HeavyJay Posted March 15, 2012 Author Share Posted March 15, 2012 (edited) Right, we've declined this gig but I offered to put him in touch with some other bands who are okay with noise limiters. Details I have so far are that PLI is required but they haven't specified the amount to us. The venue is in Burnsall in North Yorkshire and the date is the 24th of November. There is a noise limiter set at 86db at the outside wall. They want two 45 minute to one hour slots in terms of playing time. We didn't get into details of music between, before and after sets. We also didn't get into talking money so I don't have a ballpark fee. PM me with details of your band (Band name, style, contact name, website, email, phone) and I'll collate them and pass them on to the chap. Cheers for all your help and advice on this. [size=2]Edited for spelling[/size] Edited March 15, 2012 by HeavyJay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monckyman Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 UPS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike257 Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 If there's no practical way of bypassing it then you're probably doing right to avoid it. My only (admittedly limited) experience with these boxes saw them trip when the drummer played on his own. Nothing electric had even been plugged in yet! Unless (like Doddy's crew in his post above) you're suitably equipped with electric drums, in-ears etc for playing a quiet gig, you'll likely find it a struggle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 The venue doesn't have PLI..?? They MUST have.. Not sure about this place as a venue tbh. and to add the limiter into the equation...!!! We would have walked as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borisbrain Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 One of our regular venues has one of these wretched limiters. It's set to 90-odd decibels, so 86 sounds a little low. Interestingly, despite me being regularly accused of being the loudest member of the band, my bass doesn't even cause it to flicker. Snare (un-miked) and guitar have it lighting up like a Christmas tree though. So I've found limiters to be more responsive to mid-to-higher frequencies. I agree with chris_b's point that sometimes scaling back the volume will tighten things up, and we have been known to play much louder than needed. However, we are a punk band, and making the ears bleed seems like a necessary courtesy sometimes ; ) It certainly doesn't help that limiters don't predict Saturday night ambient noise which lights up the limiter to 75% before we've even played a note. If you add applause and cheering to that, then it's inevitable that a cut-off beckons. Go with a 30 ft extension cable and play dumb... Bestaluck, BB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeavyJay Posted March 15, 2012 Author Share Posted March 15, 2012 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1331816767' post='1579335'] The venue doesn't have PLI..?? They MUST have.. Not sure about this place as a venue tbh. and to add the limiter into the equation...!!! We would have walked as well. [/quote] Forgive me for a brief thread diversion but loads of places we've played have required the band to have PLI. Two pretty standard questions are: "What level of PLI cover do you have?" and "is all you gear PAT tested?" Is this unusual? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BILL POSTERS Posted March 15, 2012 Share Posted March 15, 2012 Havent come across many, and always managed to take a feed from another room. Tried playing with one once, but just the the snare by itself set it off. I have heard that a wet bar towel around the mic works well but never tried it myself. Anywhere that expects you to play with one of them in the room, doesnt really want a band, If I couldnt find a way around it, I wouldnt do the gig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeavyJay Posted March 16, 2012 Author Share Posted March 16, 2012 Not a single PM! Looks like noise limiters at wedding function gigs are a big turn off for bands! I've replied to the guy and given him a couple of local recommendations instead. Consider that part of the thread closed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 [quote name='HeavyJay' timestamp='1331818705' post='1579385'] Forgive me for a brief thread diversion but loads of places we've played have required the band to have PLI. Two pretty standard questions are: "What level of PLI cover do you have?" and "is all you gear PAT tested?" Is this unusual? [/quote] PAT testing is pretty basic and they are covering themselves, so I think this is reasonable. Most bands have it, or should, IMV...and not getting into the debate about how useful it is, etc etc.. We are investigating PLI at the moment..not sure where we are with it as it happens, so must check, but we find outside stages and one -offs in this regard, ask for it..even though most of the gear is hired in by them..stages, etc .. Again, I am off the opinion that this is the venues deal, and they might want to offset against what you have. It does make me nervous to have heavy stuff up on stands that might crash into someone..somehow, anyhow... so I think it has its uses...if only for piece of mind. I think if the venue asks for it, they are looking for all bands to have it... as it isn't