Bergantino HT322 cab

[dmccombe7]

Just bought an HT322 cab from a gem of a guy Karlfer on BC and what a beast the cab is.
Its heavy but has a lot more depth than the AE112 cabs i have.
Probably down to depth and size of cab. Still has that clear Berg sound although haven't run it high volumes yet. Next rehearsal Sun and will ramp up the GB Stl 600 to see how it compares.
800W 4ohm cab.
Not physically too big at 26"x23"x18" so pretty well manageable and fits in the wife's mini. Has good sturdy wheels too so that helps a fair bit.

Anyone else have / had one of these and how did you find it. ?

Cheers
Dave

[JTUK]

Sounds great... I have to say, I have fixed my 2xAE112;s from being as bass lite as I thought, altho rooms make a difference.
As always, a work in progress. I still have the amp running flat on the dials and no 4 band parametric switched out

I am thinking that there is something in the NEO/Ceramic difference as I am getting to hear a NEO type sound recall with all the
NEO units I have tried.
So far, that is Berg, GK, MarkB, Ampeg, Eminence chassis' to recall just a few..

[dmccombe7]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1333975420' post='1608954']
Sounds great... I have to say, I have fixed my 2xAE112;s from being as bass lite as I thought, altho rooms make a difference.
As always, a work in progress. I still have the amp running flat on the dials and no 4 band parametric switched out

I am thinking that there is something in the NEO/Ceramic difference as I am getting to hear a NEO type sound recall with all the
NEO units I have tried.
So far, that is Berg, GK, MarkB, Ampeg, Eminence chassis' to recall just a few..
[/quote]

Hi JTUK
That's quite a selection of cabs you've gone through. Wouldn't mind your opinion on some of them and why you changed so often.

Cheers
Dave

[JTUK]

Hi Dave

I currently own 2 AE112's so that is a work in progress. I would say that atm, I am pretty happy with what I've got from them so far..
so as I say, a work in progress
I didn't own the GK combo but was supplied it as I was assured it would be quality kit.
It wasn't in my mind but I was stuck with it for a while. It was pretty harsh and sterile sounding and it happened to have a
NEO115. Try as I might, I couldn't get it to work well enough for my tastes and had formed the opinion that is was
a Peavey in different clothing. I guess for the price this is what you end up with. The guy who loaned is a multi-millionaire so why
he ended up with this, I don't know. .oh well. I was glad to give it back and have declined all offers to use it again if we stage share.
The Markbass 102 combo was borrowed when my SWR stack was knocked over and damaged..both amp and cab.
I used this for about 6-8 weeks plus I still use it at rehearsal. I needed to add a cab underneath for live gigs.
For rehearsal it would just about be usable on its own but I felt the amp did not go loud too well.
It hit the volume but did not retain the very good sound it had at low volume..I went off it as the sound at low and hi vol was too big a differenc to my ears..
I describe this as not amping up very well. I also added a SWR 210 with Deltalites as an extention cab... which I never liked over the old PAs chassis. I could not get
replacement PAS speakers and sent them away to be reconed with a cone kit..but they would not give out any specifics on the kit and/or garuantee
specs..so I ended up binning the PAS speakers.and going to Deltalites 2510's. I used this NEO cab with a few rigs before selling it on.
Many people have said they like this conversion -PAS to Deltalites 2510...but not me, I'm afraid

I use the BA600 210 Ampeg at gigs which is supplied by the P.A hire company. We do this for long distance gigs where it makes sense to double up
on the car-share and therefore need to cut down gear travelling.
This amp has the typical Ampeg EQ stage and with NEO boxes is getting close to the GK bundle. None of these rigs get 'warm' and the sound is all
about a hard edge cut..which can be useful but you would need better amps to go with it, IMO.

This is why the TF-550-B might be able to work the AE112's as it is in a different league to most amps, IME, let alone the ones I have listed here.

Anyway..just a little take on some experience with NEO boxes. Defintive..?? NO.. !! but it does make me think these things through abit..and enough
to be very wary of what kit is out there for hire or use..

My number 1 rig is 2xDB210 cabs ...but I am trying to get the AE112's close ..and have to say that I am not that far off...certainly not anywhere near offensive territory,..and it is still early days.
I did however, love my DB210's right from the off.

so..all in all....er..?????

Edited April 13, 2012 by JTUK

[dmccombe7]

Thanks for that JTUK. The AE112's are my first venture into Neo lightweight cabs and jury still out for me too.
I love the clear crisp sound i get but at higher volumes with classic rock band i find they lack a little something. Adding my Warwick amp to another cab with very slight boost appears to give the Berg's that little extra Umph that i feel they need. I think they would be ideal cabs for a more professional style in respect that jazz or studio session bassists would gain more from that Hi-fi type of sound and not require the extra boost.

