Bonham

[dc2009]

[quote name='Doctor J' timestamp='1334350528' post='1615161']
Poor oul Neil is getting a rough ride, I actually like his playing a lot, he's nowhere near as busy as a lot of those he influenced. The guy's got good musical sense and knows when to take it easy. My point was more that a lot of drummers who worship him tend to overlook his overall musicality and focus on doing huge rolls and trying to be more clever than they actually are. Neil's ok though.

As for Yngwie, I can't listen to his albums but I went to see him play and was thoroughly entertained for 90 minutes. The guy knows how to put on a show, that much is for sure
[/quote]

I love the switching of the Fender for a cheap strat just before he bashes the thing up!

[dc2009]

[quote name='Davo-London' timestamp='1334415519' post='1615949']
Bonham has an incredible following amongst pro drummers. Peart doesn't.

Davo
[/quote]

Depends which drummers you mean. Peart has influenced many drummers of today, it just depends who you mean and what you listen to.

[peteb]

[quote name='Davo-London' timestamp='1334415519' post='1615949']
Bonham has an incredible following amongst pro drummers. Peart doesn't.

Davo
[/quote]
To be fair, Peart has influenced plenty of drummers - just not as many as Bonham...!

[SteveK]

[quote name='Davo-London' timestamp='1334415519' post='1615949']
Bonham has an incredible following amongst pro drummers. Peart doesn't.

Davo
[/quote]

May be of interest - From Wiki:
[i]"Early in his career, Peart's performance style was deeply rooted in [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_rock"]hard rock[/url]. He drew most of his inspiration from drummers such as [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Moon"]Keith Moon[/url] and [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bonham"]John Bonham[/url],"[/i]

Not trying to make any point here...this is just an observation:
Over the years, I've played with more drummers than I care to remember , and I don't recall a single one of them mentioning Neil Peart. Whereas Bonham's name has cropped up on quite a few occasions. As I say, just an observation.
S'funny, I know very little about Rush, which is kinda strange as they are from my era, and from what I hear, they would have ticked some of my boxes. Maybe now's the time to check them out

[JTUK]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1334312572' post='1614206']
OK I'll stand on this side of the room, alone!! I would hate to play with a John Bonham type drummer. He does nothing for me.
[/quote]

er..will have to join you, Chris. I can get along with some of his stuff but I wouldn't put him right UP there.
Not a fan of super loose sounding unless it is someone like Chambers who is a Monster.

If drummers go along with the Bonham thing too literally then it is not a good thing from my point of view.
I think he was ahead of the game in a lot of respects and all due credit but give me Ian Piace anyday..

[Dad3353]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1334418513' post='1616001']... Ian [s]Piace[/s]...Paice...[/quote]
Fixed...

[EdwardHimself]

Cool stuff man. Yeah, the guy had a great groove, and feel. Also love the sound of his cymbals (But then I do have a 2002 so I am a bit biased lol)

[SteveK]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1334418513' post='1616001']
I think he was ahead of the game in a lot of respects and all due credit
[/quote]I think he probably was, and for that fact alone, IMO, is worthy of our respect.


[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1334418513' post='1616001']
but give me Ian Piace anyday..
[/quote]For sure, another great rock drummer. Both have/had totally different things going for them.

[Austin7]

I was once in a studio in which the engineer made a joke that he had never heard of John Bonham. The drummer didn't quite catch everything that was said and believed that the engineer really hadn't heard of Bonham. He was so offended that he said he would refuse to ever be around that engineer again. I had known the drummer for years and doubt that I've ever seen him so serious. Fortunately, I was able to explain to him that it had only been an innocent joke on the engineer's part and, like the rest of the world, he did know of John Bonham.

[thumbo]

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1334416489' post='1615974']
To be fair, Peart has influenced plenty of drummers - just not as many as Bonham...!
[/quote]

Bonham had a head start too!

[paul_5]

I've just spent 2 hours or so listening to Zep albums (mainly "BBC sessions") off the back of this thread and yes, Bonzo was a monster!
I'm a huge Rush fan too, so in Neil's defence what he does with Rush is perfect for them, but probably out of place in Zep. Similarly Bonham wouldn't be as effective a drummer in a band like 'Rush'. Horses for courses really.

[RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE]

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1334312068' post='1614189']

As much as I can appreciate his guitar playing, I don't think that his albums are any good and I certainly wouldn't want to go out for a beer with him.....
[/quote]

Malmsteen is arrogant .tick. King of arpeggios.tick. Albums poor.tick. However, have seen him at music fair at wembley
a few years back.Arrogant etc.very comical without meaning to be.
Saw him headline Hammy Apollo a few years ago, when schenker lost the plot and cancelled, leaving malmsteen to headline.
Malmsteen rocked,) absolute ly brilliant. Saw himat Astoria 2(the small one) shortly after not long before it got demolished.

What some people don't realise, malmsteen has as many imitators as Eddie van halen.

By the way m Bonham is the nuts.)

[chrismuzz]

Bonham gets accused of being overrated in heavy metal circles. i've always loved his groove and a lot of the time he's more interesting than the guys who pull the flashy stuff, which i do love by the way! Hyper speed blasting gets stale though.

Malmsteen, I just love the guy. His early stuff was amazing, and whereas the actual songwriting/lyrics were epicly bad, you can't help but want to rock out to them. Plus he's one hell of an entertainer, EVERYONE has to see him live at least once! A funny guy too, whether it's intentional or not It doesn't bother me that mucht hat his playing is so sloppy these days, he's still Yngwie!

Edited April 15, 2012 by chrismuzz

[JTUK]

[quote name='RAY AGAINST THE MACHINE' timestamp='1334452921' post='1616457']
Malmsteen is arrogant .tick. King of arpeggios.tick. Albums poor.tick. However, have seen him at music fair at wembley
a few years back.Arrogant etc.very comical without meaning to be.
Saw him headline Hammy Apollo a few years ago, when schenker lost the plot and cancelled, leaving malmsteen to headline.
Malmsteen rocked,) absolute ly brilliant. Saw himat Astoria 2(the small one) shortly after not long before it got demolished.

What some people don't realise, malmsteen has as many imitators as Eddie van halen.

By the way m Bonham is the nuts.)
[/quote]

Freind of mine played drums for him early 90's and considering the dates they were doing was on really sh*te* money.
We earnt more per week around that time.

[Davo-London]

This Letterman showcase for drummers had a series of drummers playing solos.

Here is Peart:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWyABiUpihs

He only really gets to groove at 4:05 and ironically to big band jazz. I watched this over and over and he's just not doing anything for me. Oh well I don't mean to bash the guy.

I learnt the OP's groove last night. Took me a while and then it never quite sounded right. With drumming it real does take a long time to get the sound right. I similarly have learn't Steve Gadd's [i]50 ways to leave your lover[/i] groove. Even though every hit is correct and in time. It still doesn't groove anything like Gadd!

Trust me, quality drumming takes a L O N G time to master.

Davo

[Marvin]

Listened to the outtake in the OP, such a shame that a good drum groove was wasted on such a dog awful song.

Probably the reason I've never taken much notice of Bonham is I don't get the adulation of Zepplin, but then I'm not much interested in the adulation of individual players.

[JTUK]

[quote name='Davo-London' timestamp='1334473955' post='1616507']
This Letterman showcase for drummers had a series of drummers playing solos.

Here is Peart:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWyABiUpihs[/media]

He only really gets to groove at 4:05 and ironically to big band jazz. I watched this over and over and he's just not doing anything for me. Oh well I don't mean to bash the guy.

I learnt the OP's groove last night. Took me a while and then it never quite sounded right. With drumming it real does take a long time to get the sound right. I similarly have learn't Steve Gadd's [i]50 ways to leave your lover[/i] groove. Even though every hit is correct and in time. It still doesn't groove anything like Gadd!

Trust me, quality drumming takes a L O N G time to master.

Davo
[/quote]

I'm sorry, but that link does nothing for me....

Reminds me of a local situation where a very big ex-name does a few gigs and I suggested to our drummer that it lacks an awful LOT..and he said..and he may have a point.. that these solos are designed for
stadiums where flash and panache would be lost, but I still expect some basic feel to come out...and it isn't just about laying it down...