much use having half and half.. You might find it may get you the gig against a band that doesn't have it, but I can't think venues would get a license without their own PLI. If you do enough work, then you should look into it ...as we are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomE Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 [quote name='HeavyJay' timestamp='1331886504' post='1580285'] Not a single PM! Looks like noise limiters at wedding function gigs are a big turn off for bands! I've replied to the guy and given him a couple of local recommendations instead. Consider that part of the thread closed! [/quote] If they can move the gig down south or alernatively pay for 5 to get to Yorkshire we'd do it. We have the PLI, we are all PAT tested and really don't mind the limiter if it is set correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crez5150 Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 [quote name='HeavyJay' timestamp='1331818705' post='1579385'] Forgive me for a brief thread diversion but loads of places we've played have required the band to have PLI. Two pretty standard questions are: "What level of PLI cover do you have?" and "is all you gear PAT tested?" Is this unusual? [/quote] Most of the venue's we play functions at stipulate that you must have PLI. It's been mentioned here lots but I'm surprised any bands that are out playing function and wedding work do not have PLI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeavyJay Posted March 16, 2012 Author Share Posted March 16, 2012 [quote name='BottomE' timestamp='1331889602' post='1580336'] If they can move the gig down south or alernatively pay for 5 to get to Yorkshire we'd do it. We have the PLI, we are all PAT tested and really don't mind the limiter if it is set correctly. [/quote] I can pass your details on if you like, just PM me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Dave Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 I think it's a simple question of whether you're prepared to play venues with noise limiters and because I play for my own enjoyment rather than being a professional relying on the work and the compromises that can entail - I'm not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BottomE Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 [quote name='HeavyJay' timestamp='1331890423' post='1580353'] I can pass your details on if you like, just PM me. [/quote] If you don't get any local quotes then i'd be happy to. I am a bit surprised that so many of us find the limiter thing an issue. Just turn down, thats what the big button on the amp is for. I totally understand that there is a minimum volume - usually dictated by the drummer/kit etc but apart from that its easy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balcro Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 [quote name='HeavyJay' timestamp='1331720491' post='1577539'] I was wondering if people had had any more recent experiences with these? Has technology moved on and improved the lot of the function band? I've been asked to do a wedding gig at a venue with a "noise limiter set at 86db at the outside wall". My first reaction is to say no but I wonder if I'm being too hasty. We're not a particularly loud band and have good volume control when required. I understand why the venue has one, it's a country village pub / Coaching Inn type of place with plenty of houses around it. My worries are: Disrupting the flow of the gig / party / atmosphere Potential damage to equipment from sudden power cuts Any experiences / recommendations? [/quote] That condition on the licence "86dB at the outside wall" is another way of saying "86dB at the boundary wall to the next premises". In practical terms that will mean you can exceed 90dB inside the hall with ALL the doors & windows closed!! The problems occur when the sweating horde fling open the windows or french doors and the sound bursts out. If the sound limiter is linked to a switch on the doors, then you have very short interval before the limiter cuts in. It can still be a precarious situation. If the pub's got good ventilation or air-con then you're less likely to be troubled. All limiters are not created equal. The cut-off type are oudated but cheap to buy. The better noise squasher/compressor type are much better and allow the band to continue playing at a set level without cutting off. The downside is that they cost hundreds of £ more to buy. As [b]borisbrain[/b] says, limiters will often be tripped at mid-to-high frequencies because the units are either old, or cheaper versions. Any good modern limiter will have selectable weightings ( "A", "B", "C" or "Linear") built inside the box. If only "A" is available then that will result in audience noise and clapping setting the thing off! Balcro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeavyJay Posted March 16, 2012 Author Share Posted March 16, 2012 The venue is this place: http://www.devonshirefell.co.uk/index.cfm Not quite the Country Coaching Inn I thought. I was thinking of a different building in the village! