'66 Slab Precision...Anyone seen one/got one?

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='slab66' timestamp='1400945327' post='2458434']
I guess we could settle on Telecaster/Precision hybrid! That's what I call mine. Best of both worlds.
[/quote]
Well, like I said, you can of course call it what you like, but I'm just interested to know why anyone would think it would attract the name Telecaster.

I really don't want to pay £30 to read that book to find out.

[Bassman Steve]

Interesting. Thanks for that info.

I'm not sure I'd see that much difference in the sound as a result of the fingerboard being a cap rather than a single unit with a skunk stripe. It was my considered opinion that it was the extra mass in the body that did it. The original Precision (pre-1954) is similarly huge-sounding - albeit with a different pick-up.

I would be genuinely interested to understand how the neck construction makes that difference if anyone can explain.

Edited May 26, 2014 by Bassman Steve

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='Meddle' timestamp='1401137324' post='2460530']
Apparently some guy went into the shop in London, in 1966, and asked for a special [i]Fender Telecaster[/i] bass to be made by Fender. When word got to the Fender plant they set about making a Precision bass that matched the aesthetics of the '50s Telecaster guitars, hence the colour of the finish, the lack of contours, the maple neck and the black pickguard. To all intents and purposes it is a Precision bass with some aesthetic changes. The biggie, that makes the sonic difference, is the construction of the maple neck. The electronics are regular P-bass fare, and there is nothing special going on with the output of the pickups or anything.
[/quote]
OK, thanks for the explanation but I still don't quite get it because "the lack of contours, the maple neck and the black pickguard" are all typical of an early '50s Precision bass just as much as a Telecaster guitar. As for the colour of the finish, surely that's just a custom colour, as you say "aesthetic change", in the normal way. In fact there is nothing about it which could not be considered Precision bass in one way or another; which is probably why it's always been known as a Precision bass.

Still, like I said, people can call it what they want.

[Rick's Fine '52]

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1401179396' post='2460757']
OK, thanks for the explanation but I still don't quite get it because "the lack of contours, the maple neck and the black pickguard" are all typical of an early '50s Precision bass just as much as a Telecaster guitar. As for the colour of the finish, surely that's just a custom colour, as you say "aesthetic change", in the normal way. In fact there is nothing about it which could not be considered Precision bass in one way or another; which is probably why it's always been known as a Precision bass.

Still, like I said, people can call it what they want.
[/quote]

This.

It's a Precision, all day long.

It has a precision shape body, like the originals, and like all other precision shapes (albeit uncontoured)
It has precision pickups and electronics
It has a precision neck (maple cap was an option at this time, and can be seen on many regular sunburst contour precisions of the era)
It has Precision on the headstock, applied by Fender.

Regardless of what some bloke wanted when he went into a shop, all story, what was built, was a Precision.

You can call it what you like, but thats what it is.

Edited May 27, 2014 by Rick's Fine '52

[Cosmo Valdemar]

[quote name='Rick's Fine '52' timestamp='1401181214' post='2460778']

This.

It's a Precision, all day long.

It has a precision shape body, like the originals, and like all other precision shapes (albeit uncontoured)
It has precision pickups and electronics
It has a precision neck (maple cap was an option at this time, and can be seen on many regular sunburst contour precisions of the era)
It has Precision on the headstock, applied by Fender.

Regardless of what some bloke wanted when he went into a shop, all story, what was built, was a Precision.

You can call it what you like, but thats what it is.
[/quote]

I bet he was pissed off when he saw what they had sent him...

[Rick's Fine '52]

[quote name='Cosmo Valdemar' timestamp='1401195516' post='2460991']
I bet he was pissed off when he saw what they had sent him...
[/quote]

I doubt it, he got exactly what he wanted.

If he wanted a telecaster bass, then he would have asked for a reissue of the original single coil P-Bass from '51-'54, that would have been far easier to have described and requested. In fact, in '66, he probably could have bought one of those for less than the price of a new custom order Precision.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='Rick's Fine '52' timestamp='1401200373' post='2461061']
I doubt it, he got exactly what he wanted.

