amplification / feedback woes*NOW CURED*

[artisan]

i played my 2nd DB gig last night & really sturggled with my GK MB210 nearly all night.
the main problem was the amount of volume it produces, we had a drummer last night so everyone had to play a little louder & i just couldn't get enough volume from it,i messed with the eq,lifted it off the floor etc' but to no avail.
i ended up with the gain half way,any more just caused feedback, the master volume was on full & i had just enough power,in a larger venue i'd be buggered (we don't have a meaty P.A.).
i read a few online reviews before buying this & all said this amp' was loud which with a BG it may be but with my DB it's pretty gutless
i can still return it to Thomann which is good but i can't decide between getting the GK MB212 which is 500w or getting a GK extension cab which will give me 500w from my amp.

i was getting horrendous feedback problems too,i tried using a Fishman platinum pro but this didn't really seem to help much at all,then i tried a cheapo Rocktek eq pedal which was much better & i managed to dial the feedback out with that,so i may just buy a Boss bass eq.

so a pretty stressfull gig but by the 2nd set i'd managed to get a decent sound but it felt like i was really pushing my amp to get there but the sound wasn't overly loud,i really need more power-what to do.

Edited November 25, 2012 by artisan

[TPJ]

Sounds like you were having eq problems. Did you dial out everything from 100-180hz and below? That may free up some headroom and give you less feed back as well as give a clearer sound. The PA is your friend if you are playing anything bigger than small pubs. Plus, IME, the drums can really mess up the DB.

[keeponehandloose]

Wouldnt blame the amp to be honest.
Feedback issues are usually due to instrument/
Pick up issues.
A good place to start is check the bridge position.
It should sit with about half the foot directly over the soundpost. This would put the front edge of bridge inline with nicks in the F holes.
Move it more on top of soundpost and the sound will tighten up and get less feedback friendly.
Move it away and you get a more bassy open sound.
Pickups are personal choice but a Fishman Pro Plat should have sorted any other issues out.
Once all that is sorted you should be able to get a decent gigging sound from most amps

[artisan]

thanks for the replies but it's not really the feedback that's the main problem it's the lack of volume i'm getting,the amp is rated at 350watts to i expected it to be pretty loud but it's not loud at all.
by the second set i'd cut a lot of bottom end & got a pretty decent sound but even on max it was only just loud enough,i think i need a bigger amp.

[fatback]

[quote name='artisan' timestamp='1332844522' post='1593761']
thanks for the replies but it's not really the feedback that's the main problem it's the lack of volume i'm getting,the amp is rated at 350watts to i expected it to be pretty loud but it's not loud at all.
by the second set i'd cut a lot of bottom end & got a pretty decent sound but even on max it was only just loud enough,i think i need a bigger amp.
[/quote]

+1 to killing those very low frequencies.

Is that 350w into 4ohms or 8? If you're not getting all of 350 and the drummer is loudish you may well struggle.

[thisnameistaken]

If it's quiet it could be your pickup isn't producing a very strong signal. Which pickup are you using?

A friend of mine tested a realist, full circle and my bassmax back to back last week and said the bassmax - when it had a good fit - was considerably louder than the others. It's still a lot quieter than the mag pups on a bass guitar though.

[Mr Bassman]

I use the MB210 for my louder gigs and I've always had plenty volume / headroom.

The combo is bass heavy, I often have the bass control around 1/ 4 - 1/3

I never have the master past 1 0clock

The Mitre is a small venue, I would normally take the MB200 head and a single UL110 to a venue that size.

All I can think is the rest of the band are too loud.

If they want to play authentic sounding rock & roll with double bass they should cut the volume to suit.

Who was on drums? Animal?

P.s.

Don't forget the phase switch, can work wonders if you are close to the speakers, which I guess you were at the mitre.

Edited March 27, 2012 by Mr Bassman

[marvin spangles]

[quote name='Mr Bassman' timestamp='1332845721' post='1593784']
I use the MB210 for my louder gigs and I've always had plenty volume / headroom.

The combo is bass heavy, I often have the bass control around 1/ 4 - 1/3

I never have the master past 1 0clock

The Mitre is a small venue, I would normally take the MB200 head and a single UL110 to a venue that size.

All I can think is the rest of the band are too loud.

If they want to play authentic sounding rock & roll with double bass they should cut the volume to suit.

Who was on drums? Animal?

P.s.

Don't forget the phase switch, can work wonders if you are close to the speakers, which I guess you were at the mitre.
[/quote]
What Bass man said. The band are either too loud or you are having issues with the Pick up / bass .

[artisan]

cheers guys,i checked my pickup (Bassmax) & tried it in both sides of my bridge but this made no real difference,the pickup is a pretty tight fit in the wing too.
the band aren't overly loud althought i did ask them to turn down a tad,which they ignored btw, but they weren't particularly loud,it's maybee just me putting too much bottom through it,i'll keep trying.

btw my amp is 350w @8ohm or 500w @4ohm

Edited March 27, 2012 by artisan

[fatback]

350w @ 8 should be plenty loud enough. That's a tad more than I have, and our drummer is loud. Assuming you've cut the lows, sounds like it's the feedback preventing you turning up enough.

I was advised on here to find the feedback frequency characteristic of my bass and always use an eq setting (notch filter in my case) that cut that out, which helped. As Mr. Bassman says, the phase switch might help too. Other than that, you need to point the speaker away from the bass. Raising it up is a big help too, but I found if I raised it more than about 20" I lost too much volume.

Other factors maybe in play? Steel strings are said to feed back more than synthetic. Also, the pickup/bass combination. I had much more feedback trouble with a Bassmax than I do now with a Full Circle. Other basses may favour other pickups.

