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No more tabs...well...sort of....


Townes1992
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Hey guys,

Thought i'd update you all on my recent progressions and/or failures

For the past 4 years, anytime i have stumbled across a bassline i'd like to learn i've headed straight on the internet to find a tab or a youtube video to aid me in playing, this is all well and good, but i always wanted to learn using my own ear. I think one of the reasons i don't always enjoy doing covers is because i have to rely on other peoples tabs. Well, finally, i have drawn the line!

Yesterday i rounded up the courage to learn the bassline to Pearl Jam's " gonna see my friend ". I've always thought Jeff Ament was pretty sweet, he has a nice smooth sound and thought why not start here. And it actually went okay. In some form or another i've gotten down most of the parts, and they sound sort of accurate. It needs some work i think but its a pretty decent start.
I found the runs of notes fine , it was when the bass slowed down with a single note here and there i struggled with. I've played the song through a few times using my ideas and it seems okay.

I thought i'd continue the trend and have a stab at the all famous "welcome to the jungle", its a lot simpler to play practically but theres alot of variations in this song which is tricky! Nevertheless, i have all the parts written down as i think they should/could be, im yet to paly it through entirely, will give it a shot tomorrow.

Chances are i will use tabs again, but i will only as a last resort if i can resist. Though tiresome and repetitive, i really did enjoy getting down the parts using just my (unamplified) bass and old discman - its good for bass!! I'm sure some of the notes ive made are way off, but hey, its a start.

So all in all, this is pretty happy bass-ing :)!!!

Thanks

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[quote name='JakeBrownBass' timestamp='1332288028' post='1586313']
Out of interest, in what form are you writing them down to come back to later?
[/quote]

I'd be curious too. I normally sketch things out in tab - very much like shorthand, it's useful if you're thinking through something, say at your desk, and you just want to make a quick note of it.

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I don't see the point in TAB. It doesn't tell you how to play the notes, only where they are on the string. That's assuming that they're right in the first place, most you see on the internet are pretty hopeless.

Learn to read and write music, you'll find it so useful. It's so much better to train your ear to pick out the part and then write it out in standard notation.

I'm studying bass at ICMP, you don't see TAB there. Everything they give us is in standard notation, so we're reading pretty much all of the time. It's amazing how fast you pick it up.

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Because my ear skills aren't exactly brilliant, I usually look up the chord progression then noodle till I get something that sounds right - I cue all expression and feel from listening to the original track on youtube or spotify, then I go into the rehearsal room and hammer it out with the band until it sounds good. Obviously I take a lot more care and attention to detail in learning songs with iconic bass lines, I remember spending a month solid trying to get 'I Want You Back' down.

My 2p :)

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it's certainly a lot more rewarding learning a bassline by ear.

i've been doing it as much as i can for the songs for the covers band - it makes me nostalgic for the days before the internet, when unless you bought a book or magazine, you worked everything out yourself.

prolly why i'm still a sucker for a simple bassline ! :)

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[quote name='JakeBrownBass' timestamp='1332288028' post='1586313']
Out of interest, in what form are you writing them down to come back to later?
[/quote]

Hi, I'd write mine out in tab form also, rather poorly though, i dont bother with any correct spacing or bends etc, just the notes so i have something to jog the memory. But with the Pearl Jam song i learnt, i didn't write anything out, and when i hear the song i know pretty much what to play and where my fingers need to be.

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[quote name='Gust0o' timestamp='1332288641' post='1586319']
I'd be curious too. I normally sketch things out in tab - very much like shorthand, it's useful if you're thinking through something, say at your desk, and you just want to make a quick note of it.
[/quote]

+ 1. Its simple and easy haha!

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I thought from the title that this was going to be about learning to read.

It's great that you're finally learning to use your ear...it's amazing,to me,that you've been playing for
4 years and been relying heavily on tablature rather than learning songs by ear.
Now that you've started to move away from tablature,I'd seriously recommend learning how to
read music.

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+1 on learning to read music.

It's good to learn songs by ear & then check the bits you're not sure of against the written piece (online TABs that are accurate are a rarity) but getting the sheet music or the score for the album is a good thing.

Listen to me saying this. The man who started off reading music from a young age & for the past 5 years has been using online tabs! :lol:
Saying that, I only look up chords & make my own bassline from there as we don't do "tribute" covers, but rework a song if we decide to cover it or use the tab as a reference if there's something I can't hear, though I prefer using youtube for the more complex basslines (I got to learn Sir Duke from the choob).

