Alembic lovers and haters - please advise

[karlclews]

A little harsh of Pete Academy to say Alembics have 'no warmth whatsoever'. Maybe it's just a different of what constitutes 'warmth', but I'd say my Alembic is the 'warmest' sounding bass I have, and my collection includes a Jazz, a Stingray, a couple of Statuses, a Ken Smith and a Goodfellow.

It's worth noting that quite apart from the filter controls, the trim screws on the filter controls, hidden away in the control cavity, really have a huge effect on the base sound of any given Alembic. When I first got mine (second hand), I found it very harsh and trebly. So I backed off the level on the bridge pickup a little and bumped it up a touch on the neck pickup and it was a completely different bass - hey presto, much 'warmer'. And then of course, adjusting the height of the pickups has a further balancing effect on the base tone of the guitar.

For some reason, on every Alembic I've come across in music stores, they seem to be set up with a rather toppy sound, and a quick peek in the control cavity usually confirms that the bridge filter control trim screw is set at the max - perhaps folks like to showcase that toppy, hi-fi 'zingy-ness', but that's by no means all an Alembic can do, and you really can change the character of the default tone to a huge degree by just experimenting with those trim screws.

That said, Alembics all seem to have a distinctive 'attack' - difficult to explain, but it's like a slight 'crunch' or 'quack' at the beginning of the note, and a very quick response, which you either like or you don't. You can tame it to some extent through filter adjustment and modifying your technique, but it's difficult to remove completely. So make sure you like that aspect of the sound before you commit!

Here's a little vid of my Alembic Stanley Clarke Deluxe, recorded direct into audio interface - no amp, no processing, that's just the sound of the bass you're getting there. I have the treble a little higher than I normally would because I'm playing the melody here as well as the bottom line, but you should get an idea of the character of the bass and perhaps hear what I mean about that distinctive 'attack':

[url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9NNfDbxjP4"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9NNfDbxjP4[/url]

K.

[mikethebassplayer]

[quote name='karlclews' timestamp='1334151481' post='1611647']
A little harsh of Pete Academy to say Alembics have 'no warmth whatsoever'. Maybe it's just a different of what constitutes 'warmth', but I'd say my Alembic is the 'warmest' sounding bass I have, and my collection includes a Jazz, a Stingray, a couple of Statuses, a Ken Smith and a Goodfellow.

It's worth noting that quite apart from the filter controls, the trim screws on the filter controls, hidden away in the control cavity, really have a huge effect on the base sound of any given Alembic. When I first got mine (second hand), I found it very harsh and trebly. So I backed off the level on the bridge pickup a little and bumped it up a touch on the neck pickup and it was a completely different bass - hey presto, much 'warmer'. And then of course, adjusting the height of the pickups has a further balancing effect on the base tone of the guitar.

For some reason, on every Alembic I've come across in music stores, they seem to be set up with a rather toppy sound, and a quick peek in the control cavity usually confirms that the bridge filter control trim screw is set at the max - perhaps folks like to showcase that toppy, hi-fi 'zingy-ness', but that's by no means all an Alembic can do, and you really can change the character of the default tone to a huge degree by just experimenting with those trim screws.

That said, Alembics all seem to have a distinctive 'attack' - difficult to explain, but it's like a slight 'crunch' or 'quack' at the beginning of the note, and a very quick response, which you either like or you don't. You can tame it to some extent through filter adjustment and modifying your technique, but it's difficult to remove completely. So make sure you like that aspect of the sound before you commit!

Here's a little vid of my Alembic Stanley Clarke Deluxe, recorded direct into audio interface - no amp, no processing, that's just the sound of the bass you're getting there. I have the treble a little higher than I normally would because I'm playing the melody here as well as the bottom line, but you should get an idea of the character of the bass and perhaps hear what I mean about that distinctive 'attack':

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9NNfDbxjP4[/media]

K.
[/quote]

Sounds great man!

[juliusmonk]

Once more, thanks all for helping me out - especially Karl for the video! Great playing!

I think I have enough elements to decide now... All in all, and much to my GAS discontent, I will not buy the Darling - unless I can try it or an equivalent (read signature electrs and up, short scale) Alembic.

Unless GAS strikes back, that is... Did I miss one decissive variable...?

Many thanks for your assistance fellow basists!

[BassBod]

And there was a Superfilter going in the For Sales a few days ago.....