I doubt it's the amp, from what you've said.

Edited March 27, 2012 by fatback

[artisan]

thanks fatback,i'm pretty sure your right it's most likley my e.q.'ing, if i plug my BG into this amp it's BLOODY LOUD
i'll have to experiment with it some more for a few days if i have no luck then its back to Thomann via their 30 day money back guarantee.

[artisan]

[quote name='Mr Bassman' timestamp='1332845721' post='1593784']


Who was on drums? Animal?
[/quote]

no it wasn't mr Phillips
the drummer wasn't that loud really,my brother reckons his amp was on the same setting as it was at the Harlow the other week so overall about the same level.

[fatback]

Have you tried it at home with the speaker pointed away so you don't get feedback, and see how loud it gets?

[artisan]

i live in a sh*te terraced house with paper thick walls so i can't really do that without upsetting the whole street.
at the next rehersal or gig i may try the amp a few feet infront of me & see how that works,never tried that on sunday.
i've shoved some high density foam under the tail piece,between the body top & fingerboard + wrapped some around the string over lenght too,most likley won't help but worth a go.

Edited March 27, 2012 by artisan

[artisan]

ok chaps,i have just been messing with my amp's at home while the neighbours were out & i definately don't like the GK,gain on 1/2,volume on 1/2 not all that loud to be honest,sounds ok but not really loud.
my Roland gain on 1/3,vloume on less than 1/4 = pretty damn loud,turn it up a bit & it's much louder than the GK,when i first got my DB i couldn't get a decent sound from my Roly but i've just tried the plat' pro' (which Mr Bassman very kindly let me borrow) & it sounds good.(the Roland has a propper piezo input too)
so looks like the GK will be on its way back to Germany & i'll keep my Roland but buy a plat' pro' (fancy selling yours Keith ? )

i had the Roly propper cranked up,but darn't play any notes or me old house'll collapse,& almost managed to tame the feedback it just started if i let go of the strings for a few seconds,so far so good.
cheers.

Edited March 27, 2012 by artisan

[TPJ]

Did you crank the preamp output right up to give a good strong signal into the GK? That might afford you some more volume.

[artisan]

hi Tom,yes indeed i did,had pre's gain & volume at max but still not very loud.

Edited March 28, 2012 by artisan

[Mr Bassman]

Hey Neil,

Clarky is selling his [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/161681-acoustic-image-clarus-head-vgc-l675-30-off-new/"]Clarus[/url] head

It's the same as in my combo which you liked

It has built in phase inversion and low cut notch filter and it's 800w so should keep up with Animal

[artisan]

[quote name='Mr Bassman' timestamp='1332963973' post='1595668']
Hey Neil,

Clarky is selling his [url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/161681-acoustic-image-clarus-head-vgc-l675-30-off-new/"]Clarus[/url] head

It's the same as in my combo which you liked

It has built in phase inversion and low cut notch filter and it's 800w so should keep up with Animal
[/quote]
lol i can't really blame the drummer as he wasn't loud really,we just don't need him to be honest & he's a pretty crap drummer too.

[malcolm.mcintyre]

Feedback often makes my onstage life a misery with acoustic bass. I doubt if it's all your amp's fault, but as it is brand new, the speakers are likely to be very stiff until played in. I have been very surprised but how just much the apparent output/volume of bass cabs can improve after a good few hours use. An extension cab would also help, and I just don't believe you would need more amp power. However, the only real answer is to go through the PA, and just use your amp for your own monitoring.

[slobluesine]

have you tried plugging your f/holes artisan? at least 4 layers of gaffa tape is needed, single layer is no good

[artisan]

[quote name='slobluesine' timestamp='1335799140' post='1636193']
have you tried plugging your f/holes artisan? at least 4 layers of gaffa tape is needed, single layer is no good
[/quote]

i certainly did consider doing just that but i don't want to damage the finish on my bass,thinking that if i remove said tape it may just bring the lacquer off too,can't make a mess of my baby.

i did a gig last saturday using my Roland D-bass 210,big improvement over the G.K. (now long gone) plenty of power & punch,not too much problem with feedback either just a minor eq tweak required.
the gig went very well too,my slap technique seems to be coming on nicely now & earned me a few rounds of applause from the punters,which was nice.
it was a smallish venue one again so we weren't overly loud,no drummer either ......yippeee,however i feel if i'd needed more volume the feedback bug may have reared its ugly head once again.

I've been wondering if a second sound post may be a big help,i'm not bothered about the loss of acoustic volume as i always use an amp anyway.

Edited April 30, 2012 by artisan

[slobluesine]

just put it on for a gig and if it helps find a permanent solution, i tried the double sound post and it made no difference.

my Kay was a nightmare with feedback until i blocked the f/holes and beleive me i can get LOUD now, i'm often told to turn down.
i think the thick gaffa layers also kill some of the excessive vibration from loud drummers/guitarists on the top of the bass.
Schatten RB1 pickup is also great, very loud feedback resistant pup.


invisible f/hole covers..... [url="http://www.doublebasschat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5907"]http://www.doublebasschat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5907[/url]
bit of a frig but i managed it

Edited April 30, 2012 by slobluesine

[artisan]

i'll have to give it a try at my next gig & if it works,which i'm sure it will,i may have a go at making some of those there covers,they look very good indeed,i like my bass pretty loud too.
cheers.

[slobluesine]

good luck, hope it does the trick the invisible covers don't have to be super airtight to work, some folks only plug one side.
you do need lots of gaffer layers tho, it didn't take any varnish off my bass and i did it lots before i fitted the plugs.