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shizznit Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 We have had a few occasions when we have tripped the limiter and it ruins the night for everyone. We are not a loud band even when everything is mic'd up, but we do bring along a horn section occasionally and those guys will trip the limiter straight away. The FOH gets louder when they play with us because they are acoustically very loud and we need to balance the band...then pop! The limiter kicks in! We have resigned to the fact that we are a band that is not suitable for venues with Db limiters and don't play them as a rule of thumb. Our FOH engineer always has his Db meter on him and quite often when the venues limiter kicks in the meter is reading a much lower volume. I do always question the accuracy of those systems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thepurpleblob Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 I was just reading the specs on a couple of these things (how dull am I?) and spotted something interesting - many of them can be integrated with the alarm system. If any outside doors are open the cutoff volume is automagically reduced even further. How devious is that? Might be worth being aware of... don't chock open the fire-doors on a hot night! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Smalls Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 We've got a venue locally where they insist even the PA, which is 10kW goes through the limiter, which is set at 92dB, c weighted, and the mic is right by the stage! The real problem is that the limiter itself is only rated at 13amps - i.e. a max of about 3kW. So it's possible to fry the limiter with the PA and a Kw of backline plugged into it -these sort of things worry me being an electrician! And being c weighted means it's biased toward bass frequencies, so it's very easy to set off. And if it does go off, that's the whole PA plus backline to be damaged when they come back on again... However, there just happens to be a large supply on stage designed for lighting which isn't through the limiter, so we use that... Unofficially of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risingson Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 [quote name='BottomE' timestamp='1331895548' post='1580490'] If you don't get any local quotes then i'd be happy to. I am a bit surprised that so many of us find the limiter thing an issue. [b]Just turn down, thats what the big button on the amp is for[/b]. I totally understand that there is a minimum volume - usually dictated by the drummer/kit etc but apart from that its easy. [/quote] Not quite. Turning down is one thing (of course it doesn't matter how much you've turned down if the machine is wrongly calibrated, it'll still cut you off if indeed it's working properly), but it's only half the problem. The other issue is usually over-zealous members of staff keeping one eye on the limiter the whole night and getting on our backs at the first sign of red, making our jobs incredibly difficult no matter how quietly you're playing. In some rare cases it has ultimately ruined the evening's entertainment, which is the last thing you'd want at a wedding when the bride and groom have paid for you to be there and are enjoying the biggest night of their lives. Hardly fair at all. The bottom line is that if venues and staff are going to be on band's backs about reasonable levels of noise (and lets face it, bands make noise), then they shouldn't be having live music there in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pietruszka Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 [quote name='risingson' timestamp='1331918794' post='1580964'] The bottom line is that if venues and staff are going to be on band's backs about reasonable levels of noise (and lets face it, bands make noise), then they shouldn't be having live music there in the first place. [/quote] Exactly. I did a few week contract on a ferry which had a noise limiter, what a pain in the hole that was. And the guitarist was always blaming me for it clipping. Funny, because the B on the A string was fine, but play it on the E and it went nuts. w***ers. I hate the things with a passion 'cos they're a nightmare to work with and it makes the bands job unnecessarily difficult. As for 'turning down'? I'd rather be putting my all in to my playing/job and making a happy couples night one to remember. Not keeping one eye on the manager 'cos he's pointing up at the limiter. Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 [quote name='pietruszka' timestamp='1331919380' post='1580970'] I did a few week contract on a ferry which had a noise limiter, [/quote] Worried about the neighbours? The seagulls? The French? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 On a ferry, I'd be more worried about a clean power supply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spinynorman Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 Do venues really volunteer for these things? I thought they were something Environmental Health installed after the neighbours complain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted March 16, 2012 Share Posted March 16, 2012 [quote name='spinynorman' timestamp='1331928952' post='1581187'] Do venues really volunteer for these things? I thought they were something Environmental Health installed after the neighbours complain. [/quote] Doubt it...more likely that it is conditional on getting a license if there have been complaints/issues Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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