If he wanted a telecaster bass, then he would have asked for a reissue of the original single coil P-Bass from '51-'54, that would have been far easier to have described and requested. In fact, in '66, he probably could have bought one of those for less than the price of a new custom order Precision.
[/quote]
I get your point but in '66, the '51-'54 Precision was called ... er ... a Precision Bass and there were no Telecaster Basses until '68 when the '51 Precision was renamed and reissued. So if he did want a bass based (no pun intended) on the Telecaster guitar it should have been a single cut with two single-coil pickups and Telecaster Bass on the headstock.

But he got a slab-bodied Precision Bass instead.

[Rick's Fine '52]

[quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1401203200' post='2461138']
I get your point but in '66, the '51-'54 Precision was called ... er ... a Precision Bass and there were no Telecaster Basses until '68 when the '51 Precision was renamed and reissued. So if he did want a bass based (no pun intended) on the Telecaster guitar it should have been a single cut with two single-coil pickups and Telecaster Bass on the headstock.

But he got a slab-bodied Precision Bass instead.
[/quote]

Exactly. All reference to these rare instruments and the word telecaster should be stopped. Even the guy who was in charge of production when they made them (virgilio simoni), said it was nowt to do with making a telecaster bass!

[Green Alsatian]

The term 'Telecaster Bass' in the context of the slab Precision, according to Barry Matthews' book 'Fender Bass for Britain: The History of the 1966 Slab-Bodied Precision Bass', came from Arbiter, who imported Fenders at the time. On page 9 of the book, there is a print of the 'Instrumental News' page from an issue of 'Beat Instrumental' harking from July 1966 and it features an article, titled 'New Telecaster Bass'. It reads:

[i]Arbiter announce that they are now handling a new Fender bass. It costs 147 gns and has a Telecaster type body. Interest has been shown in it by many top group bassmen.[/i]

The author's comment at the foot of the page states that this is the only advert that ever appeared for the slab Precision. It's likely that on reading about the slab's body, Arbiter assumed it was a new model and not just a unique run of Precisions.

Edited May 27, 2014 by Green Alsatian

[Rick's Fine '52]

[quote name='Green Alsatian' timestamp='1401214075' post='2461335']
The term 'Telecaster Bass' in the context of the slab Precision, according to Barry Matthews' book 'Fender Bass for Britain: The History of the 1966 Slab-Bodied Precision Bass', came from Arbiter, who imported Fenders at the time. On page 9 of the book, there is a print of the 'Instrumental News' page from an issue of 'Beat Instrumental' harking from July 1966 and it features an article, titled 'New Telecaster Bass'. It reads:

[i]Arbiter announce that they are now handling a new Fender bass. It costs 147 gns and has a Telecaster type body. Interest has been shown in it by many top group bassmen.[/i]

The author's comment at the foot of the page states that this is the only advert that ever appeared for the slab Precision. It's likely that on reading about the slab's body, Arbiter assumed it was a new model and not just a unique run of Precisions.
[/quote]

All true.

Written by a journalist in '66, from an alleged quote from Arbiter, of which no-one at Arbiter has confirmed.

I'm very aware of the history, and quotes etc, but its a Precision, every single part of it.

[Green Alsatian]

I'm in total agreement with both yourself and Essential Tension (ie. it's a Precision) - I posted the above to shed light for others on why some think it's a Telecaster bass and not a Precision. Arbiter (or whoever wrote the article) were mistaken in referring to it as a Telecaster bass, in short. As you'll know, none of the owners who Barry interviews (including John Entwistle) in the book call the slab a Telecaster bass.