For example, I am great believer in a drummer hitting correctly... because if you don't you'll never a get much of a sound and you wont get a quick sound-check as there is just too much EQ compensation to go through.
That is before you even get onto the feel of the guy...

Some guys just have IT and others have to work at it.
Not sure what that link does, ...and I don't find it watchable, tbh.

Edited April 15, 2012 by JTUK

[wateroftyne]

OT, but.. I know Mr. Peart idolised Freddie Grueber, but whatever he learned after getting lessons from him, it wasn't good IMO.

I actually think he swings less these days.,,

[scalpy]

Nobody on here has mentioned Bonham's sound if I recall. It's awesome, and done with four mics. I've heard that 38 were required on Peart's kit when recorded at AIR Monserrat. Less is more correct again.

[Doctor J]

Required? Only one mic is required, the rest are dependant on what kind of drum sound you're going for. I don't think the techniques of his producerer can be used as a stick to beat the guy with I'm sure Bonham, had he lived, would have known the joys of midi and huge thunderclap gated reverb snares in the 80's like everyone else.

[steve-bbb]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1334487351' post='1616697']
I'm sorry, but that link does nothing for me....

Reminds of of a local situation where a very big ex-name does a few gigs and I suggested to our drummer that it lacks an awful LOT..and he said..and he may have a point.. that these solos are designed for
stadiums where flash and panache would be lost, but you still expect some basic feel to come out...and it isn't just about laying it down...

For example, I am great believer in a drummer hitting correctly... because if you don't you'll never a get much of a sound and you such wont get a quick sound-check as there is just too much EQ compensation to go through.
That is before you even get onto the feel of the guy...

Some guys just have IT and others have to work at it.
Not sure what that link does, ...and I don't find it watchable, tbh.
[/quote]

from a non-drummer ....i do like NP's playing on the early rush material but that is the most rigid 'unrelaxed' piece of playing ?? i know non-professional drummers who would be embarrassed with that

[Dad3353]

[quote name='scalpy' timestamp='1334492774' post='1616774']...Bonham's sound if I recall. It's awesome, and done with four mics...[/quote]
Without wishing to blatently contradict, I would suggest that his 'sound' came, first and formost, from his drums, mic or no mic. Double 24" bass drums, low tuned, asymetrically, with no 'ports', so fully 'boomy', low-tuned toms with no (or very, very little...) muffling, the best, and definitive, snare ever, tuned for 'thwack', Paiste 2002 cymbals (15" Sound-Edge hi-hats..! Now there's 'wash' for you..!)... You don't need mic's at all to get that to sound. Whether picked up by one single 'overhead', or fully close-mic'ed, the sound is/was always there. That's part of the problem, in fact; one cannot obtain the same 'finesse' from such a kit as Steve Gadd, or Bill Bruford (at around the same period...) got from theirs. Very powerful; exhilerating to thump around on, but unable (and not required...) to express a wide panoply of expression. The mic'ing can't help (or hinder...) much from then on, imho...

Edited April 15, 2012 by Dad3353

[SteveK]

[quote name='SteveK' timestamp='1334418270' post='1615998']
[b]Maybe now's the time to check them out[/b]
[/quote]


[quote name='Davo-London' timestamp='1334473955' post='1616507']
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWyABiUpihs[/media]
[/quote]


Or, maybe not!

With the Peart clip, I feel I'm watching someone playing at the very edge of his ability (perhaps he was just rusty), and struggling for ideas.

[JTUK]

[quote name='SteveK' timestamp='1334498747' post='1616839']
.... I feel I'm watching someone playing at the very edge of his ability (perhaps he was just rusty), and struggling for ideas.
[/quote]

My sentiments exactly..or being polite about the local situation.I referred to, he is retired or out of practice...
but at a recent multi-band gig he wasn't even the best drummer on show..which was really daming considering none of the guys are regarded as
anythng special.

Edited April 15, 2012 by JTUK

[skankdelvar]

Competence, feel and technique aside, I think I'd rather be in a band with Mr Peart than the frankly unhinged Mr Bonham. Bit too high-maintenance for me.