Used the Warwick into Ampeg 8x10 with very little volume from it and running that in parallel with my GB and Bergs from my Roland MFX it does produce a very filling clear sound.
I'm not convinced as yet that it is the speaker and it may be the GB amp.
Some more investigation required on that front.
I'm hoping the new HT322 will produce the required sound from my GB at Sundays rehearsal.

Its good to get soemone else's views on these lightweight cabs and amps as I'm not entirely sure they provide the sound I'm looking for.

I read up on the TF amps and Warwickhunt told me a lot about them few mths ago when i met him. His was in storage on the day so couldn't get a chance to try it. They are quite rare though but they do appear to have that Mosfet power and depth with a warmer valve type sound.

That might be my next purchase if this GB and Berg thing doesn't work out over next few weeks.

Appreciate you keeping me posted on your findings and i likewise.

Good luck and all best
Dave

Edited April 13, 2012 by dmccombe7

[JTUK]

I love the TF amp with the DB cabs..which John runs as well.

The band really like the punch of the AE cabs and I get a really good sound from them..it is just that I think I get a better sound from the 2x210's. there is more weight and thump there..
If I hadn't already got the DB210 as a benchmark, then the AE would be nearly there.

I do think I can work with the AE's though and need a bit more time.
The sound from the AE is very tight and focused..and I think the sound works better the further away you might be. This is fine for me as I am
used to clean cabs and for this reason can do without grindey sounds inherrent in some amps.

My conclusion is that I have very good sounding 12's and very good sounding 10's which I prefer but the arbiter for which cabs I use is weight and stage footprint..

I do agree there is something about lightweight stuff ...just can't put a finger on it..
I've heard a pumping RH750 and that sounds pretty impressive but I'd want to know what it could do on a big stage with a powerful band sound blasting away...

Edited April 13, 2012 by JTUK

[JTUK]

Will be interesting to see how you get on with the HT332

My feeling is that it may be your go-to cab and the AE112's will come second
in terms of use and preference

Keep me updated, Dave.

[warwickhunt]

Just to add that I was >< this far away from getting that HT322 cab off ebay, however Karlfer snagged it instead and I seriously kicked myself as I imagined that from all of my research while the cab was on ebay, it would have partnered the TF fantastically well. Saying all of that I'm not sure that the tone v weight compromise would be worth it over my Aggie DBs.

[bertbass]

Here's a question I posted on BFM's site.

[i]Does the material used for the magnet on a speaker make a difference to the sound of that speaker.

Without doubt, different speakers sound different. Fane speakers always sounded cleaner to my ears than a Celestion. Celestion greenbacks are now worth silly money and Vox blue magnet speakers are worth their weight in gold.

Different magnet in pickups make a difference to the sound so does the magnet in a speaker also effect the sound or is a magnet just a magnet?[/i]

And here's Bill's reply.

[i]No. Different materials can allow driver designers to achieve different goals, but there is no characteristic sound attributable to a certain material.[/i]

What do you think?

[dmccombe7]

The HT322 cab is definitely far heavier and after today's rehearsal as a trial it may only be used for gigs and the AE's used for rehearsals or smaller gigs or "lighter" style of music mainly due to weight. It's not physically a huge cab and i am able to lift on my own for short distances but getting in and out of car / van requires 2 people. Once on ground it has wheels anyways so not so much a prob.
I definitely fancy a TF amp after reading about them but cost and availability might still be an issue.
What's reliability like for TF amps. ?

With regards magnet not having any significant effect on sound i would have to question that otherwise all speakers would virtually sound same cause there isn't much more to the actual speaker itself as far as i know and it would then be down to the design of the cab.
I don't think that is completely the case but stand to be corrected by people in the know (maybe Alex could comment on that one).
I've always taken the approach that it is a combination of all parts that make a difference to a cabs sound.

Otherwise you could put a cheap speaker in a great cab and it should in theory sound as good as an expensive speaker. ??
Interesting point though.

I'll keep you posted on HT322 later today.

Dave

[JTUK]

Haven't opened my amp up so do not really know what is inside, but I THINK it is based heavily on the concept of SWR SM series amps of old..without the stero facility or the valve pre stage.
TF amps do have a simulation switch which is quite effective for a bit of grind, but I tend not to use it...only on a Muse track or two and you can hear it working through AE112's..

The SWR SM series pre Fender or SWR sell-out was very well specced...with hi quality components and well wired inside and maybe too much money was spent here, but mine never missed a beat in 20 years
until it was knocked over on stage under power. This is why the amp tech I used could tell me how well made it was... as opposed to the usual fare which passes through..no names here..ha ha .. but..??

