit of blowing themselves up, I'll hit the ejector seat when my soapbox breaks!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4000 Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 [quote name='risingson' timestamp='1331574586' post='1575142'] Oh I don't know 4000 these threads have a habit of blowing themselves up, I'll hit the ejector seat when my soapbox breaks!! [/quote] Well I think I just accidentally-on-purpose shot the tail off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) [quote name='4000' timestamp='1331573759' post='1575113']Being technically very good is only any use if it enables you to say make an interesting artistic statement. Music is about art, about creativity. Technique is just an aid to that.. It's quite possible to be technically very good and have little or nothing to say...[/quote] A colleague of mine is an English teacher. He knows all about sentences, grammar and stuff like that. In other words, he has great technique. When he speaks though, nothing but dull monologues come out. Nobody wants to listen to him... Is this relevant? Edited March 12, 2012 by Conan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4000 Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 [quote name='Conan' timestamp='1331575147' post='1575151'] A colleague of mine is an English teacher. He knows all about sentences, grammar and stuff like that. In other words, he has great technique. When he speaks though, nothing but dull monologues come out. Nobody wants to listen to him... Is this relevant? [/quote] What does relevant mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leftybassman392 Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 I'll bet the OP didn't anticipate the way this has developed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geddys nose Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Not a big big Entwistle fan but I think that in the early 60's he wrote the blueprint for most rock bass playing to come and the influence he had on other players in the '70's,80's. There was a not a lot going on then until Jameson,McCartney and Entwistle came along and he gets my respect for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Stu Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 [quote name='BottomE' timestamp='1331574287' post='1575129'] I'd add Flea to my list too. I am not saying they are rubbish - all i am saying is that when i heard them i couldn't work out why they were rated so highly. [/quote] You can't say that!!!!!!!!!!! [quote name='risingson' timestamp='1331571930' post='1575067'] ...............................Flea .......................... if we're quite honest has influenced a million other bass players too.[/quote] Glad it was only quite honest as opposed to actually honest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 [quote name='leftybassman392' timestamp='1331575470' post='1575157'] I'll bet the OP didn't anticipate the way this has developed! [/quote] I'll bet the OP has already left the country and set up a new life in Brazil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 [quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1331570338' post='1575024'] I don't think I'm that interested in bass players so I don't know who is rated highly and who isn't. I generally like bass players who play interesting parts in good bands, and dislike bass players who play at trade shows. [/quote] Ah good, I'd nearly forgotten why I don't go to trade shows. Thanks for the reminder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risingson Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 [quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1331576254' post='1575175'] Glad it was only quite honest as opposed to actually honest. [/quote] In clearer terms then, Flea has obviously influenced countless bass players, both young and old, both experienced and beginner. You'd be wrong to try and deny it, even if the idea does offend one or two people's musical sensibilities. And with that, I shall bow out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toddy Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 [quote name='Conan' timestamp='1331575147' post='1575151'] A colleague of mine is an English teacher. He knows all about sentences, grammar and stuff like that. In other words, he has great technique. When he speaks though, nothing but dull monologues come out. Nobody wants to listen to him... Is this relevant? [/quote] Best post ever ,,,,, awesome...............YES Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 [quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1331570338' post='1575024'] I don't think I'm that interested in bass players so I don't know who is rated highly and who isn't. I generally like bass players who play interesting parts in good bands, and dislike bass players who play at trade shows. [/quote] That pretty much sums up my attitude as well. I feel very uncomfortable with the motivations of those who insist that I should in some way pay homage to their bass gods. To be really brutal about it, I'd say that most of these 'gods' were\are just one trick ponies who managed to pass the finishing line first a long time ago when the rest of the contestants in the race were sat back doing nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Stu Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) [quote name='risingson' timestamp='1331578409' post='1575239'] And with that, I shall bow out [/quote] You know you won't; you'll be back to argue your corner That's the thing with folk who claim their idol "influences" folk. It's one of my pet irks is misplaced claims of "influence"; it usually ends up that someone who's admitted to liking a song or an album by someone is claimed to have [i]been influenced[/i] by them. I rarely believe it until I hear that influencee say so themself. Edited March 12, 2012 by Big_Stu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Stu Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 [quote name='icastle' timestamp='1331579050' post='1575258'] the rest of the contestants in the race were sat back doing nothing. [/quote] That's usually my fave kind of player of any description, the ones that appear to be sitting back doing nothing - but when they stop you wonder where that bloody big hole came from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MoJo Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Me too .... there, the cat's out of the bag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomE Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Over-rated is difficult to qualify though. It