But yeah! Well done on attempting to learn by ear. It should be a musician's first port of call & is the most accurate way to learn a piece. A bit like singing really, if you get the words on line & don't listen to the words in the song, you could be singing anything. Like this guy does...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dptyqVjt1nc&feature=related

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Well done on abandoning Tab.
I've never used any kind of notation - a function of starting to learn before the advent of the intyweb. Nothing I wanted to learn was available in books, etc.
I don't write down any notes. I just practice and commit it to memory.
If I'm learning for a band scenario, I'd favour a rough recording made during rehearsal over a chord chart. At least then I've something to jam along to to reinforce my memory.
It'll certainly improve your ear no end, and that can't be a bad thing.

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I taught myself by listening, with a little tab thrown in for stuff I couldn't work out myself. I suppose it did help that I'd played guitar for five years before starting on the bass. It also came as something of a revelation that a scale is the same set of finger positions wherever you are on the neck, and that a good two-thirds of basslines (in the pop/alt/rock genre at least) all use the same bag of about a dozen moves. Sorry, jazzers. Finding these shortcuts to playing also meant that the need to write stuff down was really reduced.

Once I'd learned those basic elements, I found I could work out pretty much anything within a couple of listens and a couple of practices. I find this pattern-based approach works with teaching as well - even someone who's never lifted a bass guitar before can learn how to get a nice McCartney-esque fill into a simple line within a few weeks.

Of course, I will work hard on the famous bits, but I do find that pretty much the only people who listen to the fine detail of basslines are other bass players, and we're a rare breed out there. So a lot of the time, I just please myself. Sympthetically, of course. Knowing the song and working with a good band you can trust is vital. In this situation though, and of course I make no claims to be an artist of the instrument, but a sympathetic ear and a decent bag of licks will get you miles, without a tab in sight.

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What you need is a cassette player where you can move the tape back and forth in tiny increments and pick out each individual note and learn them that way.......oh, no. That wa 1974.

I recommend Transcribe from seventhstring.com. Its about £30-40 and allows you to slow down cds and audio files without the pitch changing. I currently use it for examining sax solo phrases rather than basslines as bass parts are pretty obvious to me in most cases.

But you really need to learn to write and read music on a stave. Not because you are going to do reading gigs but because it is a great way of recording stuff and it really helps you make sense of the music you are playing. It is not nearly as hard as everyone thinks and really is time well spent.

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Noone is looking down on anyone, mate, just sharing what worked for us in an effort to help someone else move forward. I spent hours working on my car when I was a kid and was always grateful when older/more experienced guys could save me time and aggravation by pointing me in the right direction. Same with DIY. 'Just do it' is a great way to waste a million hours getting to where you could have been years ago.

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[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1332331084' post='1586676']
Noone is looking down on anyone, mate, just sharing what worked for us in an effort to help someone else move forward. I spent hours working on my car when I was a kid and was always grateful when older/more experienced guys could save me time and aggravation by pointing me in the right direction. Same with DIY. 'Just do it' is a great way to waste a million hours getting to where you could have been years ago.
[/quote]

Didn't mean to come of like a knob, I'm in a rather grumpy mood today.

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I make a chord chart, and then the bass line that I hear makes more sense when I try to learn it by ear. Usually, that is enough. I also have a few of my own symbols such as ! which means a stop. If I need more detail then I start Sibelius and make a set of dots. The chord chart also maps out the song by intro/verse/chorus/middle/outro as required; knowing what happens when is just as important as being able to play a groove underneath a chord progression.

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[quote name='charic' timestamp='1332332696' post='1586709']
I'm a tab fiend :P

I use tuxguitar. I can read music on score when I fancy but I find learning quicker this way (I read the tab and the score simultaneously)
[/quote]

If your using the tab for the notes & the notation for the rhythms you are so close to just using notation mate. The smallest amount of work is needed there and will become just as quick for learning.

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[quote name='JakeBrownBass' timestamp='1332334649' post='1586770']
If your using the tab for the notes & the notation for the rhythms you are so close to just using notation mate. The smallest amount of work is needed there and will become just as quick for learning.
[/quote]

I should have probably pointed out that I sight read music for when I play keyboard shouldn't I? ;)

I prefer using a combination of the two. I reposition the tab to suit my playing style but I find it so much easier to sight read :)

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Yeah i did put off learning by ear for a long time, in fear that i wouldn't get too far! Nevertheless, even though i have only learnt a couple songs i'm confident that I can keep this up :).

With regards to reading sheet music, where about would I start haha? Any advice?

Cheers

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[quote name='charic' timestamp='1332334927' post='1586783']
I should have probably pointed out that I sight read music for when I play keyboard shouldn't I? ;)

I prefer using a combination of the two. I reposition the tab to suit my playing style but I find it so much easier to sight read :)
[/quote]

You find it so much easier because you haven't read music enough with your bass. Repositioning the tab is just another step that your mind is having to take to play whats written.

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