budget bassist Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 (edited) [quote name='6stringbassist' post='179356' date='Apr 17 2008, 11:08 PM']It's still their item surely, if they decide to sell to it outside of ebay then that's their choice.[/quote] Nope, not allowed, not a lot they can do to stop people if they do decide to do it but they don't condone it none the less. Quote from earlier in the thread: [quote name='Macko1968' post='178105' date='Apr 16 2008, 05:43 PM']Just got an email from eBay re. ending listings early. [i]"As such, it is a violation if a seller indicates: - that they have the right to cancel their listing at any time, for any reason. - that their listed item is also for sale simultaneously off eBay (e.g. local market). - that the item was in stock at the time of listing but that it may be out of stock at the time of purchase. - that the item listed may not necessarily be the one that the winning bidder receives upon auction completion. To see eBay's user agreement as implicated within Inappropriate Seller Terms - "Other Binding Bids" policy, copy this link into a new browser window:"[/i][/quote] Edited April 18, 2008 by budget bassist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 [quote name='budget bassist' post='179446' date='Apr 18 2008, 02:22 AM']Nope, not allowed, not a lot they can do to stop people if they do decide to do it but they don't condone it none the less. Quote from earlier in the thread:[/quote] ...only if the seller *indicates* that the item is available elsewhere (I appreciate this is the case in the aution we're talking about). The irony is, you're free to sell the item elsewhere as long as you don't mention it in the listing...! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 It's far to easy to be pious about people doing stuff like this until you are the person selling an item and you want to get the maximium coverage and offers! FWIW I'd guess it's someone off here grassing that seller up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macko1968 Posted April 18, 2008 Author Share Posted April 18, 2008 [quote name='wateroftyne' post='179460' date='Apr 18 2008, 07:17 AM']...only if the seller *indicates* that the item is available elsewhere (I appreciate this is the case in the aution we're talking about). The irony is, you're free to sell the item elsewhere as long as you don't mention it in the listing...![/quote] Further quote for eBay's email on the subject. [i]Yes it is very much against eBay's Inappropriate Seller Terms - "Other Binding Bids" policy. You're not allowed to list an item for sale outside of eBay environment, once the said item is put up for sale, or offered for sale, on eBay.[/i] Now, how eBay would identify an item is advertised elsewhere is beyond me, but (technically speaking) the rules actually do preclude someone advertising an item elsewhere - regardless of whether it's mentioned in the advert. I'm not sure it's piety we are seeing here more that some sellers seem to want to have their cake & eat it, leaving bidders at a disadvantage. I doubt many bidders make a bid with the caveat that they "have the right" to remove the bid if they find a better deal elsewhere. One question I would ask though, out of genuine interest, if someone has an item for sale elsewhere they presumably have in mind a price they will take for the item - so why not stick a BIN on the auction or start it at the price they want? Problem solved. A couple of years ago I bid on a custom shop Strat, no reserve auction, only bid of £950 . In the last minute (when you could still do it that late) the seller ended the auction & cancelled my bid. The reason given was the item had been broken or lost. 20 minutes later I get an email from him saying "you can have the guitar for £1300". I told him to use it as a suppository. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 [quote name='Macko1968' post='179976' date='Apr 18 2008, 05:18 PM']Further quote for eBay's email on the subject. [i]Yes it is very much against eBay's Inappropriate Seller Terms - "Other Binding Bids" policy. You're not allowed to list an item for sale outside of eBay environment, once the said item is put up for sale, or offered for sale, on eBay.[/i] Now, how eBay would identify an item is advertised elsewhere is beyond me, but (technically speaking) the rules actually do preclude someone advertising an item elsewhere - regardless of whether it's mentioned in the advert. I'm not sure it's piety we are seeing here more that some sellers seem to want to have their cake & eat it, leaving bidders at a disadvantage. I doubt many bidders make a bid with the caveat that they "have the right" to remove the bid if they find a better deal elsewhere. One question I would ask though, out of genuine interest, if someone has an item for sale elsewhere they presumably have in mind a price they will take for the item - so why not stick a BIN on the auction or start it at the price they want? Problem solved. A couple of years ago I bid on a custom shop Strat, no reserve auction, only bid of £950 . In the last minute (when you could still do it that late) the seller ended the auction & cancelled my bid. The reason given was the item had been broken or lost. 20 minutes later I get an email from him saying "you can have the guitar for £1300". I told him to use it as a suppository.