advice on head and cab needed

[vinbob]

hi,

i am new to this site but you all seem good guys. Looking at upgrading from a combo amp to separate head and cab, but not sure what works with what. looking at these two, would they go together ok?

Marshall MBC410 cab 600/1200w 4 ohms

Marshall MB450H B-Stock 450w, hybrid amp with ECC83 tube

Could i buy this head and put it with a different cab. I like Peavey amps i have used before so if anyone has any suggestions please help

Thanks

[Guest MoJo]

I found the MBC cabs to be very poorly constructed. A second-hand 410TX or TVX is a much better bet IMO.

[Lozz196]

I`ve had that exact setup, and it was very good indeed. The Classic Channel on the MB450H is really old-school valvey sounding. For pub gigs, in venues of up to 200 capacity I never had any problems being heard, and used it with all eq flat, volume never needed to go over 6 in the largest venue we played.

There have been some problems with the MB range, mainly with the early models, but I`ve had the MB15, MB4210 combo, MB450H amps, & MB410 & MB115 cabs, and not had a problem with any of them. Apparently they weren`t built with the best of care & attention, so when they got into this country, they went out unknowingly. Since then Marshall have had to check them on coming in, and rectify any problems. I suppose there are still models of the early batches still out there. For reference, I started buying this range in 2007, and as said, all of mine were fine.

The head puts out 450 watts at 2 ohms, and 300 watts at 4 ohms, so if you pair it with a cab you prefer, ideally you would want it to be a 4 ohm cab to get the 300 watts. The Peavey 410TVX is a great cab (nicer sounding than the MB410 in my opinion), comes in 4 ohm option, and am sure it would sound great with the Marshall MB450H.

Edited April 14, 2012 by Lozz196

[Guest MoJo]

I'm glad to hear that Lozz. I was mightily disappointed. I know they were a budget Marshall range but I was surprised to find Jim putting his name to these cabs. I only gigged my a couple of times and the vinyl covering was starting to peel off inside the port. They sounded pretty good for the money though

[xgsjx]

[quote name='bassman2790' timestamp='1334421797' post='1616057']
I know they were a budget Marshall range but I was surprised to find Jim putting his name to these cabs.
[/quote]

It wasn't Jim, it was these guys...

[Prime_BASS]

the modern channel is a bit dry and nasty but the valve/classic channel is pretty decent.

I'd stay away from the cabs though! I'd also make the most of it's 2ohm minium load and get 3 smallish 8ohm cabs.
then you have loud, louder and loudest!

[Phil Starr]

I'm probably not going to give you the advice you hoped for.

Why have you chosen this set up? Is it on price, recommendation or sound, possibly for looks or the badge. You say you like Peavey so why not a Peavey?

If you are choosing because you've heard them and love the sound then that's great. Always buy the sound you want. If it is recommendation or other reason then you absolutely have to try out the system before you buy and try out rivals at the same price to check. This can take some time but should be fun.

I personally wouldn't go for a 4x10 at all. They really are [b]very[/b] heavy and not needed for most gigs, you really aren't going to need to be twice as loud as your drummer. If you do need the extra speaker area then two 2x10's are easier to transport and will sound better stacked vertically and take up less performance area which is good in pubs and clubs. Modern 2x10's will put out as much sound as a 4x10 although they usually need a more powerful amp to do so. Amp watts are cheap nowadays though.

The only reason to buy Marshall is the sound, unless this is the main factor look around and get better quality for the price.

[vinbob]

Ok guys,

Thanks for all the advice. The marshall's were suggested by a friend. But i am leaning towards to the Peavey setup. I played one a few months back and it was the sound i have wanted for a while. I am not sure exactly what model it was but i think it was a 4 x 10 cab with a peavey head. But i have been looking at the heads and they are very expensive.

I don't play in pubs more real music venues between 100 and 500 people, so maybe you could suggest what size cab i should get and if there is any other type of head that would go with the cab that isn't too expensive.

Thanks for all the help

[Lozz196]

Well in a 100 - 500 venue I`m assuming there would be a house pa to go through, so all you really need is a cab for on-stage monitoring. That said, if they are big stages, a small cab is going to get lot, unless you have the bass coming through the monitors. With this in mind, I`d still want at least four tens going. If the whatever amp you decide on puts out its total power at 4 ohms, I`d get a 4ohm 410.

I used a Gallien Krueger MB500 through one of the Peavey 410TVX cabs and it sounded great. They are about £450 new, but are the size and weight of half a lap-top - and at 500 watts at 4ohms, very loud.

[neepheid]

[quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1334474646' post='1616510']
I personally wouldn't go for a 4x10 at all. They really are [b]very[/b] heavy and not needed for most gigs, you really aren't going to need to be twice as loud as your drummer.
[/quote]

This is inaccurate. Not all 4x10s are heavy. Some 4x10s with neo speakers can be lifted with one hand. The first time I encountered a Mark Bass 4x10 I nearly threw it in the air when I lifted it with the effort I was used to exerting to lift my old Ashdown ABM 4x10 I sprint up stairs with my Zoot 4x10.

They are bulky, I'll give you that.

[xgsjx]

Do you play through the PA? If so, then you're only gonna need something for hearing yourself.

Important question... What's your budget? I'm guessing around £4-500? If so, go in the "Amps for sale" section on here as you'll get a good set up for not too much outlay.

[vinbob]

Hi guys

Yes i almost always play through a PA system, whats your thoughts on this, (especially sound wise?)

Ashdown Mag 300 Head (300 watts)
[color=#000000]
[font="Arial"][size="2"]Ashdown Mag 4x10 Cab[/size][/font][/color]
[color=#000000]
Someone is selling one on here for around £250/300[/color]

[DirkThrust]

Is that the one that Grubbs is selling? It looks like it's in good condition so provided you like the Ashdown sound it's a good deal.

