Alembic lovers and haters - please advise

[juliusmonk]

So I'm looking at this short scale Alembic bass that looks absolutely gorgeous - but it's 7000 Euro!

I promised myself long ago to never spend that kinda cash on an instrument... Well I underestimated the powers of GAS.

My problem is: I have tried two Alembics in my life: an Epic (which sounded and felt just like any other average, consistent bass, honestly), and a MK signature, which was a big letdown, especially when compared side by side with a Kingbass standard.

However, I keep on seeing widespread Alembic praise (best bass money can buy, etc).

I already have a Zon legacy elite and a Kingbass Artist, but maybe Alembic has something special in the hi fi department? Versatility is not a big selling point for me - if I want a Jazz bass sound I'll look for a JB (and the GAS is also open to that).

Please enlighten me and help me make up my mind. It's too expensive for risking a letdown! Plus it seems Alembics lose half of their value the moment the 'used' tag is put on them.

Other basses I have include my first bass Westone Spectrum II, Yamaha BBG4SII, Ibanez Musician MC924 (1981) and a Tune Bassmaniac.

Many thanks,
Carlos

[daz]

You say
[quote]It's too expensive for risking a letdown! Plus it seems Alembics lose half of their value the moment the 'used' tag is put on them.
[/quote]

The obvious answer to that is to say 'why then, are [i]you[/i] not looking for a used one' ??

Alembic prices are ridiculous anyway. A new [i]Alembic Epic [/i]goes for about $7000 but you can get a mint condition second hand one only a year old for $1500.

I believe that there is something about alembics that make normal people go mad. There is one guy on the Alembic forum, who has paid out $5000 for an Alembic Orion 5 string. He got in in the sale normal price was over $7000. It is [i]so new [/i]that it has not even been built yet. Its still in the alembic factory, and the guy is now selling it for $3000 ! So he's taking a $2000 loss and has not even received it yet!!!!!
[url="http://alembic.com/club/messages/395/126148.html?1332941125"]Click here [/url]to see this[i] poor loon [/i]afflicted with GAS (and then his wife found the credit card receipt ?)

I would[i] never [/i]even contemplate spending that sort of money on [i]any [/i]instrument that I could not try out first. I would advise you to do the same. Unless you are a rich millionaire. [i]You are being seduced by a brand name[/i].

Are you a millionaire ?

(or are you [i]poor loon [/i]number 2 ?)
.

Edited April 2, 2012 by daz

[Kiwi]

Alembics aren't all that different to preCBS Fenders in being considered The Ultimate Bass of their time and something for bass players who grew up in that time to aspire to. I'd count myself in with that group. I remember first reading about Stanley Clarke and seeing his Alembic, then there was John Entwhistle, JPJ, John McVie, even Dexy's Midnight Runners bass player had an Alembic Series bass on one tv show appearance...they looked sexy with lots of controls as if they were made for demanding players.

[Stacker]

To me, they're too 'hi-fi', at least the Series 1 I had was. I found it unwieldy, cumbersome and really didn't enjoy playing it, though it was a beautiful instrument. Can't opine on any of the other models, sorry.

[JTUK]

A freind of mine always wanted a Les Paul and finally got one...it was a big pile of sh*t and he was forever swapping out this and that and it still never sounded great.

For that money you really NEED to try it...

[Kiwi]

...and know what you are looking for is what you expect.

[Kiwi]

BTW, if you are serious about an Alembic, get an early 80's Spoiler. It'll be heavy, and a little dark sounding but it will give you a toe in the water and you could probably sell it for what you paid for it, so long as you don't pay more than 1300 quid. Alternatively there are Persuaders (PJ pickups) and Elans but they're all pretty similar in terms of sound. Series basses seem to be a little more versatile and brighter.

[juliusmonk]

Many thanks! I'm a newbie here and wish I'd joined earlier - excellent advice!

For the record: I wish I was a millionaire.. I'm just in my 40s already! :-) So I just managed to get a new instrument every two or three years... So I guess I am now in the 'now or never' state of mind.

Buying online scares me indeed - a used one would scare me even more I guess. And you are absolutely right: I've tried out hundreds of basses before, enough to learn the try before you buy lesson. Although I am always disappointed that most basses in shops have dead strings, poor (or no) setup... How can one buy anything?

Cumbersome is exactly the word I'd use to describe the Alembics I tried. I was expecting something that would play itself!

Alembic must have the best marketing in the world... Although if you fork out 10k, you better convince yourself that it is the ultimate bass. I can also understand that.

They're definitely beautiful though (the expensive ones)...

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='daz' timestamp='1333335521' post='1600182']
Unless you are a rich millionaire..
[/quote]

I like to think of myself as a poor millionaire.