[/quote] I take it from your various responses that you aren't a regular seller on eBay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macko1968 Posted April 18, 2008 Author Share Posted April 18, 2008 [quote name='macko1968' post='180008' date='Apr 18 2008, 05:50 PM']I've only bought & sold over 300 basses on there.[/quote] Should give you a clue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 [quote name='Macko1968' post='180015' date='Apr 18 2008, 05:58 PM']Should give you a clue.[/quote] Sorry I didn't realise that you were a dealer... that explains why you were getting your knickers in a twist over that seller! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macko1968 Posted April 18, 2008 Author Share Posted April 18, 2008 I'm not a dealer, just like chopping & changing. I wasn't aware I was getting my knickers in a twist either - it's not like I've been using words like "walk a mile in their shoes" or "pious" or using the emoticon. I simply started this thread to make 2 observations, a seller misrepresenting his item & his rights. Some people claimed I was wrong about the sellers rights, a healthy(ish) debate has ensued & eBay have confirmed my understanding of the rules is correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 [quote name='Macko1968' post='180049' date='Apr 18 2008, 06:59 PM']I'm not a dealer, just like chopping & changing. I wasn't aware I was getting my knickers in a twist either - it's not like I've been using words like "walk a mile in their shoes" or "pious" or using the emoticon. I simply started this thread to make 2 observations, a seller misrepresenting his item & his rights. Some people claimed I was wrong about the sellers rights, a healthy(ish) debate has ensued & eBay have confirmed my understanding of the rules is correct.[/quote] 300 basses bought and sold on eBay and you aren't a dealer! Even if you like 'chopping and changing' by my reckoning that has to be... a bass a fortnight. That's some going. You most certainly have proved your point about sellers rights and you have also confirmed that you understand the rules, without a shadow of a doubt you've done that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macko1968 Posted April 18, 2008 Author Share Posted April 18, 2008 [quote name='warwickhunt' post='180058' date='Apr 18 2008, 07:14 PM']300 basses bought and sold on eBay and you aren't a dealer! Even if you like 'chopping and changing' by my reckoning that has to be... a bass a fortnight. That's some going. You most certainly have proved your point about sellers rights and you have also confirmed that you understand the rules, without a shadow of a doubt you've done that.[/quote] That wouldn't surprise me to be honest. I know at one stage I had UPS either deliver or collect every day for 9 days & I once bought a Trace T-Bass & sold it without ever unpacking it. I still think Eubassix can beat me though, he must have brought the neck end of £80,000 worth of gear round to our house over the last few years, the wife used to have migraines at the mere mention of his name. I just can't help myself, often I buy stuff just to try it, if I like I keep & if I don't it's straight back out the door. To be honest, I don't want to get in to a scrap over the morals of eBay trading because everyone has an opinion on it & people will never agree. I figure I'd be better spending my time trying to track down a US Bob Glaub & thinking up an excuse for the wife - I guess I could just blame Eubassix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machines Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 This listing (330228043923) has been removed or is no longer available. Please make sure you entered the right item number. If the listing was removed by eBay, consider it cancelled. How strange :ph34r:. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 I buy and sell on eBay, and it doesn't bother me if I bid on something and then it's pulled because it's been sold locally. It's happened to me a few times - c'est la vie. eBay can legislate against it all they like, but they'll never stop it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budget bassist Posted April 18, 2008 Share Posted April 18, 2008 (edited) I don't think it's fair that sellers do that sometimes. The buyer has put down a binding bid, they did nothing wrong, only for them to be refused. That's pretty gutting sometimes, especially if it's something you've been looking for, for a long time. I wouldn't want it done to me. I've sold some things on there before for less than satisfactory prices but i went along with it because it was the right thing to do and i like to think not