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='Green Alsatian' timestamp='1401214075' post='2461335']
The term 'Telecaster Bass' in the context of the slab Precision, according to Barry Matthews' book 'Fender Bass for Britain: The History of the 1966 Slab-Bodied Precision Bass', came from Arbiter, who imported Fenders at the time. On page 9 of the book, there is a print of the 'Instrumental News' page from an issue of 'Beat Instrumental' harking from July 1966 and it features an article, titled 'New Telecaster Bass'. It reads:

[i]Arbiter announce that they are now handling a new Fender bass. It costs 147 gns and has a Telecaster type body. Interest has been shown in it by many top group bassmen.[/i]

The author's comment at the foot of the page states that this is the only advert that ever appeared for the slab Precision. It's likely that on reading about the slab's body, Arbiter assumed it was a new model and not just a unique run of Precisions.
[/quote]
I haven't read any of the books so thanks for that.

To me, that sounds like Arbiter saying '[i]Telecaster type body'[/i] (meaning slab body) and then a sub-editor at Beat Instrumental writing the headline 'New Telecaster Bass' because they don't know what '[i]Telecaster type body'[/i] means[i].[/i]

[Telebass]

Why does the cap neck alter the sound? Who knows? But the body it was not. Entwistle's Frankenstein had a standard contoured body. It also had a neck from a slab, and slab innards. Sounded like a slab. Electronics were entirely standard on the slabs. Not much left.

[EssentialTension]

Larry Taylor with Canned Heat playing a black slab-bodied maple-board Precision at Monterey:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vFOqp-BeJk

[EssentialTension]

Monterey again, John Entwistle with The Who playing a white Precision, is it a slab? Clear shot at 15.33 looks slabbish.

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWU9nNT1oUQ[/media]

Edited May 28, 2014 by EssentialTension

[EssentialTension]

Taylor with flats and Entwistle with rounds? What do you think?

[EssentialTension]

Entwistle playing, I believe, the same bass but much clearer sound here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYIZfb6KFsk

[EssentialTension]

[quote name='Meddle' timestamp='1401388980' post='2463199']
Definitely a slab at Monterey!
[/quote]
Taylor and Entwistle both?

[EssentialTension]

Yes I saw the Alembic room letter.

[EssentialTension]

More Larry Taylor story here too: [url="http://www.fenderforum.com/forum.html?db=&topic_number=699338"]http://www.fenderforum.com/forum.html?db=&topic_number=699338[/url]

[Telebass]

[quote name='Meddle' timestamp='1401310612' post='2462415']


I'm not sure as to why the neck cap would alter the sound. I'm a 'wood agnostic' at times anyway. Even a rosewood neck is, proportionally, mostly maple anyway, so I don't hear the night/day differences that some claim to hear between maple and rosewood....

As you suggest, Entwistle's claims don't stand up to scrutiny. We know that the pickups and electronics didn't internally 'overdrive' as John suggested. It is perhaps worth reflecting on the fact that he was using roundwounds, really low action and a crude bi-amp setup with one amp set to accentuate treble, at a time when bassists were using flatwounds, high action and Ampeg B-15 type tones (or running clean DI feeds in the studio). Bassists were always low in the mix, mixed with the minimum of effort... I have a book from the '70s about mixing recorded music in the studio and the bass is almost a footnote (after several pages of mic placement techniques for guitarist's amps). I think bassists are lampooned as the 'too thick for six strings' meathead, and totally dispensable, member of the band because of the standard attitudes of this era. Stick the bass on last, and do it quietly.