[jacko]

Like several others on here I'm a devoted player of Alembics, having bought my first (an epic) new in 1995 for £1200ish. Since then I've added a fretless rogue and a Signature. If I had the money I wouldn't think twice about dropping it on a series 2. One of the things that impresses me most about them is the fact that everything apart from the machine heads is handmade at their workshop. Of my three, the latter two were custom built to my exact requirements. I was able to talk to the craftsmen (and the MD of the company) whenever I wanted to discuss the builds / choose laminates / string spacing etc. Granted they cost a lot more than any other basses I've played but - and this is where the 'haters' get bogged down - I absolutely love playing them - to my hands they are perfect and I can get any tone I need from them. Another important consideration - I'm lucky to have a very understanding other half who has allowed me to splash out once in a while. Others maybe aren't so fortunate. The owner of this bass - http://www.alembic.com/info/fc_romanconq.html paid somewhere in the region of $20,000 in 2004. Sadly for him he didn't tell his wife and once she found out the cost it ended up for sale.
p.s. I'll be visiting the workshop in September - a dream come true.

[Chris2112]

[quote name='karlclews' timestamp='1334151481' post='1611647']
A little harsh of Pete Academy to say Alembics have 'no warmth whatsoever'. Maybe it's just a different of what constitutes 'warmth', but I'd say my Alembic is the 'warmest' sounding bass I have, and my collection includes a Jazz, a Stingray, a couple of Statuses, a Ken Smith and a Goodfellow.

It's worth noting that quite apart from the filter controls, the trim screws on the filter controls, hidden away in the control cavity, really have a huge effect on the base sound of any given Alembic. When I first got mine (second hand), I found it very harsh and trebly. So I backed off the level on the bridge pickup a little and bumped it up a touch on the neck pickup and it was a completely different bass - hey presto, much 'warmer'. And then of course, adjusting the height of the pickups has a further balancing effect on the base tone of the guitar.

For some reason, on every Alembic I've come across in music stores, they seem to be set up with a rather toppy sound, and a quick peek in the control cavity usually confirms that the bridge filter control trim screw is set at the max - perhaps folks like to showcase that toppy, hi-fi 'zingy-ness', but that's by no means all an Alembic can do, and you really can change the character of the default tone to a huge degree by just experimenting with those trim screws.

That said, Alembics all seem to have a distinctive 'attack' - difficult to explain, but it's like a slight 'crunch' or 'quack' at the beginning of the note, and a very quick response, which you either like or you don't. You can tame it to some extent through filter adjustment and modifying your technique, but it's difficult to remove completely. So make sure you like that aspect of the sound before you commit!

Here's a little vid of my Alembic Stanley Clarke Deluxe, recorded direct into audio interface - no amp, no processing, that's just the sound of the bass you're getting there. I have the treble a little higher than I normally would because I'm playing the melody here as well as the bottom line, but you should get an idea of the character of the bass and perhaps hear what I mean about that distinctive 'attack':

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9NNfDbxjP4[/media]

K.
[/quote]

I don't like the song that much, but that sound is fantastic. Pure Stanley sound! Great playing too!

[4000]

[quote name='Doddy' timestamp='1333370406' post='1600637']
You'll always get people saying that xxxx is the 'best' or 'sh*t' or whatever,but none of that matters
if you personally like or dislike an instrument.
[/quote]

+1. FWIW there's no such thing as overrated either, for the same reason. I've had 2 and thought both were amazing, although the ergonomics of the first (an SC Deluxe) didn't suit (very head heavy) and eventually the weight of the other proved to much for my ailing back and shoulder (I have slipped discs). I've played some I haven't liked much (played a '70s sS1 in San Franscisco that was terrible IMO) but I've played others, including my 2nd, that were as good as it gets for me. It's not promising that you haven't liked the ones you've played, but I'd just keep trying them. Also FWIW my 2nd was a custom order so I didn't get to try before buying. However in no way was I disappointed; it was unbelievable, light years better than the Foderas, Ken Smiths etc that I've tried. Of course YMMV.

[4000]

[quote name='karlclews' timestamp='1334151481' post='1611647']
A little harsh of Pete Academy to say Alembics have 'no warmth whatsoever'. Maybe it's just a different of what constitutes 'warmth', but I'd say my Alembic is the 'warmest' sounding bass I have, and my collection includes a Jazz, a Stingray, a couple of Statuses, a Ken Smith and a Goodfellow.

