Recommendations for powerful sensitive cab

[dan670844]

Arrgh you wanna move furniture! theres only one cab that can do that with conviction. That is a Trace 1818 a 18 inch high efficancy driver in a big box, as this is usually the Job of the FOH. This cab will go down to 26hz if you want, but it doesnt sound like mud, its got pretty good definition. Just sling it under your combo. I would also download the trace brochure, from the website its a very useful document as it has all the specs and suggested cab stacks. If you want any more info, email Charlie Wood at Trace, he knows everything as hes been there since the year dot . [email protected]. Speak to Trace, you will supprised how helpful they are, they are trying hard to build it up again after Gibson knackered it. they make good stuff.

[gjones]

I had the same problem with my new ABM 500 the other week when playing with a loud rock band in a crowded bar. Looking back I now realise that I'd had the pre shape switched on, which boosts the [b]BASS[/b], and also had both the [b]BASS[/b] up on my preamp and the [b]BASS[/b] up on the EQ. All this [b]BASS[/b] meant that the VU meter was continually in the red resulting in distortion and lack of volume even though I had the master up full. I'll be playing again with them tomorrow and this time I'll keep the pre shape OFF and either turn the [b]BASS[/b] up on my pre amp or the [b]BASS[/b] up on the ABM EQ..................but not both at the same time.

Edited March 24, 2012 by gjones

[Truckstop]

Try a Gramma Pad. Might help a little? About £45 and if it doesnt help you can sell it on here and recoup most of your cash.

Honestly though, if you think a Firebass 700 didnt go low enough, I think you have/are after a terrible bass tone and I don't think any accessories will/would save it from being a horrid muddy swampy mess. I think if you can't get a usable sound out of your current rig (and at a loud enough volume) you need to seriously rethink how you and your guitarist are EQing things.

I'd also echo someone elses comments that you should get your ears checked. You'd be surprised how poor hearing can colour your bass tone. I know, I've been deaf all my life and didnt realise how much worse it was getting after spending 5 years exposed to high volumes without earplugs. Got some hearing aids and now I can hear the full range my bass rig has to offer and I've improved it no end! The same EQ I used 2 years ago sounds dreadful to me now.

Truckstop

[hamfist]

[quote name='bassman2790' timestamp='1332611274' post='1590738']
I don't have a problem with cutting through the mix or volume, If I cut out a lot of the sub 100Hz I can easily drown out everyone else but the sound is too thin for what I need
[/quote]

Sounds to me like you don't have a volume or frequency issue, but maybe just a too clean a sound issue.

Very clean bass tones can sound very thin indeed in a one guitar rock band situation. Adding some overdriven harmonics with a pedal may well be what you are needing. Fattens the sound up no end. i like the EBS Multidrive for this.

[Guest MoJo]

[quote name='hamfist' timestamp='1332664220' post='1591205']
Sounds to me like you don't have a volume or frequency issue, but maybe just a too clean a sound issue.

Very clean bass tones can sound very thin indeed in a one guitar rock band situation. Adding some overdriven harmonics with a pedal may well be what you are needing. Fattens the sound up no end. i like the EBS Multidrive for this.
[/quote]

I have a Darkglass B3K, I'll try that at the next gig

[Guest MoJo]

[quote name='dan670844' timestamp='1332625258' post='1590983']
I would also download the trace brochure, from the website its a very useful document as it has all the specs and suggested cab stacks.[/quote]

Could you possibly post a link to the download, I'm struggling to find it on the site? Thanks

[Conan]

[quote name='bassman2790' timestamp='1332494507' post='1588990']I play in a rock covers band and currently run a Trace 1215 with a 1518 extension cab. On paper, this rig should be more than ample for my requirements but, as with previous rigs, I find it lacking and have to have the output control on about 5 or 6 (about as loud as it'll go) to provide enough body for the four piece outfit I'm with.
[/quote]
[quote name='bassman2790' timestamp='1332611274' post='1590738']I don't have a problem with cutting through the mix or volume, I can easily drown out everyone else but the sound is too thin for what I need[/quote]

OK, now I'm confused! What exactly do you "find lacking" if you are capable of drowning out the rest of the band? But at the same time your tone doesn't have enough "body"? If you can only get that volume by cutting the bass frequencies then that should tell you something.

As has already been suggested, you would seem to be in need of a much more powerful amp so that it can boost the (very inefficient) low frequencies and still have enough juice left to boost everything else!! I don't think your cabs are the issue. Despite having their detractors, TE make very good gear, as long as yours isn't damaged of course.

All IMHO of course!