Anyway, I think Dave Funk uses this design spec and concept in his TF amps so I don't expect any silly problems.
That and the fact that they are very usable sound-wise..more so than the SWR 400, which shares the same 4 band parametric EQ idea , plus 'enhance' and 'timbre' control which are sound EQ mappings as far as I am concerned copied by all and sundry now.. Markbass use theirs as VP filters, IMO.

The SWR400 had VERY powerful tone shaping capabilities ..and the TF is the same, IMV but it is very hard to screw up a sound on the TF.. as opposed to the SWR, at least I have never managed it..IMO, that is..

[chris_b]

A very potted history:

Russ Alee worked for Acoustic designing amongst other things the 360 series. Steve Rabe also worked at Acoustic, some of the time as Jaco's amp tech, no less.

Alee left and formed his own company (AMP) and was joined by Rabe who then went on to form SWR. Rabe took the preamp and modified it for his SM series. Eden made the cabs for SWR and when they wanted to add amps to their line they used a lot of AMP technology for their WT series. By this time AMP had been bought by Gibson, who did nothing with it and sold it to Dave Funk.

So Eden, SWR and Thunderfunk have the same family tree.

[dmccombe7]

I had no idea there was a link between those particular mfrs.
All good quality gear at the end of the day.

Well had my HT322 at rehearsal today and what a difference it made. Amp ran flat all day (6hrs) and there was more than enough depth and punch. It was like having my AE112 cabs with a low end boost without losing that typical Berg crisp clear punch especially when i ramped it up to more than normal playing levels.

Typically i run my GB amp at 12 on Gain, Vol and Master Vol with gain switch IN and with bass at 1 and 600Hz at 2 - 3 with my AE112 cabs.
When run in parallel with my Warwick head into Ampeg 8x10 i drop the GB bass level to 12 and change the 6oo to 250Hz boost at 2 and this gives me a nice full crisp and clear overall sound. The Warwick head would be running at minimum levels just enough to boost lower end frequencies and no more.

With the HT322 cab today everything was flat with Gain, Vol and Master Vol all at 12 but bass, mid and treble all running flat at 12 too therefore in theory reducing the actual amp output however the level sounded the same as usual. I can only put it down to the HT322 cab being louder ???

Also noted that the tone seemed more evenly spread across the frequency range. No boom or drop out frequencies that i sometimes imagine from the AE's but again that could be down to standing directly in front of them when they are so low down.

Was probably the fact it had more depth that made it appear louder. Although the cab is heavy it is very portable once out of the car and on its wheels.

I'm now of the opinion that the Neo cabs just don't suit my style of playing at the moment whereas the HT322 has exactly what I've been looking for.

Not sure whether or not I will sell the AE's because they do have a very nice sound for other styles rather than Rock and are very portable to say the least. Need to give that some thought.
On another positive it has verified how much i love the sound of the GB stl 600 amp head.

A few more outings needed to confirm these findings aren't novelty of new cab syndrom

Cheers
Dave

[chris_b]

The new cab sounds like a great buy. When I bought my AE cabs I tried several combinations and ended up with an AE210 and AE112. I love the sound of the 2 cabs separate and together. I know were told they won't work together but they do!

I'd hang on to the AE cabs for awhile. You might put your back out, like I did with my Mesa cabs!

[dmccombe7]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1334533412' post='1617412']
The new cab sounds like a great buy. When I bought my AE cabs I tried several combinations and ended up with an AE210 and AE112. I love the sound of the 2 cabs separate and together. I know were told they won't work together but they do!

I'd hang on to the AE cabs for awhile. You might put your back out, like I did with my Mesa cabs!
[/quote]

I probably will keep them as they do have their own unique sound.
Apart from that my back is a bit aching this morning humphing the cab in / out of car.
Probably lack of decent exercise on my part though -

I hear about mixed cabs not working quite a lot on BC but IME over many yrs I've always had a combination of mixed cabs and they have always been great. Maybe my ears just aren't as sensitive as others i guess.

Dave

[JTUK]

No problem with mixed cabs...but it would help to stay with the same maker, IMO.

I am going to keep the AE's for a while...as they are a light solution to some places I play.
but I might swap them for a pair of ceramics if the trade crops up...

They don't fit very well in my car boot as it happens as they are just a tad too deep for both.. but then they are compact enough to go on a back seat

Just think aloud atm.. and in no rush at all.

Still prefer the 2xDB210 combination though and that remains my No 1 rig. I just scope out the venue more now as to which one I want to carry.
Top gigs get the top rig tho...

[dmccombe7]

I think keeping my AE's is the better option for same reason as yourself being very light weight and easy to handle and gives you options.
I definately love the sound of them with my jazz on bridge pick up. Very clear punchy sound and great for many intricate finger styles.

Good thing about the Berg's is that no matter what I've put through them they never seem to distort. The sound just seems to get better.

Dave