It's worth noting that quite apart from the filter controls, the trim screws on the filter controls, hidden away in the control cavity, really have a huge effect on the base sound of any given Alembic. When I first got mine (second hand), I found it very harsh and trebly. So I backed off the level on the bridge pickup a little and bumped it up a touch on the neck pickup and it was a completely different bass - hey presto, much 'warmer'. And then of course, adjusting the height of the pickups has a further balancing effect on the base tone of the guitar.

For some reason, on every Alembic I've come across in music stores, they seem to be set up with a rather toppy sound, and a quick peek in the control cavity usually confirms that the bridge filter control trim screw is set at the max - perhaps folks like to showcase that toppy, hi-fi 'zingy-ness', but that's by no means all an Alembic can do, and you really can change the character of the default tone to a huge degree by just experimenting with those trim screws.

That said, Alembics all seem to have a distinctive 'attack' - difficult to explain, but it's like a slight 'crunch' or 'quack' at the beginning of the note, and a very quick response, which you either like or you don't. You can tame it to some extent through filter adjustment and modifying your technique, but it's difficult to remove completely. So make sure you like that aspect of the sound before you commit!

Here's a little vid of my Alembic Stanley Clarke Deluxe, recorded direct into audio interface - no amp, no processing, that's just the sound of the bass you're getting there. I have the treble a little higher than I normally would because I'm playing the melody here as well as the bottom line, but you should get an idea of the character of the bass and perhaps hear what I mean about that distinctive 'attack':

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9NNfDbxjP4[/media]

K.
[/quote]

See to me, from the very first note, that is an absolutely gorgeous tone.

[jazzyvee]

[quote name='jacko' timestamp='1334269634' post='1613744']
Like several others on here I'm a devoted player of Alembics, having bought my first (an epic) new in 1995 for £1200ish. Since then I've added a fretless rogue and a Signature. If I had the money I wouldn't think twice about dropping it on a series 2. One of the things that impresses me most about them is the fact that everything apart from the machine heads is handmade at their workshop. Of my three, the latter two were custom built to my exact requirements. I was able to talk to the craftsmen (and the MD of the company) whenever I wanted to discuss the builds / choose laminates / string spacing etc. Granted they cost a lot more than any other basses I've played but - and this is where the 'haters' get bogged down - I absolutely love playing them - to my hands they are perfect and I can get any tone I need from them. Another important consideration - I'm lucky to have a very understanding other half who has allowed me to splash out once in a while. Others maybe aren't so fortunate. The owner of this bass - [url="http://www.alembic.com/info/fc_romanconq.html"]http://www.alembic.c..._romanconq.html[/url] paid somewhere in the region of $20,000 in 2004. Sadly for him he didn't tell his wife and once she found out the cost it ended up for sale.
p.s. I'll be visiting the workshop in September - a dream come true.
[/quote]

Hi there Jacko, as a fellow member of the Alembic web site forum, the cost aspect has raised its head a number of times as you know, especially at the times of price increase. I just think it's something that will always be debated. Like you I just love them and they give me the ability to get the sounds I enjoy and require for the music I play. I've almost dropped the money on a Series custom order a couple of times in the past but couldn't persuade myself to take that final step. So for me there is an upper limit. But as long as there are used bargains to be had, finding a good used series II first may be the first step in overcoming that hurdle... unless of course there is another price increase. . BTW I will be visiting the workshop next week.... :-)

Edited April 13, 2012 by jazzyvee

[4000]

Jacko (hope you're ok BTW, long time no speak!) and Jazzy, I'm extremely jealous of you both visiting the workshop. Hoped to do that a few years back when I was in SF but couldn't organise it in time. If the time ever comes when I can afford it again, I'll be ordering myself another Alembic; just a smaller, lighter one (Balance K?). Have to say if that buckeye EVH in the For Sale section was a pound or two lighter I'd be working out how to get it...

[jazzyvee]

[quote name='4000' timestamp='1334422546' post='1616072']
Have to say if that buckeye EVH in the For Sale section was a pound or two lighter I'd be working out how to get it...
[/quote]

I bet if you changed the sustain block for an aluminium one that would reduce the weight significantly. I recall a conversation on this subject on the Alemic Forum.
On the downside though, there would probably be some a change in the tone and sustain and the balance may change to being neck heavy and could you imagine the cost of Alembic providing you with a replacement block...??!!. I've not made my mind up about buckeye burl. I can see why people love the dramatic patterns in the grain but my brain can't rest when I look at it. For example on first glance this one looks quite evil.

