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Flatwounds and 'The Mix'. Is it just me, or....


wateroftyne
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[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1332175295' post='1584318']
What rubbish studios and engineers are you using these days?

Do they ever stick their heads into the live room to hear the sound coming out of the amps?

Name and shame I say.
[/quote]

Really, really, really good ones, albeit ones who have a blind spot of flatwound strings on a bass. It's so strange.

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What strings you're using is irrelevant. It's all about the sound coming out of the speakers and how it fits into the overall mix.

Putting on my producers/engineers hat for a moment.

If I was recording your band, the first thing I'd do is stick my head into the live room and listen to you playing and the sound you were getting before making any decisions about how to actually record the bass. This should be the sound that you've been using up to now and one that the rest of the band are used to hearing. My job would be to accurately capture this. I'd only make any comments if I really thought that it wasn't working in the band context.

If I'd got you in to play bass on a session, then it would most likely be because I knew and liked your style in sound and note choices and that's why I'd hired you. If it turned out that the sound wasn't working in the context of the track once all the parts started going down I would either ask if you had a bass with a more appropriate sound, or just admit that for this song I'd hired the wrong person and get someone else in the do the bass part.

It's all about listening and discussing with the musicians what they want. If the band is the client then AFAIAC they are right. If I felt strongly that a different bass sound might be better, I would mention it, but in the end it's down to the band. If I'm the client and bass sound isn't working then I'd try a different bass or even a different bassist, rather than trying to get a completely different sound out of a recorded track. Why this isn't obvious I don't know.

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Have to agree with BigRedX...

A good engineer gets a good sound regardless. Ive never had a problem with engineers and flats before, but if the engineer is struggling with your flats, surely you wouldnt just accept a crap sound. You would explain how youve gotten a good sound with flats before and take control of/responsibility for your sound.

But again, that problem shouldnt occur, because a good engineer wont have a problem with it.

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I suspect a lot of live sound guys are lazy and stick to the same EQ each time rather than listening. I've played in a few venues where all the highs and most of the mids are rolled off the bass in the FOH. If the sound man has his EQ set up to do this to a typical roundwound bass sound, it's going to be even worse with flats!

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[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1332223021' post='1584961']
It's just me, then. :-)
[/quote]

No, it's the numpty engineers you've been saddled with.

If the sound that's coming out of your amp isn't the same as the same you are hearing in the control room on play back, either the engineers are crap in which case they should be sacked or they lack the communication skills to explain why they've made the decision to change your sound (in which case they also should be sacked).

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Before I quit the band (now Im moving), we did our own sound. Now, the band was only 3 members, so acoustic guitar/vocals, bass/vocals, drums/vocals. That's it. Working that sound is SO easy its ridiculous. On the occasion we have hired/the organiser has hired a sound engineer, (three times out of thirty-forty gigs) he was absolutely brilliant. I don't think I've ever worked with such a good sound engineer, and he works all over Europe for large shows, so I really appreciated him. The sound engineer only ever worked with us when I used a P bass, and it was with nickels/fingerstyle for the whole gig. I used rented backline, and I just turned up, plugged in, soundchecked, played. Barely any EQ'ing from the amp. IMO, a P bass sounds like a P bass, and it just works. Yes, you can totally change it from the The Stranglers grindy mid tone with a pick to a more subdued fingerfunk tone in a few seconds, but its still a P. I'm guessing you have much more experience with live work, P's and flats as well compared to me, but I think I have been lucky in the past year as things have just worked. Strangely enough, more recently I've realised what I really care about is the audience having a good time, so I've tended to be less picky than some might think I am when it comes to live sound. For our last 4 or 5 gigs, I strung my Stingray with flats. Its a 3EQ, but to me, I still sound like me no matter what I do. Flats/rounds, whatever. The flats do seem to have a tiny bit more 'ommphh' to them, but maybe that is just my imagination. Every gig it has just nailed it. I'm probably also lucky that we only had three members, and we all just wanted to enjoy it and get a good 'band sound', instead of individual parts.

Edited by Musicman20
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Yeah - situations like that where you have lots of sonic space is lovely.

I think lots of engineers do have a fixed idea of 'bass' and fail to adapt if it's not a J with rounds. It is strange, because these are guys who are otherwise spot-on.

Of course, Joe Public couldn't care less....

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only once in all the recording studios i've recorded in has the engineer/producer actually got (what i would consider) a decent bass sound down to tape.

the pecking order seems to be vocals, guitar, drums, bass.

even with a miked cab, it seems overly compressed DI rules the day...

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A decent sound to tape is not too hard.

Getting that sound to sit right in the final mix, with everything else going on in the arrangement, such that it still sounds like the same sound, and doesnt step on the rest of the arrangements toes unduly.....

...thats the magic bit

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[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1332230892' post='1585001']
I suspect a lot of live sound guys are lazy and stick to the same EQ each time rather than listening. I've played in a few venues where all the highs and most of the mids are rolled off the bass in the FOH. If the sound man has his EQ set up to do this to a typical roundwound bass sound, it's going to be even worse with flats!
[/quote]
Sounds perfect - that's exactly what I always ask for.
For me, bass is bass - the keys and guitars can have the mids and treble.

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