I think any P-bass will sound pretty raucous through Entwistle's late '60s rig. People cite the 1970 Isle of Wight performance as being an example of how a 'normal' P-bass sounds different, compared to the slabs or Frankenstein. However I don't trust the Isle of Wight recording to be captured in the fullest sense. Did the festival techs know he was running two amps? It is a field recording with a nice stereo image, rather than a definitive live album. John is a bit lower in the mix and doesn't have the treble bite to his tone, but this could down to any number of reasons. The dedicated 'treble' amp, presumably a ~100 watt Hiwatt head, would be a lot louder than the ~100 watt bass head dedicated to lower frequencies (I doubt John used a crossover, just spun the knobs on the amps in opposite directions). Therefore the guy behind the soundboard probably mixed the trebly amp lower because 1) it was overpoweringly loud onstage and would need less support in the mains 2) he probably only had one channel spare for the bass on the recording plant, and wanted a bass signal on there. Furthermore, you have to wonder why he was not using Frankenstein that night, and even if the black bass he used instead was his. Perhaps this bass wasn't set up to his low-action standards, which would take considerable trussrod and saddle tweaks to achieve. Who knows?
[/quote]
Personally, I don't think there ever was any particularly different sound to these. Just pointing out that the ONLY difference to a standard instrument was that cap neck, apart from the uncontoured nody, and we know that made no difference.

[Telebass]

[quote name='Meddle' timestamp='1401310612' post='2462415']


I'm not sure as to why the neck cap would alter the sound. I'm a 'wood agnostic' at times anyway. Even a rosewood neck is, proportionally, mostly maple anyway, so I don't hear the night/day differences that some claim to hear between maple and rosewood....

As you suggest, Entwistle's claims don't stand up to scrutiny. We know that the pickups and electronics didn't internally 'overdrive' as John suggested. It is perhaps worth reflecting on the fact that he was using roundwounds, really low action and a crude bi-amp setup with one amp set to accentuate treble, at a time when bassists were using flatwounds, high action and Ampeg B-15 type tones (or running clean DI feeds in the studio). Bassists were always low in the mix, mixed with the minimum of effort... I have a book from the '70s about mixing recorded music in the studio and the bass is almost a footnote (after several pages of mic placement techniques for guitarist's amps). I think bassists are lampooned as the 'too thick for six strings' meathead, and totally dispensable, member of the band because of the standard attitudes of this era. Stick the bass on last, and do it quietly.

I think any P-bass will sound pretty raucous through Entwistle's late '60s rig. People cite the 1970 Isle of Wight performance as being an example of how a 'normal' P-bass sounds different, compared to the slabs or Frankenstein. However I don't trust the Isle of Wight recording to be captured in the fullest sense. Did the festival techs know he was running two amps? It is a field recording with a nice stereo image, rather than a definitive live album. John is a bit lower in the mix and doesn't have the treble bite to his tone, but this could down to any number of reasons. The dedicated 'treble' amp, presumably a ~100 watt Hiwatt head, would be a lot louder than the ~100 watt bass head dedicated to lower frequencies (I doubt John used a crossover, just spun the knobs on the amps in opposite directions). Therefore the guy behind the soundboard probably mixed the trebly amp lower because 1) it was overpoweringly loud onstage and would need less support in the mains 2) he probably only had one channel spare for the bass on the recording plant, and wanted a bass signal on there. Furthermore, you have to wonder why he was not using Frankenstein that night, and even if the black bass he used instead was his. Perhaps this bass wasn't set up to his low-action standards, which would take considerable trussrod and saddle tweaks to achieve. Who knows?
[/quote]
Personally, I don't think there ever was any particularly different sound to these. Just pointing out that the ONLY difference to a standard instrument was that cap neck, apart from the uncontoured body, and we know that made no difference.

[EssentialTension]

That Larry Taylor and John Entwistle sound so different suggest that like any P bass these had a range of different sounds.

[slab66]

[quote name='Telebass' timestamp='1401434551' post='2463497']
Personally, I don't think there ever was any particularly different sound to these. Just pointing out that the ONLY difference to a standard instrument was that cap neck, apart from the uncontoured nody, and we know that made no difference.
[/quote]www.youtube.com/watch?v=rwflWR4YxV0 www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPysUnMpi9g

[slab66]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]www.youtube.com/watch?v=EPysUnMpi9g [/font][/color]

[color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Personally, I think the slab does have a unique sound. I still claim its' a, 'Precision on steroids', as JAE claimed. Ask Craig Addecott, he owns an original and is playing the one I did for him![/font][/color]

Edited June 11, 2014 by slab66