everyone on there are there to con people out of money. Edited April 18, 2008 by budget bassist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 [quote name='Macko1968' post='180085' date='Apr 18 2008, 07:41 PM']That wouldn't surprise me to be honest. I know at one stage I had UPS either deliver or collect every day for 9 days & I once bought a Trace T-Bass & sold it without ever unpacking it. I still think Eubassix can beat me though, he must have brought the neck end of £80,000 worth of gear round to our house over the last few years, the wife used to have migraines at the mere mention of his name. I just can't help myself, often I buy stuff just to try it, if I like I keep & if I don't it's straight back out the door. To be honest, I don't want to get in to a scrap over the morals of eBay trading because everyone has an opinion on it & people will never agree. I figure I'd be better spending my time trying to track down a US Bob Glaub & thinking up an excuse for the wife - I guess I could just blame Eubassix.[/quote] Ah... that explains a lot of things! [quote name='Machines' post='180106' date='Apr 18 2008, 08:12 PM']This listing (330228043923) has been removed or is no longer available. Please make sure you entered the right item number. If the listing was removed by eBay, consider it cancelled. How strange :ph34r:.[/quote] I can assure you the listing being removed was not 'strange' by any stretch of the imagination... it was as a result of someone being over-zealous in their pursuit of righteousness! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eubassix Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 Mick (macko68), Not sure why you felt the need to include that outrageous comment. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I've visited your place (about 8 miles from me) 3 times since 2003: each time at your request as you were thinking of buying a new bass and were interested to know what I might have, either to buy or to see. On each occasion I would have been able to bring about 4 basses as I wouldn't have got any more into the car. So that means each was worth about £6500. ... I recall you buying a Marleaux Straight 4 and later a Lakland 4 (each at around the £700 mark) - and me getting a Tokai Jazz bass from you. I did add a relevant (hopefully) comment to this discussion earlier as I have had experience of ebay removing an auction for stating that an item was advertised elsewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macko1968 Posted April 19, 2008 Author Share Posted April 19, 2008 [quote name='eubassix' post='180381' date='Apr 19 2008, 11:17 AM']Mick (macko68), Not sure why you felt the need to include that outrageous comment. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I've visited your place (about 8 miles from me) 3 times since 2003: each time at your request as you were thinking of buying a new bass and were interested to know what I might have, either to buy or to see. On each occasion I would have been able to bring about 4 basses as I wouldn't have got any more into the car. So that means each was worth about £6500. ... I recall you buying a Marleaux Straight 4 and later a Lakland 4 (each at around the £700 mark) - and me getting a Tokai Jazz bass from you. I did add a relevant (hopefully) comment to this discussion earlier as I have had experience of ebay removing an auction for stating that an item was advertised elsewhere.[/quote] I am eternally grateful to you Dave for making the wife appreciate that there other blokes out there that love basses more than me. We both know that I've never willingly bought a bass from you, every time it's been with my arm twisted behind my back....... . BTW, a current stock list via Pm would be nice, I have money burning a hole at the moment. See?....you're doing it again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 (edited) Here's one for you to think about, Macko. Someone on Basschat posts that they are selling a bass you REALLY want on eBay. They have it listed with a BIN of, say... £800. However, they say that a Basschatter can have it for £750, and they'll end the auction early. What do you do? Contact the seller via Basschat or, out of prinicple, hit the BIN? Also - is the seller trying to rip people off on eBay? Or are they just showing some sort of comradeship to Basschat members? Edited April 19, 2008 by wateroftyne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macko1968 Posted April 19, 2008 Author Share Posted April 19, 2008 [quote name='wateroftyne' post='180402' date='Apr 19 2008, 12:00 PM']Here's one for you to think about, Macko. Someone on Basschat posts that they are selling a bass you REALLY want on eBay. They have it listed with a BIN of, say... £800. However, they say that a Basschatter can have it for £750, and they'll end the auction early. What do you do? Contact the seller via Basschat or, out of prinicple, hit the BIN? Also - is the seller trying to rip people off on eBay? Or are they just showing some sort of comradeship to Basschat members?