[Clarky]

My favourite Alembics of the 4 I have owned (Series 1, 2 x Spoilers, Europa 5'er) were the less complex Spoilers. The electronics were not so scary, the build quality still top notch (albeit without the fancy marquetry) and the sound covered from Stanley Clarke through to Metallica. You can get Spoilers s/h for about $2-2.5k and if you don't like, sell on for about the same. To me a low risk way of trying out the Alembic experience. I wish I still had a Spoiler

[Bilbo]

I have only ever played one (A Stanley Clarke, IIRC) and was decidedly unimpressed. In fact, I have only ever really heard one player using an Alembic where I thought 'Wow' and that was Jimmy Johnson. Every other Alembic I have ever heard didn't strike me as anything special. I think they are overrated. But I can't hear the difference between a Fender Jazz and a Precision.

[lozbass]

[indent=1]Having owned four 'higher-end' Alembics (I still have two, a Series II custom standard small body, and a custom SCD) and having played many more, I'd concur with much of the commentary above. Try to listen to those that have some experience with Alembics though - you'll read strong opinions from some that haven't touched an Alembic or that have spent little time with one - they do seem to divide opinion. [/indent] [indent=1]An important issue is set-up - most Alembics that you'll find in shops (admittedly, not many) are not at all well set-up. The set-up for an Alembic is slightly more tricky than for most basses (and two of my favourite bass builders don't really like to touch them). For me, a well set-up Alembic will play beautifully - super-fast and with ludicrously low action (if you want that). Another important issue is the electronics - from Signature up, you're getting a reasonably sophisticated filter system that takes a little getting used-to. Though again, opinions are divided, I'd say that a good Alembic can sound like a lot of other basses (with a bit of effort and accommodation to the filter EQ), but it can have a very distinctive (characteristic?) Alembic tone that can't be easily emulated by other basses.[/indent] [indent=1]I now really only play short-scale Alembics (after trying a lot of other basses from Fodera through Celinder, Sadowsky, Wal, Sei etc. to just about every custom and high-end luthier that you could wish to name). They just fit right for me - I'm certainly too old to speak of 'best' basses in the world, however, don't discount the brand on the negative opinions of others. Just go and try some yourself. If you're in the North of England, you're welcome to try mine. I doubt you'll be disappointed by either the tone, ergonomics, playability or finish. Alembics are expensive, though there is the occasional bargain to be found (I think I know of two in the UK now if you're looking for a used short-scale in excellent condition).[/indent]

Edited April 2, 2012 by lozbass

[chris_b]

It seems that you want a bass like this rather than need it.

I doubt that Alembic would still be in business after some 45 years if the basses weren't worth it but it seems they're not worth it to you.

Move on.
[font=Arial] [/font]

[juliusmonk]

[quote name='lozbass' timestamp='1333365123' post='1600516']
[indent=1]Having owned four 'higher-end' Alembics (I still have two, a Series II custom standard small body, and a custom SCD) and having played many more, I'd concur with much of the commentary above. Try to listen to those that have some experience with Alembics though - you'll read strong opinions from some that haven't touched an Alembic or that have spent little time with one - they do seem to divide opinion. [/indent]

[indent=1]An important issue is set-up - most Alembics that you'll find in shops (admittedly, not many) are not at all well set-up. The set-up for an Alembic is slightly more tricky than for most basses (and two of my favourite bass builders don't really like to touch them). For me, a well set-up Alembic will play beautifully - super-fast and with ludicrously low action (if you want that). Another important issue is the electronics - from Signature up, you're getting a reasonably sophisticated filter system that takes a little getting used-to. Though again, opinions are divided, I'd say that a good Alembic can sound like a lot of other basses (with a bit of effort and accommodation to the filter EQ), but it can have a very distinctive (characteristic?) Alembic tone that can't be easily emulated by other basses.[/indent]

[indent=1]I now really only play short-scale Alembics (after trying a lot of other basses from Fodera through Celinder, Sadowsky, Wal, Sei etc. to just about every custom and high-end luthier that you could wish to name). They just fit right for me - I'm certainly too old to speak of 'best' basses in the world, however, don't discount the brand on the negative opinions of others. Just go and try some yourself. If you're in the North of England, you're welcome to try mine. I doubt you'll be disappointed by either the tone, ergonomics, playability or finish. Alembics are expensive, though there is the occassional bargain to be found (I think I know of two in the UK now if you're looking for a used short-scale in excellent condition).[/indent]
[/quote]

[mckendrick]

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1333352620' post='1600254']
I think they are overrated.
[/quote]
+1




[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1333352620' post='1600254']
But I can't hear the difference between a Fender Jazz and a Precision.
[/quote]

[juliusmonk]

Sorry for the quote alone, still getting used to how the forum works...

Thanks - a very balanced opinion, much appreciated! Unfortunately I'm nowhere near Northern England, but I'd be very interested to know more about those two short scale basses... :-) Can I have more info?

Re the want/need thing... It's gas, so yes I guess 'want' is more appropriate. Then again, when dies one really *need* another bass? :-)

Still, most higher end basses (with beautiful woods, etc) don't come close to 10-12k. Alembic charges a lot just for the electronics apparently. I need to justify this to myself, and that as you all correctly say is probably impossible without trying out.

But it seems clear that they position their basses as luxury goods and the extremely high price is part of the strategy, as happens so often with higher end Fenders, Gibsons, etc.

But all and any advice highly appreciated!