Edited March 25, 2012 by Conan

[Guest MoJo]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1332665675' post='1591216']
OK, now I'm confused! What exactly do you "find lacking" if you are capable of drowning out the rest of the band? But at the same time your tone doesn't have enough "body"? If you can only get that volume by cutting the bass frequencies then that should tell you something.
[/quote]

I'm sure that, if someone came to one of our gigs, they wouldn't have an issue hearing the bass but I've read many posts on this forum where someone states that they never need to have their amp above 2 or 3 on the output (or at nine 'o' clock). The guitarist in our band plays a Les Paul through a Blackstar Studio HT20 head into a Blackstar 2x12 cabinet. His tone is not bottom heavy and leaves a lot of room, sonically for the bass. If I left my EQ completely flat, 2 or 3 on the output control, it would be plenty for me to be heard but, in my opinion, the sound would be too thin (and quite harsh sounding), removing some of the 800Hz and boosting the 60-150Hz frequencies thickens out the sound but with a perceptible drop in presence. Turning up the output to 5 or 6 brings me back, volume-wise to where I was before EQ'ing but now the clip light on the output starts to flicker. I want to know how these other posters can achieve a thick full sound with a 30watt Little Bastard and a 2x12 cabinet that I cannot achieve with a 500watt Trace Elliot amp and two Trace 15" cabs

Edited March 25, 2012 by bassman2790

[Conan]

[quote name='bassman2790' timestamp='1332667659' post='1591251'] I want to know how these other posters can achieve a thick full sound with a 30watt Little Bastard and a 2x12 cabinet that I cannot achieve with a 500watt Trace Elliot amp and two Trace 15" cabs
[/quote]

A very reasonable question!

[Guest MoJo]

I have a tone in my head and try to EQ the amp for each bass to achieve that tone. Amazingly, I love the tone I get from my Promethean P5110 but it has nowhere near enough low end projection to gig with. My favourite tone is my little Peavey Max 158. Everything flat, any bass sounds great through it. I have tried shifting the Trace gear a couple of times both on here and on ebay and have offered both the combo and cab up for less than some folks want for the combo alone but have had no takers so, it looks like I'm stuck with it. I bought it on the strength of hearing another local band where the bass player had a 1210 and the bass was really driving. I tried copying his settings but couldn't recreate that wall of sound that he got.

[Conan]

Is it worth trying the Promethean amp through the Trace cabs?

[Guest MoJo]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1332675122' post='1591388']
Is it worth trying the Promethean amp through the Trace cabs?
[/quote]

I tried that without success unfortunately

[hamfist]

[quote name='bassman2790' timestamp='1332674871' post='1591385']
I tried copying his settings but couldn't recreate that wall of sound that he got.
[/quote]

Yup "wall of sound" is going to involve overdrive of some kind IMO.

I've not played one but from all accounts your Darkglass should do the trick nicely.

[Raggy]

The other thing about it I am wondering is have you put a long lead on and tried to get as far away out front as you can?

I use a very bass heavy tone (Dubster/Streamliner) and thought it sounded great on stage, until I stood out front and realised I had to alter my eq a touch to push through.

[Lozz196]

Hmmmm. Two single TE 15s. I`d be tempted to swap one of those for a TE 210 or 410. More speakers, tighter low end. Strange as it may seem, this would probably make the low end seem a lot thicker - due to much more air being moved, plus being able to hear the notes as well as feel them. My old Marshall MB setup at one point was the seperate head and 115 cab. Could either feel the bass, or hear it, but never the two. But, when I got the 410, instead of the 115, suddenly I had both.

Edited March 25, 2012 by Lozz196

[GRAHAM SG1]

Cant go wrong with Barefaced

[dan670844]

[quote name='bassman2790' timestamp='1332667659' post='1591251']


I'm sure that, if someone came to one of our gigs, they wouldn't have an issue hearing the bass but I've read many posts on this forum where someone states that they never need to have their amp above 2 or 3 on the output (or at nine 'o' clock). The guitarist in our band plays a Les Paul through a Blackstar Studio HT20 head into a Blackstar 2x12 cabinet. His tone is not bottom heavy and leaves a lot of room, sonically for the bass. If I left my EQ completely flat, 2 or 3 on the output control, it would be plenty for me to be heard but, in my opinion, the sound would be too thin (and quite harsh sounding), removing some of the 800Hz and boosting the 60-150Hz frequencies thickens out the sound but with a perceptible drop in presence. Turning up the output to 5 or 6 brings me back, volume-wise to where I was before EQ'ing but now the clip light on the output starts to flicker. I want to know how these other posters can achieve a thick full sound with a 30watt Little Bastard and a 2x12 cabinet that I cannot achieve with a 500watt Trace Elliot amp and two Trace 15" cabs
[/quote]


To be fair my LB is used mostly for rehearsal, studio and home. But I find that it always cuts through, first time I tried it, it blew me away, the tone is something else. I bought it on a wim, cause I heard someone say it sounded like a B15, well it sounds different to an Ampeg, its has a fairly unique, but amazing tone. It is a classic amp, if it was made in the 60s people would be drooling over it. The depth of the sound is pretty amazing like 3 dimensional, tube heads will know what I mean, and it has a lot of punch and clarity, thats one personality then it can get all raw, lots of harmonics and very mild distortion, that sits in a rock mix perfectly. With the lb212 cab, in rehearsals it will keep up with Fake Billys 50 watt Marshall with a 2x12 but thats in a fairly small rehearsal room. I think why it can keep up is basically it has a lot of harmonic distortion, but not how you think, not crunchy distortion, but the harmonics of the note are reinforced, so if you play E I guess it plays a lot of harmonics an octave lower and higher. Go try one, buy one, it has made me completly rethink my amp setup. It needs the right cab though. As I mentioned the Traynor YBA 200 and YBA300 are nice amps as well and they are light modern designs you dont need a tech to look after them you can change tubes and bias yourself.
My advice would be as others have said would be to get hold of a Sansamp pedal and set it to SVT mode with a bit of gain so it grinds, go straight into the power amp on the trace. Then you will have a very versatile system, the trace preamp is good for all other styles, except the rock thing! Your amp has plenty of power. I would also ditch the 1518 and get a 1048H, as another has said there could be some weird sh*t going on with those two , im no expert, just a sad ole bass player. But those cabs although both 15s are tuned differently. I anyone is interested Trace and Ashdown and Laney cabs for that matter are tuned to work together as a pair to give a full range stack

