wateroftyne Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 ...do most engineers these days, in the studio or on a live environment, struggle with bass when it's strung with flats? They seem to think 'Oh.. flats. I must EQ it into an undefined thump.', or they EQ it like rounds, and it sound crap. Rant over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiamPodmore Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 The last (And only) gig i did with flats i was having problems hearing myself on the lower notes. Love my flats, but i'll probably only gig them again in certain situations. Liam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 I've played with rounds and the engineer seemed to think I wanted y P bass to sound like a rickenbacker... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 What rubbish studios and engineers are you using these days? Do they ever stick their heads into the live room to hear the sound coming out of the amps? Name and shame I say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted March 19, 2012 Author Share Posted March 19, 2012 [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1332175295' post='1584318'] What rubbish studios and engineers are you using these days? Do they ever stick their heads into the live room to hear the sound coming out of the amps? Name and shame I say. [/quote] Really, really, really good ones, albeit ones who have a blind spot of flatwound strings on a bass. It's so strange. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 What's the session? Is it for your band or are you there as a session player for someone else? Is there a producer involved? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted March 19, 2012 Author Share Posted March 19, 2012 It's an opinion formed over the last 5, 10 years or so of gigs and recordings. IME, some engineers 'get it'. Most don't... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raggy Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Have had it happen live before, not always though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redstriper Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Never had a sound engineer ask what kind of strings I use. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 What strings you're using is irrelevant. It's all about the sound coming out of the speakers and how it fits into the overall mix. Putting on my producers/engineers hat for a moment. If I was recording your band, the first thing I'd do is stick my head into the live room and listen to you playing and the sound you were getting before making any decisions about how to actually record the bass. This should be the sound that you've been using up to now and one that the rest of the band are used to hearing. My job would be to accurately capture this. I'd only make any comments if I really thought that it wasn't working in the band context. If I'd got you in to play bass on a session, then it would most likely be because I knew and liked your style in sound and note choices and that's why I'd hired you. If it turned out that the sound wasn't working in the context of the track once all the parts started going down I would either ask if you had a bass with a more appropriate sound, or just admit that for this song I'd hired the wrong person and get someone else in the do the bass part. It's all about listening and discussing with the musicians what they want. If the band is the client then AFAIAC they are right. If I felt strongly that a different bass sound might be better, I would mention it, but in the end it's down to the band. If I'm the client and bass sound isn't working then I'd try a different bass or even a different bassist, rather than trying to get a completely different sound out of a recorded track. Why this isn't obvious I don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skej21 Posted March 19, 2012 Share Posted March 19, 2012 Have to agree with BigRedX... A good engineer gets a good sound regardless. Ive never had a problem with engineers and flats before, but if the engineer is struggling with your flats, surely you wouldnt just accept a crap sound. You would explain how youve gotten a good sound with flats before and take control of/responsibility for your sound. But again, that problem shouldnt occur, because a good engineer wont have a problem with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted March 20, 2012 Author Share Posted March 20, 2012 It's just me, then. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer of the Bass Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 I suspect a lot of live sound guys are lazy and stick to the same EQ each time rather than listening. I've played in a few venues where all the highs and most of the mids are rolled off the bass in the FOH. If the sound man has his EQ set up to do this to a typical roundwound bass sound, it's going to be even worse with flats! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 [quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1332173072' post='1584266'] ....They seem to think 'Oh.. flats. I must EQ it into an undefined thump.'.... [/quote] Have you thought that they [i]are[/i] getting your sound? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted March 20, 2012 Author Share Posted March 20, 2012 They're not[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1332235531' post='1585082'] Have you thought that they [i]are[/i] getting your sound? [/quote] No, because my tone isn't an undefined thump... :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 [quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1332223021' post='1584961'] It's just me, then. :-) [/quote] No, it's the numpty engineers you've been saddled with. If the sound that's coming out of your amp isn't the same as the same you are hearing in the control room on play back, either the engineers are crap in which case they should be sacked or they lack the communication skills to explain why they've made the decision to change your sound (in which case they also should be sacked). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 TBH with flats I'm either going for big reggae boom or a muted old soul sound, both of which I imagine engineers are pretty familiar with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 [quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1332236004' post='1585093'] ....No, because my tone isn't an undefined thump.... [/quote] Then the engineers need a [i]team talk[/i]! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musicman20 Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 (edited) Before I quit the band (now Im moving), we did our own sound. Now, the band was only 3 members, so acoustic guitar/vocals, bass/vocals, drums/vocals. That's it. Working that sound is SO easy its ridiculous. On the occasion we have hired/the organiser has hired a sound engineer, (three times out of thirty-forty gigs) he was absolutely brilliant. I don't think I've ever worked with such a good sound engineer, and he works all over Europe for large shows, so I really appreciated him. The sound engineer only ever worked with us when I used a P bass, and it was with nickels/fingerstyle for the whole gig. I used rented backline, and I just turned up, plugged in, soundchecked, played. Barely any EQ'ing from the amp. IMO, a P bass sounds like a P bass, and it just works. Yes, you can totally change it from the The Stranglers grindy mid tone with a pick to a more subdued fingerfunk tone in a few seconds, but its still a P. I'm guessing you have much more experience with live work, P's and flats as well compared to me, but I think I have been lucky in the past year as things have just worked. Strangely enough, more recently I've realised what I really care about is the audience having a good time, so I've tended to be less picky than some might think I am when it comes to live sound. For our last 4 or 5 gigs, I strung my Stingray with flats. Its a 3EQ, but to me, I still sound like me no matter what I do. Flats/rounds, whatever. The flats do seem to have a tiny bit more 'ommphh' to them, but maybe that is just my imagination. Every gig it has just nailed it. I'm probably also lucky that we only had three members, and we all just wanted to enjoy it and get a good 'band sound', instead of individual parts. Edited March 20, 2012 by Musicman20 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted March 20, 2012 Author Share Posted March 20, 2012 Yeah - situations like that where you have lots of sonic space is lovely. I think lots of engineers do have a fixed idea of 'bass' and fail to adapt if it's not a J with rounds. It is strange, because these are guys who are otherwise spot-on. Of course, Joe Public couldn't care less.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 (edited) Play him Hazy Shade of Winter by Simon and Garfunkel - because I bet thats where you'd like to be in the mix..... Edited March 20, 2012 by 51m0n Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahpook Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 only once in all the recording studios i've recorded in has the engineer/producer actually got (what i would consider) a decent bass sound down to tape. the pecking order seems to be vocals, guitar, drums, bass. even with a miked cab, it seems overly compressed DI rules the day... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 A decent sound to tape is not too hard. Getting that sound to sit right in the final mix, with everything else going on in the arrangement, such that it still sounds like the same sound, and doesnt step on the rest of the arrangements toes unduly..... ...thats the magic bit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redstriper Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 [quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1332230892' post='1585001'] I suspect a lot of live sound guys are lazy and stick to the same EQ each time rather than listening. I've played in a few venues where all the highs and most of the mids are rolled off the bass in the FOH. If the sound man has his EQ set up to do this to a typical roundwound bass sound, it's going to be even worse with flats! [/quote] Sounds perfect - that's exactly what I always ask for. For me, bass is bass - the keys and guitars can have the mids and treble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4 Strings Posted March 20, 2012 Share Posted March 20, 2012 Difficult to muck up the sound with flats. I have recorded only one song with no eq on the bass at all, plugged straight in and nothing on the recording. A P with flats (Trubass), sounded great straight from the jack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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