[deaver]

[quote name='Clarky' timestamp='1333352015' post='1600250']
I wish I still had a Spoiler
[/quote]

I had it after Clarky and I wish I still had it

[molan]

[quote name='juliusmonk' timestamp='1333351375' post='1600244']

Alembic must have the best marketing in the world... Although if you fork out 10k, you better convince yourself that it is the ultimate bass. I can also understand that.

[/quote]

Alembic have a marketing campaign?

I think the only 'marketing' they do is making new basses and letting people play them. Their base price is really high (although all the US dealers discount on the list prices) but the main reason they demand such high prices is simply that people are prepared to pay them.

Once initial depreciation is knocked out you should find that a quality used Alembic will hold value really well. I've owned 3 or 4 and have never lost money on any of them.


[quote name='juliusmonk' timestamp='1333351375' post='1600244']

Cumbersome is exactly the word I'd use to describe the Alembics I tried. I was expecting something that would play itself!

[/quote]

I think 'challenging' might describe how I've found them. The ones I've had have forced me to think differently about how I play - they can be really, really critical of any sort of technique flaws but they can be very rewarding to play once you've mastered them.

Every one I've had has been quite different in sound to the other, despite the fact that all have had relatively similar pre-amps and switching options.

One of them really was absolutely beautiful and a joy to play. However the fact that I had to work so hard to adjust my technique to play it eventually meant that I decided to move it on.

As others have said - definitely something to try before you buy.

The Alembic forum can be a really useful source of information. Once you get the hang of 'talking' to the guys there they can be super-friendly. I met a couple of them (including the chief moderator) on a trip to the States and they could not have been friendlier

[chris_b]

£6K+ for a bass is way beyond my mindset. Last week I passed on the exact Rob Allen bass that I [i]need[/i] because it came in at just over £2000.

Mark has an Alembic in the Bass Direct second hand section, which looks pretty good to me.

[Doddy]

The way that I look at it,is that for the price you are looking at paying you can buy pretty much
anything you want. You've tried a couple of Alembics and weren't blown away...to me that says a
lot.Maybe they just aren't for you.
You'll always get people saying that xxxx is the 'best' or 'sh*t' or whatever,but none of that matters
if you personally like or dislike an instrument.

[Cosmo Valdemar]

[quote name='daz' timestamp='1333335521' post='1600182']
I would[i] never [/i]even contemplate spending that sort of money on [i]any [/i]instrument that I could not try out first. I would advise you to do the same. Unless you are a rich millionaire. [i]You are being seduced by a brand name[/i].

[/quote]

When I hear an Alembic, I'm being seduced by the tone.

[Cosmo Valdemar]

[quote name='deaver' timestamp='1333368951' post='1600598']


I had it after Clarky and I wish I still had it
[/quote]

I remember when you were selling it and I wish I now had it.

[lozbass]

Carlos, I'll send a PM when I'm near a decent connection tomorrow - I know of one very nice short-scale Alembic for sale in the UK and possibly a second (if it's still available).

I didn't see your location initially - it really is a very good idea to try Alembics before making any decision on purchase. They can certainly feel very strange at first - nothing like a Fender-type bass - indeed, a somewhat rigid feel, and many are surprsingly heavy. In my experience, the smaller basses are incredibly easy to play and don't feel as 'odd' - that said, balance on a strap takes a little getting used to. I suspect it's the darling basses that you've been looking at - if so, they're staggeringly lovely and should balance very well.

[daz]

[quote name='Cosmo Valdemar' timestamp='1333371678' post='1600665']
When I hear an Alembic, I'm being seduced by the tone.
[/quote]

Maybe you are, but you have to[i] play it [/i]to hear it.

[juliusmonk]

Yep, Darling bass it is. I also don't have any short scale, and would like to try - although the punch and clarity of the E string worries me.

This is interesting... Rigidity is one thing that puts me off most of the time. For instance, I find Elixir strings to stiff for my taste. I also don't want a bass that I have to "fight" to get things done - much rather have one in which I can do new things. I am also more inclined to lighter touch. Normally, within 5 minutes I decide whether a bass is for me or not - with just the feel. If I spend more time, I normally can get it to sound properly - with notable exceptions, but I'll walk away anyways. I'm not too elitistic. I can enjoy a Washburn T24 and a Jerzy Drozd all the same. Btw I should drop by Jerzy's and see what he's got in stock :-)

Reflecting a bit, I think it was of course this (and not SC, although I love his music, except when he does fast runs on double bass) that made me look into Alembic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93VqyeUz8Z8&feature=youtube_gdata_player

(when was that? 20 years ago?) is this the exclusive Alembic tone? Or is it only with Series I / II? And I know it's the fingers, etc., but one has to refer to something...

I don't gig at present, so just playing for pleasure - and using a 'bedroom' Yamaha THR10 (in Flat, not Bass mode) which works fine for what I want now. So I pretty much rely on the bass preamp and tone, with no outboard eq... Just some compression maybe.

String spacing may also be important - I'd rather have it on the narrow side, but I can live with up to 'standard' 19 mm.