Edit: Agree with Phil Starr. 2 2x10s is a better option. Budget 4x10s are HEAVY. The MAG is over 70lbs, but if you're young and strong then it's probably not a problem

Edited April 16, 2012 by DirkThrust

[Mr. Foxen]

[quote name='vinbob' timestamp='1334518857' post='1617174']
Thanks for all the advice. The marshall's were suggested by a friend.
[/quote]

Friend that is a guitarist with bad/cheesy tone by any chance?

[vinbob]

Hey

this ashdown MAG 300 and ashdown 4 x 10 cab i am looking. Can i add another Cab to it in the future if i need to?

[xgsjx]

If it's an 8Ω cab, then you can add another 8Ω cab. If it's a 4Ω cab, then no.

I'm with Phil & Dirk re: 2x10s.

[JTUK]

2x210 = old dudes..
1x410 = fit young dude

[vinbob]

im a young dude so 4 x 10 will do me for now, if i find its too much i can always come back on here and trade for a 2 x10 couldn't i. Thanks everyone for your help. much appreciated

vin

[Phil Starr]

You won't need more, seriously. I used to take out a full stack but never needed the second cab. I used to use the bottom cab as a stand for the top one without ever plugging it in. Looked great but otherwise pretty stupid. The thing is you are in a band so making everyone else sound good is pretty important. If you are too loud you'll drown out the drummer who will have to play louder and with less feeling/touch/dynamics so now your rhythm section is ****. You are also very loud so you will be picked up by the vocal mics which will be in front of your bass stack, so the vocals are also ****. If you are louder than your drums then the drums will need to go through the PA and be miked up. They never sound quite as good miked as heard acoustically. If you are miking drums then you should DI the bass meaning you should just use the bass amp as your monitor. (did I just rant out loud there?)

The point of 2x10's is two fold. Most of the time one cab is enough, and space is an issue at nearly every gig. Adding a second 2x10 gives you the volume of a 4x10 but you can choose when to use it.

From a technical point of view 4x10s are rubbish because of the way the speakers interact. They create different path lengths to the listener so they cancel some frequencies and reinforce others and this changes depending upon where you stand. They also beam the sound out in a cone which bypasses the bassist and half the band making the bass inaudible on stage but overwhelming for the audience. Putting two 2x10s up as a line source creates a broad flat fan of sound reducing unwanted reflections off the ceiling and helping the rest of the band and the audience hear the bass at a decent volume. Raising the top speaker to 4-5 feet off the ground brings it to ear height and means the bassist hears the bass clearer than everyone else, wouldn't you prefer that? The worse way of arranging 4 speakers is in an equal sided square. They only did that because amps were so expensive that speakers just had to be loud in the early 70's, hence the 8x10.

Oh, finally if an old fashioned 4x10 costs a similar amount to a 2x10 how much do you think they spent on the drivers?

The only reason for choosing a 4x10 nowadays is because you like the sound of a certain cab, something no-one has talked about very much. That is a good reason for choosing any cab, the idea of substituting a Marshall with an Ashdown suggests you haven't thought about sound yet, they are very different. 4x10's and 2x15's are really cheap second hand because people are getting rid of them so if cash is tight then by all means go and listen to a few. Please don't buy a new 4x10 though, you can do so much better.

[chris_b]

We have been successfully using the "wrong" cabs for 60 years. Buy what you like the sound of.

I don't want to lift 90lb cabs anymore so I use 2 neo 210's, but if you're 20 or 60 the rig has to sound right to you first.

[vinbob]

Hi, thanks for all the advice again. If i was to buy the head i was looking at The ashdown Mag 300 head could i put it with the ashdown 2 x10 cab or maybe even a peavey 2 x 10 cab?

[Lozz196]

That would be fine, what you need to look at to find out if an amp will work with cabs, is the wattage, and the ohms rating.

So an Ashdown MAG 300 will put out 300 watts, at 4 ohms, and probably about 180 watts at 8 ohms.

So, to match cabs, your total ohms can`t go lower than 4 ohms. So this would either be one 4 ohm cab, or two 8 ohm cabs.
Annoyingly/confusingly, 8 ohms + 8 ohms = 4 ohms

Next up, power:
Iif you intend to use one 4 ohm cab, the amp puts out 300 watts at 4 ohms, so the minimum recommendation is a 300 watt cab.
If you intend to use one 8 ohm cab (so getting only approx 180 watts) so the minimum recommendation is a 200 watt cab.
If you intend to use two 8 ohm cabs (so will get the total 300 watts at 4 ohms) each cab needs to be a minimum of 150 watts.

Hope that`s helped.

[JTUK]

[quote name='vinbob' timestamp='1334740287' post='1620398']
Hi, thanks for all the advice again. If i was to buy the head i was looking at The ashdown Mag 300 head could i put it with the ashdown 2 x10 cab or maybe even a peavey 2 x 10 cab?
[/quote]

yes... both consider that an amp putting out 300watts in a 210 will likely blow it up so get an 8ohm 210..then the amp will only be able to drive it at around 180 watts..that is still pushing some cabs though if that is a big bass sound, IMO.
That is why you use 2x210 for louds gigs..it makes the cab impedance of 2 8ohms cabs =4 ohms and therefore allows 300watts output

And also, don't forget, that a lot of amps can not drive below 4 ohms...so if you use 1 cab, it needs to be able to take the full power at 4 ohms....
I am not sure you'll be able to get many 4 ohms 210 anyway..maybe EBS..??

[xgsjx]

I have one of those combos you're talking about. The 2x10.
However, it only looks like that if you have it sitting horizontally. Mine sits vertically, so looks even funnier!