stefBclef Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Hello everybody This is my first post on any forum website...ever! So far I have just been a reader...until now. I'm sure some of you, like me, in your younger days thought it would be a great idea to install a sub and amp in your car boot. Of course...we love bass so why not take it everywhere? Also, i'm sure there are some of you, like me, who now have their big 10 inch Audiobahn subs and Alpine Amps sitting around somewhere in the house doing absolutely nowt. I don't even own a car anymore... So...I would like to know if it is possible to convert these two bits into a bass guitar rig. So far, from looking into it I have found that powering the amp is a bit of a problem, but I bet there is a way around that. Also im sure there are many other tricky parts but I am not afraid of a bit of soldering / attempting some DIY electrics. If I end up breaking the amp and sub I can always make a bass themed coffee table or something. Which is pretty much what it is now anyway. I have: - A 10 inch sub: [size=4][color=#000000][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Audiobahn AWC10T, 400 watts RMS at 4 ohms (housed in a solid sealed enclosure)[/font][/color][/size] - A 350Watt car amp: Alpine MRP-M350 - A tool kit and the will to use it! Well I hope this hasn't been covered before, I couldn't find it. If it has please link me there or if anyone has any advice on this it would be much appreciated. Many thanks, and if pictures of the setup would be useful let me know and I will get some. Stef Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tm486 Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 (edited) Hi, As far as I'm aware, it's possible, but the outcome would not be great. I think most subwoofers are designed to deal with frequencies up to about 120-140Hz really, so when crossed over at this frequency and put with other full range speakers, it sounds great, but if it's trying to reproduce the frequencies above this cut off it will not sounds too great. As a reference, I think most bass amplifiers produce frequencies up to around 2.5kHz and those with horns even higher. The specs for the driver you listed say that its frequency response is 25Hz-800Hz but i believe this may be limited by the box it is in. However, i'm no expert and someone with more knowledge could well prove me wrong, this is just an assumption based on the specs i can find. You could probably use the amplifier to drive a conventional bass cab, but that might be more hassle than it's worth. If you do use the amplifier, i would be interested to see how you power it. Cheers Tom Edited April 12, 2012 by tm486 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xgsjx Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 You could maybe make it into a small dub rig? Try a cable with a mono 1/4 jack on one end (plugged into your bass) & a single RCA on the other (to plug the bass into the amp where you would normally take an RCA from the head) & see how you get on. You might need a pre amp of some sort if your bass is passive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 [quote name='tm486' timestamp='1334268910' post='1613731'] If you do use the amplifier, i would be interested to see how you power it. [/quote] [url="http://www.maplin.co.uk/12v-5a-car-socket-power-supply-42702"]http://www.maplin.co.uk/12v-5a-car-socket-power-supply-42702[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiOgon Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) [quote name='icastle' timestamp='1334301933' post='1613940'] [url="http://www.maplin.co.uk/12v-5a-car-socket-power-supply-42702"]http://www.maplin.co...er-supply-42702[/url] [/quote] That'll never power it, taken from a review:- [color=#0000ff]"[/color] [left]Let me start by saying that the Alpine MRP M350 is a good amplifier. However, the reported power rating of 700 watts is misleading. While it was possible to generate the 700 watts they claimed, this was at a distortion level in excess of 45%. Also, the power was achieved by drawing nearly 60 amps of current and which was only possible after replacing the included fuses with fuses rated at 50% more current capacity. Basically, this is a nice marketing number is an unrealistic and a unusable specification."[/left] [color=#000000]I don't think you'll get a useful sound from a bass guitar with that setup but worth a try I suppose, can you rig up a car battery for testing?[/color] In fact the more of the review I read the more bullshit is evident & yes as said above you'll need a pre-amp before the power amp. [url="http://www.audiogearreviews.com/reviews/amplifiers/review-alpine_mrp-350.asp"]http://www.audiogearreviews.com/reviews/amplifiers/review-alpine_mrp-350.asp[/url] Edited April 13, 2012 by KiOgon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monckyman Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 You could power it from a few different devices, battery chargers, the Maplins converter (quietly!) or a modified PC power supply(google it) but the main problem is as posted above, no frequencies above whatever the sub stops at, I`d say app120Hz or lower. So you either need another cab or a love of Jah Wobble. It also won`t be very loud when taken out of a small car space and left quivering in the great expanse of your bedroom. However, I say give it a go! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete.young Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 I'd say take it to Crack Converters and see if you can trade it for a practice amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stefBclef Posted April 13, 2012 Author Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) Thanks for the responses guys. Well I do have a (massive) love for 'Jah Wobble' so maybe i'll take that as a sign to go for it. However, my Jah Wobble is of the reggae kind not dub, and high end is still used plenty in reggae. So what you're saying is I should go into the garage and dig out my old door speakers and hook them up to it too?! I better work on my enclosure building skills... But yes, that is a very good point about the freq range which realistically puts this project down near the bottom of my "musical tinkerings to do list". When I get round to it I will try[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1334278786' post='1613858'] You could maybe make it into a small dub rig? Try a cable with a mono 1/4 jack on one end (plugged into your bass) & a single RCA on the other (to plug the bass into the amp where you would normally take an RCA from the head) & see how you get on. You might need a pre amp of some sort if your bass is passive. [/quote] Xgsjx - My bass is active - this may be a silly question but is there any way that tinkering of this kind could damage the bass at all? I wouldn't want to use my bass as a coffee table. I think I will do as you say and try for a small dub rig. But then the powering issue is the main issue once again. Yes, the thing from Maplin would be too weak, what about a Xbox power supply or something similar? [url="http://www.focalprice.com/GXB96B/Xbox_360_Slim_AC_Adapter_Transformer_EU_Plug_Black.html?Currency=GBP"]http://www.focalpric...ml?Currency=GBP[/url] [quote name='pete.young' timestamp='1334305473' post='1614000'] I'd say take it to Crack Converters and see if you can trade it for a practice amp. [/quote] Yes that's not a bad option, athough they'd probably only give me one lousy rock and then id have to trade in my bass the following week to get more - slippery slope. Edited April 13, 2012 by stefBclef Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Put a bass through it and see the thing fly out of the window .. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stefBclef Posted April 13, 2012 Author Share Posted April 13, 2012 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1334314445' post='1614266'] Put a bass through it and see the thing fly out of the window .. [/quote] I would of course open the window first to minimise damage. Just got off the phone to cash converters - at that price I think I could make a coffe table out of it and sell it for a higher price... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shizznit Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Surely you will also need a preamp of some sort to EQ the rig? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoonBassAlpha Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 [quote name='shizznit' timestamp='1334317127' post='1614353'] Surely you will also need a preamp of some sort to EQ the rig? [/quote] What's to EQ if it only goes up to 150Hz? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Yes, you can use car audio gear to make a bass rig, [i]so long as you're playing inside a car[/i]. Otherwise, forget about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stefBclef Posted April 13, 2012 Author Share Posted April 13, 2012 [quote name='shizznit' timestamp='1334317127' post='1614353'] Surely you will also need a preamp of some sort to EQ the rig? [/quote] The amp has 3 dials; Gain, Bass EQ and LP Filter: [url="http://www.ecoustics.com/electronics/forum/car-audio/187484.jpg"]http://www.ecoustics...udio/187484.jpg[/url] That should be enough for what is probably going to be a not so good sound anyway. Re powering the thing, can anyone tell me if a power supply with the following specs would do the trick: [list] [*]AC adapter for Xbox 360 Slim. [*]Material: ABS. [*]Input: AC 100-240V 2A 47-63Hz. [*]Output: DC 135W 12V-10.83A 5Vsb-1A. [/list] To power an amp with the following specs: [left][size=3][color=#000000][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][b]Operating Voltage:[/b] 14.4V DC (11V to 16V) Rated Power @ 14.4 200 Watts into 4 Ohms, 350 Watts into 2 Ohms & 700 Watts max power[/font][/color][/size][/left] [left][size=3][color=#000000][font=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][b]Measured Power @ 14.4 Volts 1% THD: [/b] 255.5 Watts into 4 Ohms, 396.7 Watts into 2 Ohms (Max power rating not achievable with acceptable distortion) [b]Current Draw @ Max Power: [/b] 21.3 amps @ 4 ohms, 36.8 @ 2 ohms [b]Efficiency @ Max Power:[/b] 83% @ 4 ohms, 75% @ 2 ohms [b]Efficiency at 1/3 rated power:[/b] 83% @ 4 ohms, 75% @ 2 ohms[/font][/color][/size][/left] [quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1334319063' post='1614396'] Yes, you can use car audio gear to make a bass rig, [i]so long as you're playing inside a car[/i]. Otherwise, forget about it. [/quote] Is this because of the way the cabinet would have been designed or to do with the actual driver itself? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) [quote name='stefBclef' timestamp='1334320161' post='1614432'] Is this because of the way the cabinet would have been designed or to do with the actual driver itself? [/quote] The driver is massively low sensitivity and relies on the car acting as a controlled listening environment. All funny shape an covered in padding inside sounds like one of those special rooms the use for sound, also its very small. Once you are outside, you don't have those advantages, and other gear is more relevant. Edited April 13, 2012 by Mr. Foxen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stefBclef Posted April 13, 2012 Author Share Posted April 13, 2012 [quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1334321353' post='1614472'] The driver is massively low sensitivity and relies on the car acting as a controlled listening environment. All funny shape an covered in padding inside sounds like one of those special rooms the use for sound, also its very small. Once you are outside, you don't have those advantages, and other gear is more relevant. [/quote] Ok so unless I find myself with a room in my house that is small and carpet covered, I shouldn't bother. And if that was the case, it would probably mean that I have a studio, which would mean I would probably have better gear by then. So what to do with it? Cash converters will give me a tenner for both and I doubt ebay will do much better, and I don't want to part with something that I know can produce a lot of bass! Hmmm, maybe I should find a small room to carpet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 [quote name='stefBclef' timestamp='1334323118' post='1614524'] Ok so unless I find myself with a room in my house that is small and carpet covered, I shouldn't bother. And if that was the case, it would probably mean that I have a studio, which would mean I would probably have better gear by then. So what to do with it? Cash converters will give me a tenner for both and I doubt ebay will do much better, and I don't want to part with something that I know can produce a lot of bass! Hmmm, maybe I should find a small room to carpet. [/quote] Thing is it can't produce a lot of bass. It can fill a very small idealised space with quite a lot of midbass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stefBclef Posted April 13, 2012 Author Share Posted April 13, 2012 Right. Well I guess that's that then! Cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete.young Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) [quote name='stefBclef' timestamp='1334320161' post='1614432'] Re powering the thing, can anyone tell me if a power supply with the following specs would do the trick: [/quote] Probably not. You have a 12V 10 ampere power supply and the amplifier requries a 14V 20 amp power supply. It's short on both voltage and power. Edited April 13, 2012 by pete.young Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stefBclef Posted April 13, 2012 Author Share Posted April 13, 2012 [quote name='pete.young' timestamp='1334326804' post='1614636'] Probably not. You have a 12V 10 ampere power supply and the amplifier requries a 14V 20 amp power supply. It's short on both voltage and power. [/quote] Ok...can you please explain where you are getting that "the amplifier requires a 20 amp power supply" from. Also I thought it would work on any voltage from 11V - 16V, just that 14 is optimum. Not the case? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 (edited) [quote name='KiOgon' timestamp='1334303703' post='1613967'] That'll never power it, taken from a review:- [color=#0000ff]"[/color] [left]Let me start by saying that the Alpine MRP M350 is a good amplifier. However, the reported power rating of 700 watts is misleading. While it was possible to generate the 700 watts they claimed, this was at a distortion level in excess of 45%. Also, the power was achieved by drawing nearly 60 amps of current and which was only possible after replacing the included fuses with fuses rated at 50% more current capacity. Basically, this is a nice marketing number is an unrealistic and a unusable specification."[/left] [color=#000000]I don't think you'll get a useful sound from a bass guitar with that setup but worth a try I suppose, can you rig up a car battery for testing?[/color] In fact the more of the review I read the more bullshit is evident & yes as said above you'll need a pre-amp before the power amp. [url="http://www.audiogearreviews.com/reviews/amplifiers/review-alpine_mrp-350.asp"]http://www.audiogear...ine_mrp-350.asp[/url] [/quote] 60A? There are lighthouses that use less than that! A misleading amplifier rating... that kinda rings a bell for some reason... Edited April 13, 2012 by icastle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Foxen Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 That's the thing about low voltages. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 You could use it for this? [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zoTKXXNQIU"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zoTKXXNQIU[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alec Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 [quote name='icastle' timestamp='1334354014' post='1615224'] 60A? There are lighthouses that use less than that! [/quote] Significantly less - Southwold lighhouse uses 3 x 90w lamps - honestly! I've seen them - lower power plus good optics is all they need! Back to the car subs as bass rig... Have you ever heard subs of any kind on their own? Try it - they just produce a nauseous wobble of noise that makes no sense until you add top end into the equation. And that's before you get to the point that car subs will typically be pretty rubbish. Don't underestimate the amount of cabinet work you'd need to do to get aything working, albeit nasty sounding. Sorry! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 [quote name='Alec' timestamp='1334356569' post='1615271'] Significantly less - Southwold lighhouse uses 3 x 90w lamps - honestly! I've seen them - lower power plus good optics is all they need! [/quote] Yep. Some lighthouses used to use 8000W bulbs! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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