The normal combinations are 2x10 and big 15 cab, 4x10 and 15 compact, or big 15, 2x10 and 18, 4x10 and 18. Stick to these and you wont go wrong. Trace cabs are now more full range than of old, with Ashdown and Laney they follow the more classical design.
So to get that perfect tight deep and sound with ABM cabs for example you need two cabs as the 2 and 410 are tuned higher. I.e a 10 and a 15 together the 10 for punch and clarity and the 15 for the low end extension. The classical style like the ABM is better I think as the drivers are usuallly more sensitive.

[JTUK]

I would still say that a good 410 is still the cab to beat... altho I am a fan of 2x210's for the carry aspect.
For a 212 to get near that..or 2x112 you will have your work cut out, IMO...but then you also need to factor
in other compromises...which most of us have to accomodate so it comes down to the individual, as always.

[markstuk]

Although I have a Proline EBS410 and Barefaced S12T sitting next to each other and even if I discount the weight/size thing, the S12T is the better sounding cab to me...

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1332764146' post='1592663']
I would still say that a good 410 is still the cab to beat... altho I am a fan of 2x210's for the carry aspect.
For a 212 to get near that..or 2x112 you will have your work cut out, IMO...but then you also need to factor
in other compromises...which most of us have to accomodate so it comes down to the individual, as always.
[/quote]

[Conan]

[quote name='dan670844' timestamp='1332716268' post='1592158']
the 10 for punch and clarity and the 15 for the low end extension. [/quote]

Calling Alex Claber!!

My BF Vintage has two fifteens in it. It has by far the greatest amount of midrange punch and clarity of any cab I have used. When I used two Ashdown 410s I found that they had loads of bottom end and top end fizz, but lacked middle.

The old chestnut about speaker diameter affecting tone is obsolete.

[dan670844]

Well those cabs do! Maybe twenty years out of date but it works.... Driver size has nothing to do with how low a speaker can go, that argument is out of date! Those manufacturers that I mentioned make full range split stacks i.e two cabs in various configarations, depending on the application. They also make standalone single cabs and multiples. Horses for courses. I agree the whole amp thing is changing however. I rarely these days actually use an amp live, its mostly for show, and or my personal enjoyment!

[Conan]

[quote name='dan670844' timestamp='1332800590' post='1593452']
Well those cabs do! Maybe twenty years out of date but it works.... [/quote]

Depends how they are wired up? If they have some sort of internal crossover feeding only the lower frequencies to the fifteen then yes, I would agree.

[dan670844]

[quote name='dan670844' timestamp='1332529732' post='1589749']
Iif its any help im playing In the zz top cover band Tres hombres at the moment, for a few shows, haha! ( helping a mate out, the beard is itchy though!) Im primarily a funk reggae bass player so this is all new to me! I usually play pretty clean.I used my trace smx head in the first rehearsal it sounded sh*t, to clean, too focussed, there was something missing in the sound, didnt fill out the huge space inbeetween the drums and that single geetar! Next rehearsal i brought along my ashdown little bastard 30 watt through their lb212 cab turned it up full! cranked the mids and there it was, that little amp plugged that big hole. Cant be the power of the amp, the smx is 1200 watts, i think its all that harmonic distortion filling in all the gaps, from the lowest lows to rhythm guitar territory. it was pretty stunning ( rehearsal volume though) Im using a traynor yba300 for this gig through a basssysteme 6x10 cab, its an awesome amp, only 800 quid from thommann.de. I tried the yba 200 (500 quid and yes it is loud enough!) as well also a great amp. Bombproof and insanely light at 19kg and 23kg respectively. trace cabs are great they are quite sensitive over 100db if you check the spec, as are the Ashdown ABMs and Mags, just turn the tweater off else it sounds nasty and crank that gain, i think if you paired your 1518 with a tweater off 1028 , and one of these traynors you will be sorted. if your rich check out the Ashdown CTM and the small block, they are in a different league.
[/quote]


UPDATE! Just ordered a Ashdown CTM 300, wow what an amp, worth every penny, most amazingly well made and best sounding amp I have ever heard and I mean that!!

[dan670844]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1332834743' post='1593603']
Depends how they are wired up? If they have some sort of internal crossover feeding only the lower frequencies to the fifteen then yes, I would agree.
[/quote]

Nope the amp has the crossover my SMX is a Bi amp design