[url="http://www.righteouswoods.net/Graphics/Clients_and_%20works/Alembic_5String_BuckeyeBck.jpg"]http://www.righteous..._BuckeyeBck.jpg[/url]

Stanley was using a series I bass in Buckeye burl on the last REF tour and was enthusiastic about the tone of it so it must have some interesting sonic properties it adds to the mix as well as the visual drama.

Jazzyvee

Edited April 17, 2012 by jazzyvee

[lozbass]

I can see all the usual suspects lining-up here!

On the sustain block issue, I had a SI that sported a flamed Koa block rather than it's original brass unit. The reduction in weight was indeed significant (the original block was supplied with the bass). I didn't compare the two, however, the bass didn't seem to suffer in terms of tone in any way.

I have a SCD with buckeye facings (dark blue/grey rather than cream) and I like the look. However, I can see that some might be disquieted. One of the key benefits is the weight - very light compared to a coco-faced Alembic. Comparing the buckeye to the coco SCD that I used to own, I can say that the buckeye is significantly brighter with a pronounced 'ping' and fast attack. There's also a slightly compressed tone with the buckeye. I can't begin to claim that the tone of the bass is down (either in part or completely) to the facing woods - there are just so many variables with an Alembic. However, I wouldn't be surprised if the buckeye is a contributory factor in the overall sound of the bass.

[2004gdavi]

Hi

Having read the comments here there is obviously much to consider and buying an Alembic is a big step. For my part I've been over 40 years without an Alembic until this year and that's 40 years too long. I now have a SCD, which I was introduced to by Loz (many thanks).

Since I've had it I've gigged with it several times in a variety of different styles of music. For each of these occasions it has performed admirably. It's a delight to play and begs to be played. One day I hope to be good enough to do it the justice it deserves but until then I'll just enjoy the ride.

Sure it was a lot of cash but if there's one thing I've learned is that you only live once and to seize the day. I can't say that an Alembic will be to everyone's taste but for me, in the words of Edith Piaf, 'je ne regrette rien'.

[jazzyvee]

[quote name='2004gdavi' timestamp='1336505354' post='1646651']
Hi

Having read the comments here there is obviously much to consider and buying an Alembic is a big step. For my part I've been over 40 years without an Alembic until this year and that's 40 years too long. I now have a SCD, which I was introduced to by Loz (many thanks).

Since I've had it I've gigged with it several times in a variety of different styles of music. For each of these occasions it has performed admirably. It's a delight to play and begs to be played. One day I hope to be good enough to do it the justice it deserves but until then I'll just enjoy the ride.

Sure it was a lot of cash but if there's one thing I've learned is that you only live once and to seize the day. I can't say that an Alembic will be to everyone's taste but for me, in the words of Edith Piaf, 'je ne regrette rien'.
[/quote]

How are you getting on with your alembic?

[iconic]

Buckeye.....i never thought a slice of wood could look quite so scary!

Got a sort of dried roadkill sheep look about it.....fantastic!

[White Cloud]

I have been lucky enough to own an Alembic. They are very much an acquired taste...basses that you either love or hate to be honest. Personally I found the electrics to be absolutely first rate once mastered and the bass itself to feature breathtaking woodworking. Very heavy though so be aware that this is not the brand for those with dodgy back problems.

The (big) downside is they are massively overpriced when bought new. Surprisingly enough, considering the multi laminations used in construction, there are also a good number of Alembic owners out there who have had neck stability problems (browse the Alembic club and you will find them)...although some of these may be down in some part to the aforementioned more complicated set up requirements. The neck on mine was almost perfectly straight and the action was crazy low so no complaints here.

I think at the end of the day though that the "elephant in the room" regarding Alembic is this; back in the day nobody was doing what Alembic did...but times have changed. There are an absolute myriad of builders making instruments of comparable build/sound quality now - most of them at a price point MUCH lower than Alembic. I could have bought 3 Wal customs for the price of an Alembic Series1 ...and I much preferred my Wal to my Alembic.

The bottom line? If you think anything (including an Alembic) is worth the asking price...then for you it is.

Just my tuppenceworth.

[visog]

Having tried a couple of Alembics before going Goodfellow, I'd agree with the previous poster. Some of them look lovely and have a great tone but they have a very 'individual' feel and control layout which is quirky. Weirdly as well as being heavy, they're surprisingly thin in the flesh which is disconcerting if you're comfortable with a thicker-bodied bass. Check the stand-up position balance too as they're notoriously neck heavy (depending on shape).

Cost aside... I'd play one and decide with your ears and fingers...

