Clarky Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 If you buy an amp from say Thomann in Germany or a continental BC'er, I presume the amp comes with a kettle lead with a continental plug on the end. Can you simply replace this with a UK kettle lead to use it safely in the UK? Or are there different voltages/whatever applying that means this cannot be done and that some sort of electronic conversion is required. Sorry its such a dumbass question but occasionally there appear to be bargains from our European friends and I've never considered buying from outside the UK on the grounds of the foregoing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinB Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 (edited) You're fine... we're all (supposedly) 230V. [i]Since 1960, the supply voltage in UK domestic premises has been 240 V [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternating_current"]AC[/url] ([url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Root_mean_square"]RMS[/url]) at 50 Hz. In 1988, a Europe-wide agreement was reached to unify the various national voltages, which ranged at the time from 220 V to 240 V, to a common European standard of 230V (CENELEC Harmonization Document HD 472 S1:1988).[/i] [i]The standard nominal supply [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voltage"]voltage[/url] in domestic [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-phase_electric_power"]single-phase[/url] 50 Hz installations in the UK is still 240V AC (RMS), but since 1 January 1995 (Electricity Supply Regulations, SI 1994, No. 3021) this has an asymmetric [color=#ff0000][b]voltage tolerance of 230 V+10%-6% (253-216.2 V), which covers the same voltage range as continental 220v supplies to the new unified 230v standard[/b][/color]. This was supposed to be widened to 230 V ±10% (253-207 V), but the time of this change has been put back repeatedly and as of 2007[sup][url="http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Electrical_wiring_in_the_United_Kingdom&action=edit"][size="2"][update][/size][/url][/sup] is set for 2008 (BS 7697). The old standard was 240 V ±6% (254.4-225.6 V), which is mostly contained within the new range, and so in practice suppliers have had no reason to actually change voltages.[/i] [i]The continued deviation in the UK from the harmonised European voltage has been criticised in particular by [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_bulb"]light bulb[/url] manufacturers, who require tighter voltage tolerances to optimise the [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operating_temperature"]operating temperature[/url] and lifetime of their products, and who currently have to continue producing separate 230 V and 240 V versions.[/i] Edited March 19, 2012 by ColinB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legion Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Perfectly safe to do - some slight variation on voltage in Europe (220-240v) but the frequency is the same at 50Hz. So other than a different plug, go for it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clarky Posted March 19, 2012 Author Share Posted March 19, 2012 Thank you gents Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Agree with the above. In practice, it's usually even better than that because the adoption of IEC connectors makes it easier for manufacturers to use 'universal' power supplies that can cope with mains voltage and frequencies anywhere in the world and then just put the appropriate 'kettle lead' in the box for the target country. Sometimes they may even include multiple 'kettle leads' for even simpler packaging and logistics at their end. Having said that, such things depend a bit on a product's manufacturing volume and product pricing. Some bass gear might be considered a bit specialised, in which case any half decent seller should know if a product was suitable for a particular country. For ultimate confirmation, the product manual will be definitive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RandomBass Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 I've done exactly this with gear from Thomann on a couple of occasions, no problem. Cheers Geoff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 There's a really useful table on this Wikipedia page showing voltage and frequency for different countries. [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mains_electricity_by_country#Table_of_mains_voltages_and_frequencies"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mains_electricity_by_country#Table_of_mains_voltages_and_frequencies[/url] 220V±10% and 50Hz is the dominant combination - even Papua New Guinea conforms! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorks5stringer Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 [u]I[/u] bought a hard wired powered monitor from Thomann, they thoughfully included a shaver type convertor for the 2 pin plug. My MarkBass amp from somewhere else european came with a euro plug, but I had loads of kettle leads anyway. i guess the only other issue is if you buy from abroad, and have a problem, it could take longer to resolve if it has to go back to the retailer. Luckily my Mark Bass amp failed after 18 months into a 2 year euro warranty, if I'd bought it in the UK I would have only got one year( and may have had problems holding them to EEC legislation) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_S Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Just one specific caveat that I know of first-hand, that being Tech21. I don't know about their amps, but the RBI, RPM and I believe PSA rack preamps come in 230v and 240v variants, and if you plug the 230v version in across here it'll work for about 5 mins (just long enough to get everything to ironing-temperature) then go POP! and that's it.. game over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markstuk Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Seems a little sensitive as the UK's nominal 230V is legally allowed to swing from 216 to 253 V and I would hope any device supplied in the UK would not expire through 10V overload over a nominal 230 or 240 V... [quote name='Ed_S' timestamp='1332174118' post='1584288'] Just one specific caveat that I know of first-hand, that being Tech21. I don't know about their amps, but the RBI, RPM and I believe PSA rack preamps come in 230v and 240v variants, and if you plug the 230v version in across here it'll work for about 5 mins (just long enough to get everything to ironing-temperature) then go POP! and that's it.. game over. [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_S Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 [quote name='markstuk' timestamp='1332174992' post='1584304'] Seems a little sensitive as the UK's nominal 230V is legally allowed to swing from 216 to 253 V and I would hope any device supplied in the UK would not expire through 10V overload over a nominal 230 or 240 V... [/quote] Yeah, I thought I'd be fine with the 230V version from Thomann, but in the event, blew up a £300 preamp ..still they were very nice about it and gave me a refund on the grounds that they thought it was strange, too. We had the same thing at work with a new substation for our re-build that had been tapped a bit high at about 265V and killed all the power supplies for one particular model of Netgear switch whilst leaving everything else. Suppose it just depends what tolerances things are made to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibody Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 You can get adapters for the "Euro" Plugs from Maplins and the like. My PF500 (despite being sold in this country) came with a Euro plug kettle lead from new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted March 21, 2012 Share Posted March 21, 2012 [quote name='markstuk' timestamp='1332174992' post='1584304'] Seems a little sensitive as the UK's nominal 230V is legally allowed to swing from 216 to 253 V and I would hope any device supplied in the UK would not expire through 10V overload over a nominal 230 or 240 V... [/quote] Me too. Sounds like poor design to me. Mains power is notoriously subject to variations and a good power supply designer can easily cope with such things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1332356608' post='1587294'] Me too. Sounds like poor design to me. Mains power is notoriously subject to variations and a good power supply designer can easily cope with such things. [/quote] +1 You really have to go some to make a PSU fail because of a mere 10V variation. Sounds more like a sales & marketing solution to grey imports to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_S Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 [quote name='icastle' timestamp='1332376897' post='1587599'] +1 You really have to go some to make a PSU fail because of a mere 10V variation. Sounds more like a sales & marketing solution to grey imports to me. [/quote] Well, whatever the marketing department did to make that 10V tip the balance sure got the PSU hot enough! This is what's screened onto the back of every Tech21 mains powered unit I've ever seen, btw.. [attachment=103135:sansamp_rbi_power.jpeg] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 [quote name='Ed_S' timestamp='1332401096' post='1587660'] This is what's screened onto the back of every Tech21 mains powered unit I've ever seen, btw.. [/quote] It'd be interesting to see what the physical differences are between the 230V and 240V models actually are. Certainly something funny going on because near enough every other manufacturer would have just gone for the 240V and 117V options. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 Of course, the PSU in question could have failed for all sorts of reasons other than and extra 10 volts at the input. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_S Posted March 22, 2012 Share Posted March 22, 2012 [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1332442214' post='1588519'] Of course, the PSU in question could have failed for all sorts of reasons other than and extra 10 volts at the input. [/quote] Well, I emailed Tech21 after the fact (more out of interest than anything else as I'd already got my refund by then) and they confirmed that what I'd experienced wasn't out of the ordinary, and that UK users needed the 240V version. I've had a look and can't find the email from all those years back, but I do recall the tech who replied was called Lloyd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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