seems logical that the more a bass player is rated highly, the more chance there is of the bass player not meeting everyones criteria of "highly-rated" and thus ending up being "over-rated". If, to boot, they are in a commercially successfull band, for example Flea or Mark King, then there are going to be more opinions around (more people know who they are - they are a bigger target).so that further reduces their chances of being highly-rated as there are more people to snipe at them. Through no fault of their own they end up being over-rated. I don't even understand what i have written but it made sense at the time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 [quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1331579291' post='1575266'] That's usually my fave kind of player of any description, the ones that appear to be sitting back doing nothing - but when they stop you wonder where that bloody big hole came from. [/quote] Yeah. It's about contributing to the 'whole', not leaping about on stage playing distorted bass solos wearing a leotard. Just as an example, and to be proveI have no axe to grind, I've intentionally chosen an example totally outside of my genre, that bass player who was with ABBA. I have no idea what his name is, I have no idea what gear he used and I have no idea of what he looked like or if he has worked with anyone else, but take him out of ABBA and you're left with an adequate guitarist, a pretty good keyboard player and two screeching birds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 [quote name='bassman2790' timestamp='1331579498' post='1575273'] Me too .... there, the cat's out of the bag [/quote] We shall be forever remembered in legend and song as the Three Bassketeers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4000 Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 [quote name='icastle' timestamp='1331580458' post='1575304'] Yeah. It's about contributing to the 'whole', not leaping about on stage playing distorted bass solos wearing a leotard. Just as an example, and to be proveI have no axe to grind, I've intentionally chosen an example totally outside of my genre, that bass player who was with ABBA. I have no idea what his name is, I have no idea what gear he used and I have no idea of what he looked like or if he has worked with anyone else, but take him out of ABBA and you're left with an adequate guitarist, a pretty good keyboard player and two screeching birds. [/quote] Most of the stuff was Rutger Gunnarsson. Fab player, one of my faves. As for screeching birds though, how very dare you! I challenge you to star-shaped, glitter-covered handbags at dawn! What I don't get is that so many people seem to only like one type of player. Rutger Gunnarson is great. Flea is great. I like supportive, outlandish and everything inbetween. Except Marcus Miller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risingson Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 [quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1331579158' post='1575262'] You know you won't; you'll be back to argue your corner That's the thing with folk who claim their idol "influences" folk. It's one of my pet irks is misplaced claims of "influence"; it usually ends up that someone who's admitted to liking a song or an album by someone is claimed to have [i]been influenced[/i] by them. I rarely believe it until I hear that influencee say so themself. [/quote] You're right! Haha it's like an itch that you can't quite scratch, you persevere but you never get anywhere Flea isn't my 'idol'. He used to be when I was 14 or 15. He was just an example, Doddy was the one who initially brought him up so I thought I might run with the comparison briefly. I don't do idols really, although if I ever came across Pino Palladino I'd probably jump on him and give him a big hug for being a top lad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4000 Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 [quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1331579158' post='1575262'] You know you won't; you'll be back to argue your corner That's the thing with folk who claim their idol "influences" folk. It's one of my pet irks is misplaced claims of "influence"; it usually ends up that someone who's admitted to liking a song or an album by someone is claimed to have [i]been influenced[/i] by them. I rarely believe it until I hear that influencee say so themself. [/quote] Ok, seeing as you really seem to have a real bee in your bonnet about anyone influencing anyone else (especially where you don't happen to like them), please clarify what you describe as "influencing somebody". To me, somebody who inspires someone else to pick up an instrument "influences somebody". Someone who has an impact on the way they play technically, or the way they create lines, or both, or more, "influences somebody". Flea certainly fits the first criteria and probably the others too. Also, why do you automatically assume that because someone says "so-and-so influenced a lot of people" that the person making the statement is automatically a fanboy? I acknowledge Jaco as one of the most influential bassists ever, but I'm not really much of a fan at all. Or can you not separate concept and preference? My first bass influences were probably Lemmy, Phil Lynott and Gaye Advert. Gaye Advert you say? Yep. I saw a picture of her with a blue Rickenbacker and thought "how cool is that?" I'd never even heard her play, but in a sense she influenced me and my direction as a player, even if only in a small way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risingson Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 [quote name='4000' timestamp='1331584652' post='1575437'] Also, why do you automatically assume that because someone says "so-and-so influenced a lot of people" that the person making the statement is automatically a fanboy? [/quote] This part baffled me too, hence the clarification on my behalf to save my words being taken hugely out of context. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4000 Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 (edited) [quote name='risingson' timestamp='1331584822' post='1575447'] This part baffled me too, hence the clarification on my behalf to save my words being taken hugely out of context. [/quote] Don't worry, he's got previous. I'll add that despite not really being much of a Jaco fan, he has *shock horror* been an influence. Not much of one, but a bit. Edited March 12, 2012 by 4000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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