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='karlclews' timestamp='1334151481' post='1611647']
That said, Alembics all seem to have a distinctive 'attack' - difficult to explain, but it's like a slight 'crunch' or 'quack' at the beginning of the note, and a very quick response, which you either like or you don't. You can tame it to some extent through filter adjustment and modifying your technique, but it's difficult to remove completely. So make sure you like that aspect of the sound before you commit!
[/quote]

If you look at a chip used in an active filter you'll often see the manufacture give a few sample schematics for different filters - along with graphs and plots showing what it's doing - you can see this slight effect on the attack on these

[jazzyvee]

[quote name='White Cloud' timestamp='1355345292' post='1897296']
I have been lucky enough to own an Alembic. They are very much an acquired taste...basses that you either love or hate to be honest. Personally I found the electrics to be absolutely first rate once mastered and the bass itself to feature breathtaking woodworking. Very heavy though so be aware that this is not the brand for those with dodgy back problems.

The (big) downside is they are massively overpriced when bought new. Surprisingly enough, considering the multi laminations used in construction, there are also a good number of Alembic owners out there who have had neck stability problems (browse the Alembic club and you will find them)...although some of these may be down in some part to the aforementioned more complicated set up requirements. The neck on mine was almost perfectly straight and the action was crazy low so no complaints here.

I think at the end of the day though that the "elephant in the room" regarding Alembic is this; back in the day nobody was doing what Alembic did...but times have changed. There are an absolute myriad of builders making instruments of comparable build/sound quality now - most of them at a price point MUCH lower than Alembic. I could have bought 3 Wal customs for the price of an Alembic Series1 ...and I much preferred my Wal to my Alembic.

The bottom line? If you think anything (including an Alembic) is worth the asking price...then for you it is.

Just my tuppenceworth.
[/quote]

Agreed they are an acquired taste and it is a shame that the price of them new does really cut deep into the pocket. Used instruments can also be quite pricey especially this side of the pond. But if you can get past that hurdle, they are pretty first rate instruments and have an unique sound which for me is one of the main attractions. You do have to invest time with the dual filter basses to be able to get to and from different sounds quickly. If I could "easily| afford a new series bass I would have no hesitation in buying one. But having bills to pay focusses the priorities. :-)

[White Cloud]

Hi Jazzy. Yes indeed they are absolutely first rate instruments despite every other factor discussed here. My pal has a 78 Series 1 and it is "off the scale" tone wise!

My advice would always be to buy second hand.

[Chris2112]

[quote name='White Cloud' timestamp='1355345292' post='1897296']
I think at the end of the day though that the "elephant in the room" regarding Alembic is this; back in the day nobody was doing what Alembic did...but times have changed.
[/quote]

Irrespective of the way the market for handbuilt basses has changed, Alembic's books are still back logged, so despite the fact that better value is available elsewhere, Alembic's business model is still working for them.

[White Cloud]

[quote name='Chris2112' timestamp='1355561706' post='1899869']
Irrespective of the way the market for handbuilt basses has changed, Alembic's books are still back logged, so despite the fact that better value is available elsewhere, Alembic's business model is still working for them.
[/quote]

Yes very true....yet on a different tack very few high profile players use them extensively these days. This may however be due in part to the fact that Alembic generally dont hand out freebies to big names.

More strength to Alembic. There are obviously plenty of players willing to pay the asking prices. For me personally I wouldnt dream of it...I'd rather have a Fodera and a Smith, etc etc for the same cash.

[jazzyvee]

[quote name='White Cloud' timestamp='1355576187' post='1900088']
Yes very true....yet on a different tack very few high profile players use them extensively these days. This may however be due in part to the fact that Alembic generally dont hand out freebies to big names.

More strength to Alembic. There are obviously plenty of players willing to pay the asking prices. For me personally I wouldnt dream of it...I'd rather have a Fodera and a Smith, etc etc for the same cash.
[/quote]

I would not be surprised if more high profile players do use them in the studio and use what they get given or paid to play on the road. But then I'm cynical. :-)

[jazzyvee]

Did you manage to find a short scale bass that suited your needs?

[Telebass]

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1333352620' post='1600254']
I have only ever played one (A Stanley Clarke, IIRC) and was decidedly unimpressed. In fact, I have only ever really heard one player using an Alembic where I thought 'Wow' and that was Jimmy Johnson. Every other Alembic I have ever heard didn't strike me as anything special. I think they are overrated. But I can't hear the difference between a Fender Jazz and a Precision.
[/quote]
Nor can most others in a band situation. Doesn't matter what I play, sounds like me, not the bass...