[/quote] Well our seller could offer it to BC'ers first. Or choose to reduce the BIN to £750 & allow the fellow BC'er to hit the button, obviously eBay will screw the seller for fees though. There is also the argument that, because the BIN is still available, then the reserve has not been met & technically the bass has not been sold. That is, of course, a very different scenario to this 'ray which was a no reserve auction. In the case of the 'ray, had the auction been pulled after a bid was placed, the seller had already entered in to legal contract of sale. I know eBay's rules preclude either activity but I find the second scenario more objectionable (morally) than the first. I wouldn't say there was any effort to rip anyone off on the price, the market will decide the value of an item - unless the item has been knowingly misrepresented. Indeed I would argue that people will ask more for an item on eBay as it carries additional fees for the seller which BC does not. I'll reiterate that I was not looking for an argument about the rights & wrongs of pulling auctions. The sellers attitude that "I wish to have the benefits of eBay but I have the right to use my own rules" is the issue for me, no-one forced him to use eBay - if he didn't like eBay's rules he can go elsewhere. Again, I did not report him but I have no problem with whoever did - one of those people broke the rules, one didn't. I find it odd that that anyone can defend the miscreant whilst denouncing the complainant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 [quote name='Macko1968' post='180423' date='Apr 19 2008, 12:40 PM']I find it odd that that anyone can defend the miscreant whilst denouncing the complainant.[/quote] Because it's not the law of the land - it's merely ebay's rules. I agree that eBay has to cover it's back, but human nature dictates that 'advertised elsewhere' goes on all the time. It's impossible to ignore, so we just have to live with it. Getting upset about it is a little pointless, really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macko1968 Posted April 19, 2008 Author Share Posted April 19, 2008 [quote name='wateroftyne' post='180434' date='Apr 19 2008, 12:51 PM']Because it's not the law of the land - it's merely ebay's rules. I agree that eBay has to cover it's back, but human nature dictates that 'advertised elsewhere' goes on all the time. It's impossible to ignore, so we just have to live with it. Getting upset about it is a little pointless, really.[/quote] Which he agreed to abide by when he joined & which other members have a right to expect him to do. I entirely accept that outside advertising goes on & have said in previous posts that eBay cannot police it so I can't see why you wish to prolong an argument that doesn't exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 (edited) [quote name='Macko1968' post='180448' date='Apr 19 2008, 01:12 PM']Which he agreed to abide by when he joined & which other members have a right to expect him to do. I entirely accept that outside advertising goes on & have said in previous posts that eBay cannot police it so I can't see why you wish to prolong an argument that doesn't exist.[/quote] Right.. now I'm confused. You expect him to abide by the rules, yet at the same time you accept that it goes on and agree that ebay can't police it? I'm not prolonging any argument - I'm just trying to work out what your point is (that's not meant to sound sarcastic, by the way). Edited April 19, 2008 by wateroftyne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macko1968 Posted April 19, 2008 Author Share Posted April 19, 2008 [quote name='wateroftyne' post='180449' date='Apr 19 2008, 01:15 PM']Right.. now I'm confused. You expect him to abide by the rules, yet at the same time you accept that it goes on and agree that ebay can't police it? I'm not prolonging any argument - I'm just trying to work out what your point is (that's not meant to sound sarcastic, by the way).[/quote] My problem is the assertion he makes that he has the right to do something that he doesn't. Well actually, my main concern was that he was misrepresenting the bass but everyone seemed to agree on that score. I know people end & sell off eBay & I have done it myself in the past but I wouldn't be so brazen as to announce to my prospective customers that I am quite prepared to break the rules & that I have the right to do it. If you want to pull a flanker, just do it & don't make a song & dance about it. Now, my real bug-bear on eBay is the fudgers who charge 4% for Paypal when that is the only payment option they offer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted April 19, 2008 Share Posted April 19, 2008 (edited) OK - now I understand. And you're right about the PayPal thing - that is something that boils my p*ss wether it's the only payment method or not. Edited April 19, 2008 by wateroftyne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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